Author Topic: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs  (Read 3640 times)

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Online Mule 11

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2022, 09:34:25 AM »
Answer mine.  Yours falls into the stupid question category and doesn't deserve an answer.  ::)
Stupid?  Then I guess the entire thread falls into the same category. 

It does not matter the why of war, specially once the shooting starts.  We were told to occupy Afghanistan, so we occupied Afghanistan.  We were told to occupy Iraq, so we occupied it too.  Sometimes the soldier has no idea on the why, at least not at the heat of the moment.  We lost thousands of civilians in the 9/11 attack, men, women and children, did that give us license to capture and torture their soldiers (or combatants)?  Now, let's discuss torture, because some bleeding heart will eventually come on here and say we also tortured our prisoners.  All the, known, interrogation tactics I seen used were no more than what they did to us in SERE school, which I do not consider torture.  Though I am sure there may have been some Black sites, no permanent injury was done to any prisoners that I seen or am aware of, mental? Sure, and there may be some weak minded ones that couldn't recover, so it is what it is.  But we never beheaded a single prisoner, or intentionally caused more harm than necessary to meet the objective.  Yes, our weapons dismembered a few, but well, war is hell.  The US has done everything that Russia is accused of doing, including incinerating entire cities.  We have gone to war for reasons that, arguably, turned out to be of our own doing, or that of our allies.  IMO torture is inhumane, and serves no real purpose but to harden the resolve of the enemy giving them no out but to fight to the death.  It happens, in every war, but it is not our policy because as I said, it serves no purpose, and I on a personal level, do not condone it, no matter which side does it or their reasoning for it.
I agree with this and by doing so am also going to be yammered and hammered. So be it. I don’t know if I would or wouldn’t torture cause I can get a bit angry at times. Butt I’m not gonna grab a pair of Pom poms over it...

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2022, 10:26:16 AM »
Answer mine.  Yours falls into the stupid question category and doesn't deserve an answer.  ::)
Stupid?  Then I guess the entire thread falls into the same category. 

It does not matter the why of war, specially once the shooting starts.  We were told to occupy Afghanistan, so we occupied Afghanistan.  We were told to occupy Iraq, so we occupied it too.  Sometimes the soldier has no idea on the why, at least not at the heat of the moment.  We lost thousands of civilians in the 9/11 attack, men, women and children, did that give us license to capture and torture their soldiers (or combatants)?  Now, let's discuss torture, because some bleeding heart will eventually come on here and say we also tortured our prisoners.  All the, known, interrogation tactics I seen used were no more than what they did to us in SERE school, which I do not consider torture.  Though I am sure there may have been some Black sites, no permanent injury was done to any prisoners that I seen or am aware of, mental? Sure, and there may be some weak minded ones that couldn't recover, so it is what it is.  But we never beheaded a single prisoner, or intentionally caused more harm than necessary to meet the objective.  Yes, our weapons dismembered a few, but well, war is hell.  The US has done everything that Russia is accused of doing, including incinerating entire cities.  We have gone to war for reasons that, arguably, turned out to be of our own doing, or that of our allies.  IMO torture is inhumane, and serves no real purpose but to harden the resolve of the enemy giving them no out but to fight to the death.  It happens, in every war, but it is not our policy because as I said, it serves no purpose, and I on a personal level, do not condone it, no matter which side does it or their reasoning for it. 
Well, considering your last post, we agree on some issues, and not so much on others.

It easy to try to  justify military actions if your the "occupier. Your judgment of the Ukrainians treatment of prisoners you compare to American beheadings in Iraq and Afghanistan I find odd.

Whether one agrees or not, the Afghans, and the Iraqis, like the Ukrainians were and are fighting for their families, and their homes, and their way of life.

In Afghanistan, and Iraq, the United States was "the occupier". The "interloper", bombing, and shooting, both enemy and civilian.

Russia is the interloper in the Ukraine. For the Russian soldier to kill and destroy, until he is no longer unable to kill and destroy for whatever reason, to expect humane treatment while standing in the rubble of his captors family, and life, truly is unrealistic.

