Sherman's March

[phalanx]

I also like the idea of making EVERY immigrant who comes into his country serve 2 years in the military.

I disagree with that idea as much as the one that all should serve I have already commented on.

Can you imagine the mess it would be to manage such a military where most of them didn't even speak English and where they didn't even all speak the same language. You'd need interpreters who spoke a dozen or more languages to translate to them.

Would you like to be an English speaking REAL American in such an army in war time with those folks as your fellow soldiers and your life depending on them understanding the orders  you are all given?

Sorry we need to put more thought into such plans.

What is needed is to treat the invasion that is going on at our southern border for what it is and shoot them down as the invade our territory. I bet it wouldn't take more than a few days of that to put a stop to the invading army crossing to US territory.

A lot of military’s down through history had that Language problem. Namely the Romans which started losing battles due to this, or solders that still had loyalty to where ever it was they came from. Especially Gaul which is now France.

[ironglow]

A very northern version of what caused the industrialized north with the aid of an inexperienced politician bought and paid for to attack and kill almost one million men, women, and children. Destroy their economy, and steal their property. 

   More or less the universal version, with partisanship placed aside.  Much as you may not like it, the outcome barring some kind of miracle, was pre-ordained.
  "Inexperienced politician"...we need more of those today..seems we have  too many politicia=ns with far too much "experience'.  Personally, I consider an inexperienced politician to be a benefit, e.g. Donald trump..
   No indication that Lincoln was "bought and paid for".  In any case, the Lincoln family did not come out filthy rich...like many of today's most "experienced" politicians.

   The facts are just about as presented...but of course, if you have a different, more plausible scenario..let's have it !  ..But give us the straight facts, and not a cart load of accusations and complaints.

  So here's the challenge....  "Why the Confederacy should have won"., give it your best shot..

[Lloyd Smale]

south didnt have to enter or start the war (whichever it was and i wont argue it because theres to many stories and i wasnt there) they chose to fight and thats sure not a criticism of them. But as its been well documented both sides didnt play nice. Both side committed (again DOCUMENTED) war crimes. Back then there was no Geneva convention so there really was no rules. LIke we said about unkraine kill our family's and we will kill you. That happened on both sides. Sometimes even by members of the same family. I dont know why its drug through the mud. It was a criminal war right from the get go. It was orchestrated by rich people on both side and just like today the middle class and the lower class do all the dying so that they profit from it.

If someone with even a little bit of money had to fight they fought with gold on there shoulder boards. the more money you had the more gold they gave you. There wasnt but a few officers on either side that knew anymore then they were taught in the academy and many that had money didnt even have to go to an academy. It was the worse case of fighting for the wealthy and politicaly motivated criminals this country ever saw or will see again. Id bet not one in a thousand soldiers on either side really knew the big picture. Just some bs and lies that there superiors fed them.

It should be forgotten because when a country is divided into by the rich and powerful and good men on both sides died for them I find little pride in that. Its why you will probably never hear someone from the north bragging that we won. there WAS NO WINNERS. Can you imagine china and russia licking there lips today if it happened again. We have a much bigger thing to worry about today. Its the liberals trying to ruin this country both north and south. Thats who i have a fight with not the south. Why would i even worry about what state or region someone is from. As long as they love america and are trying to make it better not trying destroy then there my brother. Even if there from california. There are dammed good people and total pieces of crap in every state. Right up to the most powerful  political positions  in those states. Thats the war of aggression we need be fighting now. Not lamenting over a war nobodys even alive that fought in it or  were even alive at the time. Funny how we forgive germany and japan but wont forgive our own countrymen

[BUGEYE]

I do believe that some folks are still living with the propaganda still ringing in their ears.
A thorough search will open eyes,  unless those closed eyed folks just refuse to hear the truth.

All of the south's grievances were being debated in congress.
Did the south think that one little fort and a unarmed ship was gonna shoot'em down.
No, it was the hot headed SC militia that had ants in their drawers and were itching for a fight, full of hate, (like they still are today) and refused to listen to the ONE LEVEL HEAD IN THE SOUTH, Robert E. Lee.

Most southerners yell that the war was not about slavery, but, even Lee thought it was.
That'll come out in your research, that is, if you want the truth.
Little blurb below about it.  He resigned his Union commission so he wouldn't have to fight countrymen.
*******************************************************************************

Although he felt slavery in the abstract was a bad thing, he blamed the national conflict on abolitionists, and accepted the pro-slavery policies of the Confederacy. He chose to fight to defend his homeland.