You speak of the carnage of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq rather casually, and cavalier in terms of the death and destruction caused by the United States military to the civilians of both countries. "War is hell" I believe is how you put it, using a rather worn out phrase.
You seem ok with that, but concerned about prisoner treatment. Strange indeed.

When your part of the war was done you went home. They were left with the loss, and destruction.

I'm not Achilles, and you ain't Spartacus and you might see things differently if you were standing in the ruins of your own life with family members lying around, and the guys that did it were standin there apologizing with their hands up.

So as for the Ukrainian treatment of Russian invaders: I won't judge a man for a fight I'm not in.
I did not try to justify the conflicts I was involved in, as my views have changed a bit from then and now, but as you said, we were the occupiers in Iraq and Afg, so we were in Russia's position then.  If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there".  Yes, I speak cavalierly about it, it is done and over with and there is nothing I could do about it now, and I'll be damned if I am going to dwell on it.  I've lost a few friends, washed the blood out of a few helicopters and vehicles that belonged to my fellow soldiers.  Had to be the one that supported a grieving family while we searched for their lost son at sea, so it would be very easy to justify (in my head) the torture of a few terrorists here and there, but I don't.  I would/will kill a combatant to achieve mission success, but I will not cause undo harm just because I can. 
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
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Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2022, 10:43:48 AM »
Answer mine.  Yours falls into the stupid question category and doesn't deserve an answer.  ::)
Stupid?  Then I guess the entire thread falls into the same category. 

It does not matter the why of war, specially once the shooting starts.  We were told to occupy Afghanistan, so we occupied Afghanistan.  We were told to occupy Iraq, so we occupied it too.  Sometimes the soldier has no idea on the why, at least not at the heat of the moment.  We lost thousands of civilians in the 9/11 attack, men, women and children, did that give us license to capture and torture their soldiers (or combatants)?  Now, let's discuss torture, because some bleeding heart will eventually come on here and say we also tortured our prisoners.  All the, known, interrogation tactics I seen used were no more than what they did to us in SERE school, which I do not consider torture.  Though I am sure there may have been some Black sites, no permanent injury was done to any prisoners that I seen or am aware of, mental? Sure, and there may be some weak minded ones that couldn't recover, so it is what it is.  But we never beheaded a single prisoner, or intentionally caused more harm than necessary to meet the objective.  Yes, our weapons dismembered a few, but well, war is hell.  The US has done everything that Russia is accused of doing, including incinerating entire cities.  We have gone to war for reasons that, arguably, turned out to be of our own doing, or that of our allies.  IMO torture is inhumane, and serves no real purpose but to harden the resolve of the enemy giving them no out but to fight to the death.  It happens, in every war, but it is not our policy because as I said, it serves no purpose, and I on a personal level, do not condone it, no matter which side does it or their reasoning for it. 
Well, considering your last post, we agree on some issues, and not so much on others.

It easy to try to  justify military actions if your the "occupier. Your judgment of the Ukrainians treatment of prisoners you compare to American beheadings in Iraq and Afghanistan I find odd.

Whether one agrees or not, the Afghans, and the Iraqis, like the Ukrainians were and are fighting for their families, and their homes, and their way of life.

In Afghanistan, and Iraq, the United States was "the occupier". The "interloper", bombing, and shooting, both enemy and civilian.

Russia is the interloper in the Ukraine. For the Russian soldier to kill and destroy, until he is no longer unable to kill and destroy for whatever reason, to expect humane treatment while standing in the rubble of his captors family, and life, truly is unrealistic.

You speak of the carnage of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq rather casually, and cavalier in terms of the death and destruction caused by the United States military to the civilians of both countries. "War is hell" I believe is how you put it, using a rather worn out phrase.
You seem ok with that, but concerned about prisoner treatment. Strange indeed.

When your part of the war was done you went home. They were left with the loss, and destruction.

I'm not Achilles, and you ain't Spartacus and you might see things differently if you were standing in the ruins of your own life with family members lying around, and the guys that did it were standin there apologizing with their hands up.

So as for the Ukrainian treatment of Russian invaders: I won't judge a man for a fight I'm not in.
I did not try to justify the conflicts I was involved in, as my views have changed a bit from then and now, but as you said, we were the occupiers in Iraq and Afg, so we were in Russia's position then.  If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there".  Yes, I speak cavalierly about it, it is done and over with and there is nothing I could do about it now, and I'll be damned if I am going to dwell on it.  I've lost a few friends, washed the blood out of a few helicopters and vehicles that belonged to my fellow soldiers.  Had to be the one that supported a grieving family while we searched for their lost son at sea, so it would be very easy to justify (in my head) the torture of a few terrorists here and there, but I don't.  I would/will kill a combatant to achieve mission success, but I will not cause undo harm just because I can.

Well, your "stand to reason" on my saying beheaded Americans was OK, which I did not say, puts you in the full of BS category on that particular topic.  ;)

And I'm pretty sure my youngest boy saw at least as much combat in his three deployments to Afghanistan, and Iraq as you likely did, if you  actually saw any. And in my 21 year career I expect I saw as much death as you did, and I also lost some friends along the way, while they were doing their job. Protecting people.

Innocents, are innocent regardless of the cause. Mine was the difference between right and wrong, and the laws of the State of Texas, and the Constitution. yours was politics and money which you've seemed to glorify your part, at least in your own mind.

But in the end, the Russian government, and military, are an enemy of the United States  and I don't give two (censored word) what the Ukraine does to'em.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2022, 11:29:28 AM »
Well, your "stand to reason" on my saying beheaded Americans was OK, which I did not say, puts you in the full of BS category on that particular topic.  ;)

And I'm pretty sure my youngest boy saw at least as much combat in his three deployments to Afghanistan, and Iraq as you likely did, if you  actually saw any. And in my 21 year career I expect I saw as much death as you did, and I also lost some friends along the way, while they were doing their job. Protecting people.

Innocents, are innocent regardless of the cause. Mine was the difference between right and wrong, and the laws of the State of Texas, and the Constitution. yours was politics and money which you've seemed to glorify your part, at least in your own mind.

But in the end, the Russian government, and military, are an enemy of the United States  and I don't give two (censored word) what the Ukraine does to'em.
Your son may have witnessed more, and hope he doesn't have to anymore, same for you, but that does not change anything.  Your reasoning doesn't jive with your views that it is ok for Russians to be treated as they may, or may not, be treated.  They are the occupiers, we were the occupiers, they are killing, we killed, men, women, and children.  Yes, were are taught they are the enemy, but to think that others do not see us as the enemy is preposterous.  Innocents were and will die, both here and abroad, in conflicts, and due to crime, etc., and there is not a danged thing we could do about it. 

Quote
I consider destroying ones home, and neighborhood, and putting the wife, children, and grandparents out in the cold without food, water, or shelter "torture and suffering". And that's what the Russian soldiers are doing to the civilian population. To hell with'em.
These Russian soldiers had no problem torturing these families until they got captured.  I don't believe in "civilized war".
The Russians should be grateful they aren't attacking Comanches, or Apaches..

Wanna be an enemy? The rules are, there ain't no rules.
Please explain why I should not think that you are ok for the invaded to torture the soldiers of the invader with what you stated above?  BTW, I don't care what they are doing to each other over there, that is a fight between them and we, the US, should keep the hell out of it.  But I do feel that we, the US and NATO, instigated this and are very much responsible for this, maybe even more so than Russia.  It is much akin to having an enemy State trying to get Mexico, Canada or Cuba into the now defunct Warsaw Pact or the like and arming them. 
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~

Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2022, 11:45:32 AM »
Well, your "stand to reason" on my saying beheaded Americans was OK, which I did not say, puts you in the full of BS category on that particular topic.  ;)

And I'm pretty sure my youngest boy saw at least as much combat in his three deployments to Afghanistan, and Iraq as you likely did, if you  actually saw any. And in my 21 year career I expect I saw as much death as you did, and I also lost some friends along the way, while they were doing their job. Protecting people.

Innocents, are innocent regardless of the cause. Mine was the difference between right and wrong, and the laws of the State of Texas, and the Constitution. yours was politics and money which you've seemed to glorify your part, at least in your own mind.

But in the end, the Russian government, and military, are an enemy of the United States  and I don't give two (censored word) what the Ukraine does to'em.
Your son may have witnessed more, and hope he doesn't have to anymore, same for you, but that does not change anything.  Your reasoning doesn't jive with your views that it is ok for Russians to be treated as they may, or may not, be treated.  They are the occupiers, we were the occupiers, they are killing, we killed, men, women, and children.  Yes, were are taught they are the enemy, but to think that others do not see us as the enemy is preposterous.  Innocents were and will die, both here and abroad, in conflicts, and due to crime, etc., and there is not a danged thing we could do about it. 

Quote
I consider destroying ones home, and neighborhood, and putting the wife, children, and grandparents out in the cold without food, water, or shelter "torture and suffering". And that's what the Russian soldiers are doing to the civilian population. To hell with'em.
These Russian soldiers had no problem torturing these families until they got captured.  I don't believe in "civilized war".
The Russians should be grateful they aren't attacking Comanches, or Apaches..

Wanna be an enemy? The rules are, there ain't no rules.
Please explain why I should not think that you are ok for the invaded to torture the soldiers of the invader with what you stated above?  BTW, I don't care what they are doing to each other over there, that is a fight between them and we, the US, should keep the hell out of it.  But I do feel that we, the US and NATO, instigated this and are very much responsible for this, maybe even more so than Russia.  It is much akin to having an enemy State trying to get Mexico, Canada or Cuba into the now defunct Warsaw Pact or the like and arming them.

I'm really not concerned with what you think. I spoke plain English in my view of Ukrainians torturing Russians. I don't blame'em for what they're doing to Russians considering what the Russians have done to them.

It ain't our war, the Russians aren't our friends, and I don't care. "War is Hell" ;)

All of y'all that are so damned concerned about how Russian pows are treated,  you better start worrying about what's coming across your own southern border.

You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Online Mule 11

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2022, 12:54:22 PM »
I see the Pom poms were dropped in favor of deflection...

Offline DDZ

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2022, 01:39:04 AM »
Humane treatment of prisoners and detainees is a fundamental part of American ideals and values. I think torture violates our core values as a nation. Saying its okay for Ukraine's to torture Russians because they did it to them, would be no different than condoning torture by our troops because some of them had been tortured. Which has happened in wars, but our country never permitted it.  Torture accomplishes nothing.  Its no more than an idea of revenge.

Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2022, 02:03:55 AM »
Quote
If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there"
  Fact is our captured soldiers were tortured in about every conflict weve been in. I dont know of one where we fought against a country that recognized or followed the geneva convention rules. I say F them all. Why should we treat there soldiers like they are in some hotel when our sit in filth and are starved and beaten.
blue lives matter

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2022, 03:09:02 AM »
Quote
If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there"
  Fact is our captured soldiers were tortured in about every conflict weve been in. I dont know of one where we fought against a country that recognized or followed the geneva convention rules. I say F them all. Why should we treat there soldiers like they are in some hotel when our sit in filth and are starved and beaten.


Still doesn't make it right.  How about Do unto others as you would have others do unto you? Not as others do unto you. We all know atrocities are going to happen in war. Most are going to get away with it. "Both sides"  Some day we will be judged for our actions. On that day, will you say F them all?

Look, if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night, you are going to try and take that person or persons out. It would be your duty and right to protect yourself and family. If the intruder was no longer a threat, and still alive but controlled, would you feel justified in say shooting them in the legs or beating them until the Cops arrived?
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2022, 03:13:17 AM »
Fire bomb'em. Shoot'em, Blow'em up. Give'em brain damage with concussion grenades, and bombs, physically maim them for life, but please don't torture'em.

I'm not for torture either, but I'm not for political wars, or trained and equipped soldiers attacking and killing civilian populations. Which is exactly what the Russian army is doing. They get what they get.

Meanwhile, the Texas border gets farther out of hand.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2022, 03:20:11 AM »
Quote
If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there"
  Fact is our captured soldiers were tortured in about every conflict we've been in. I don't know of one where we fought against a country that recognized or followed the Geneva convention rules. I say F them all. Why should we treat there soldiers like they are in some hotel when our sit in filth and are starved and beaten.
I for one do not call for them to be treated like our criminals, which I feel are coddled.  But I do not feel treating them poorly is in our best interest.  When we invaded Iraq, the first time, we had all sorts of prisoners tell us they surrendered because they heard we don't mistreat our POWs.  You let it get out that they are in for torture once captured, you will find their resistance increase multifold, which will increase our casualties (and theirs) in the long run.  And again, for the record, I do not consider the interrogation techniques I am aware of, including sleep deprivation, confinement in tiny cells and water boarding, to be torture.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
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Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2022, 03:27:48 AM »
The one major factor concerning this Ukrainian invasion by Russia is it ain't our call for either side. They're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Our own southern border invasion however, is our call, and while everyone philosophies about Ukraine only Texans seem care about our own invasion.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2022, 03:32:45 AM »
  There's a big difference between what Ukraine is doing to russians than what "I" would do.  I don't give a chit what THEY are doing, I care about MY actions, so let them handle it anyway they want.

  IF russians come here, I'm ALSO going to handle it any way I want!

  Would treating them like wolves and gut shooting them, be torture???

  DM

Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2022, 03:51:21 AM »
  There's a big difference between what Ukraine is doing to russians than what "I" would do.  I don't give a chit what THEY are doing, I care about MY actions, so let them handle it anyway they want.

  IF russians come here, I'm ALSO going to handle it any way I want!

  Would treating them like wolves and gut shooting them, be torture???

  DM

Which has been my point all along. Maybe you just said it better.

Meanwhile, the United States Border Patrol announced this morning that illegal crossings has set an all time record this month since records have been kept.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2022, 04:15:15 AM »
  There's a big difference between what Ukraine is doing to russians than what "I" would do.  I don't give a chit what THEY are doing, I care about MY actions, so let them handle it anyway they want.

  IF russians come here, I'm ALSO going to handle it any way I want!

  Would treating them like wolves and gut shooting them, be torture???

  DM
I wouldn't intentionally gut shoot anything.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
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Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2022, 04:26:33 AM »
I think the problem with many discussions on line is, every single word said is scrutinized looking for fault. It isn't productive, and everyone does it.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2022, 05:43:50 AM »
I think the problem with many discussions on line is, every single word said is scrutinized looking for fault. It isn't productive, and everyone does it.
Words have meaning, when speaking or writing.  While I don't always get my point across, I always attempt to say what I mean, and mean what I say.  If I am called out about something I write, I will try and make it more understandable, and my opinion can be swayed with more information, I am open to opposing views in case I don't have pertinent information.  Such as if I were to find out that the torture was to get the code to a nuke about to go off or something akin to that. 
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2022, 09:47:12 AM »
If Russia has knocked out most of their bases, why are they not in control of the country? Spoiler alert. They have not…

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2022, 09:59:13 AM »
and my opinion can be swayed with more information, I am open to opposing views in case I don't have pertinent information.  Such as if I were to find out that the torture was to get the code to a nuke about to go off or something akin to that.
  OK then, here's your more info: some guys will gut shoot the wolves, so they will run off before dieing and then the DNR won't come and nuke you!  lol

  DM
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Online Mule 11

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2022, 12:32:08 PM »
I’m gonna agree with the 1 percenter’s because thee 99 percenters throughout history have always been proven to be full of their own shatttt.

Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2022, 02:42:34 PM »
and my opinion can be swayed with more information, I am open to opposing views in case I don't have pertinent information.  Such as if I were to find out that the torture was to get the code to a nuke about to go off or something akin to that.
  OK then, here's your more info: some guys will gut shoot the wolves, so they will run off before dieing and then the DNR won't come and nuke you!  lol

  DM
Meh, it's easier to hide your problems if you SSS.
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Online Mule 11

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2022, 02:46:22 PM »
and my opinion can be swayed with more information, I am open to opposing views in case I don't have pertinent information.  Such as if I were to find out that the torture was to get the code to a nuke about to go off or something akin to that.
  OK then, here's your more info: some guys will gut shoot the wolves, so they will run off before dieing and then the DNR won't come and nuke you!  lol

  DM
Meh, it's easier to hide your problems if you SSS.
Yep. Those that do, don’t talk about it... FOS.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2022, 11:09:15 PM »
Sorry but im 65 not 25 and if someone breaks into my house im not wrestling them to the ground to control them and neither is my wife. I wonder two if some russian came to your door and killed your kid or grandkid if your attitude wouldnt change. Its easy to make statements when its happening half a world apart from you to someone elses kids. Kill my granddaughter and youd be a lucky son of a bitch if all i did was shoot you in the leg. How about something else the bible says. AN EYE FOR AN EYE. Read you old testament and youll see that God himself wasnt to kind to those who offended him. So nope on judgement day i wont appologize for causing some pain to someone thats murdered someone in my family. I wouldnt apologize for putting a bullet in someone that was trying to kill your family
 that could care less about how much they or your family would suffer either. If i did think that way i wouldnt carry a gun.   
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If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there"
  Fact is our captured soldiers were tortured in about every conflict weve been in. I dont know of one where we fought against a country that recognized or followed the geneva convention rules. I say F them all. Why should we treat there soldiers like they are in some hotel when our sit in filth and are starved and beaten.


Still doesn't make it right.  How about Do unto others as you would have others do unto you? Not as others do unto you. We all know atrocities are going to happen in war. Most are going to get away with it. "Both sides"  Some day we will be judged for our actions. On that day, will you say F them all?

Look, if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night, you are going to try and take that person or persons out. It would be your duty and right to protect yourself and family. If the intruder was no longer a threat, and still alive but controlled, would you feel justified in say shooting them in the legs or beating them until the Cops arrived?
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2022, 11:14:30 PM »
yes sir. It all reminds me of the libeals wanting to put flowers in the hair of our police. To send them to sensitivity training. Let prisoners go to come back and do the same thing again. War isnt a video game. Its nasty business. The idea of it is to kill or mame the other side period so they dont come back tomorrow and kill you or your buddy. Ill leave the sensitivity training to the liberal college professors.
Fire bomb'em. Shoot'em, Blow'em up. Give'em brain damage with concussion grenades, and bombs, physically maim them for life, but please don't torture'em.

I'm not for torture either, but I'm not for political wars, or trained and equipped soldiers attacking and killing civilian populations. Which is exactly what the Russian army is doing. They get what they get.

Meanwhile, the Texas border gets farther out of hand.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2022, 11:28:54 PM »
What happens when you turn that around and OUR troops know they will be treated better and fed better if they surrender. Im ot ok with our troops being tortured but the fact of life is they are and were in about every conflict weve been in. Do you think that us or unkraine playing nice with prisoners would make putin think "boy these are nice guy, why am i even killing them" Ive been through evasion and capture training. If you think sleep deprivation, starving or water boarding isnt torture then youve never experienced it. Enough of it and youd beg for a bullet. There is no more powerful torture then hunger or thirst. Isolation and sleep deprivations are no picnic either and water boarding is pure torture  mentally and physically. Those in fact are the most prevalent ways prisoners are tortured. 
Quote
If you feel that the Ukrainians are justified in torturing Russian soldiers, then it stands to reason that you are fine with the torture of US soldiers in practically every conflict we have been in because they have always been "over there"
  Fact is our captured soldiers were tortured in about every conflict we've been in. I don't know of one where we fought against a country that recognized or followed the Geneva convention rules. I say F them all. Why should we treat there soldiers like they are in some hotel when our sit in filth and are starved and beaten.
I for one do not call for them to be treated like our criminals, which I feel are coddled.  But I do not feel treating them poorly is in our best interest.  When we invaded Iraq, the first time, we had all sorts of prisoners tell us they surrendered because they heard we don't mistreat our POWs.  You let it get out that they are in for torture once captured, you will find their resistance increase multifold, which will increase our casualties (and theirs) in the long run.  And again, for the record, I do not consider the interrogation techniques I am aware of, including sleep deprivation, confinement in tiny cells and water boarding, to be torture.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2022, 03:07:00 AM »
wouldnt know. I wouldnt waste 2 seconds watching sputnik news or some russian government controlled news channel. About as non biased as cnn
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Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2022, 03:30:55 AM »
What happens when you turn that around and OUR troops know they will be treated better and fed better if they surrender. I'm not ok with our troops being tortured but the fact of life is they are and were in about every conflict we've been in. Do you think that us or Ukraine playing nice with prisoners would make Putin think "boy these are nice guy, why am i even killing them" I've been through evasion and capture training. If you think sleep deprivation, starving or water boarding isn't torture then you've never experienced it. Enough of it and you'd beg for a bullet. There is no more powerful torture then hunger or thirst. Isolation and sleep deprivations are no picnic either and water boarding is pure torture  mentally and physically. Those in fact are the most prevalent ways prisoners are tortured. 
I would prefer that any of our (or any other's) captured troops be treated humanely, not tortured, again, I see no upside to torture.  And as a matter of fact, I have experienced those techniques, more than once, and you are correct, they aren't no picnic.  To my knowledge, we have not intentionally starved or dehydrated anyone in captivity, the rest you can recover from unless you are too weak minded to do so.  I am not saying to treat them kindly, just humanely. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2022, 03:49:36 AM »
This isn't addressed to anyone. This is how  I feel personally, having seen firsthand families suffering personal loss of family members, children, at the hands of criminals. I have family members, and friends that were actual combatants in wars ranging from WWII, to Vietnam, to Afghanistan, and Iraq. Torture, and the killing of innocents was prevalent in their worlds.

My now deceased uncle never talked about earning 7 Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart during the Philippines invasions he was on. He was almost 90 before we learned he had those medals.

What he talked about was, pows beaten and starved to the point that he would carry them like small children, two at at time to trucks and jeeps when the camps were liberated.

The Geneva Convention is a "pipe dream" created by people NOT doing the fighting to make war appear more "humane".

When the enemy hits back, you hit back harder. You punish/torture them for their resistance.
You bomb their neighborhoods and towns into powder, kill their families, but when you capture what's left, you treat them humanely , and you feel better about what? Yourself?

When I think about how I might feel if a group of foriegn men came in and destroyed my home, and killed my family, I can't imagine the rage I likely would feel. To think differently, without ever having experienced such trauma personally, is unrealistic.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2022, 06:31:16 AM »
yup its easy to judge when it doesnt effect you. I had an uncle. My dads oldest brother. He was a pow in germany and came home missing a leg. He was a tough sob and ran his small farm the rest of his life with one leg. Ask him what he thinks about how we should treat prisoners. Hed would have gladly kick the crap out of them himself. F with or hurt my family and the gloves come off PERIOD. Shot the guy standing next to me in a fire fight and youd be lucky if all you got twas tortured. Step a foot in this country and kill americans and ill sure show you no mercy. Like i said anyone that disagrees sure has no reason to carry a gun on them. Maybe when they shoot your wife you can pray them away.
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Offline O-mega

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Re: Ukrainian soldiers torture Russian POWs
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2022, 07:43:02 AM »
A lot of assumptions no?  My neighbor's cousin's friend also went through all that.  SMH, I won't get into all this, you guys just defend us when the time comes.
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