[BUGEYE]

“Robert E Lee is to this day the only person to pass through the US Military Academy at West Point without a single demerit. In the Mexican War General Winfield Scott called him “the greatest soldier I’ve ever seen.” As an Army Engineer he re-routed the Mississippi River and saved the city of St Louis. When he inherited slaves from his father in law, he educated them and set them free, and he referred
to slavery as “a political and moral evil”.

He turned down Lincoln’s offer to Command the US Army that would invade the South and his home State of Virginia even though leading that Army would have certainly brought him international fame and likely the presidency. He instead offered his sword to Virginia and fought against that invasion for four years leading an Army that was vastly outnumbered, out supplied and out fed. After the war, as the most beloved figure on either side of the war, he turned down all of the opportunities that would have enriched him by refusing to sell his family name.

He chose instead to take a job with meager pay at Washington College because he knew that rebuilding the country meant that we needed to raise men of high honor and character. His first act as Dean of the College was to build a Chapel.

On Lee’s last visit to Richmond, a lady approached General Lee with an infant in her arms and asked “Would you please hold my baby?” General Lee took the child, looked the woman in the eye and said “you must teach him to deny himself.” Biographer Douglas Southall Freeman
pointed out that this one statement characterized the entirety of how General Lee lived.

As the end of his life was approaching Robert E Lee was asked, with all of his accomplishments, what should his headstone say. He answered! “that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for my salvation.”

That a monument to this man has been taken down is a monument itself. The barren space where his memorial stood is a testament to the depraved depths to which the morality and character of our society has fallen.”

[Dee]

I see no use in debate of northern aggression with two long since indoctrinated northerners whom no matter the issue will be in agreement, that they're both right.  Always.
Georgia has my condolences. 

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry you hold animosity toward me. I dont you. Your an American just like me and the feelings arent returned. Show me in some way that YOUR life was effected by that war and that you suffer today because of it and you may sway me. But this south will rise again bs is just that. The south rose before you were born and is just as prosperous as the north today. So much so that you believe texas can make it on its own. I know for a fact michigan cant or for that matter any state in the north. Some day i hope you realize that we are all on the same side. That our enemys today arent each other there the liberals trying to ruin this country and they live in EVERY state. 

I see no use in debate of northern aggression with two long since indoctrinated northerners whom no matter the issue will be in agreement, that they're both right.  Always.
Georgia has my condolences. 

[Dee]

sorry you hold animosity toward me. I dont you. Your an American just like me and the feelings arent returned. Show me in some way that YOUR life was effected by that war and that you suffer today because of it and you may sway me. But this south will rise again bs is just that. The south rose before you were born and is just as prosperous as the north today. So much so that you believe texas can make it on its own. I know for a fact michigan cant or for that matter any state in the north. Some day i hope you realize that we are all on the same side. That our enemys today arent each other there the liberals trying to ruin this country and they live in EVERY state. 

I see no use in debate of northern aggression with two long since indoctrinated northerners whom no matter the issue will be in agreement, that they're both right.  Always.
Georgia has my condolences. 

 

Well Lloyd I think you need to re-read my post, because I wasn't addressing you. 

[Lloyd Smale]

my appology. I shouldnt have assumed

[Dee]

my appology. I shouldnt have assumed

LOL, no apology necessary, I've got a couple a union sympathizers wantin to edumacate me. 

[BUGEYE]

sorry you hold animosity toward me. I dont you. Your an American just like me and the feelings arent returned. Show me in some way that YOUR life was effected by that war and that you suffer today because of it and you may sway me. But this south will rise again bs is just that. The south rose before you were born and is just as prosperous as the north today. So much so that you believe texas can make it on its own. I know for a fact michigan cant or for that matter any state in the north. Some day i hope you realize that we are all on the same side. That our enemys today arent each other there the liberals trying to ruin this country and they live in EVERY state.

Very well said.
Most folks get it, but a small minority won't or are not smart enough to read history and understand it.

[Dee]

sorry you hold animosity toward me. I dont you. Your an American just like me and the feelings arent returned. Show me in some way that YOUR life was effected by that war and that you suffer today because of it and you may sway me. But this south will rise again bs is just that. The south rose before you were born and is just as prosperous as the north today. So much so that you believe texas can make it on its own. I know for a fact michigan cant or for that matter any state in the north. Some day i hope you realize that we are all on the same side. That our enemys today arent each other there the liberals trying to ruin this country and they live in EVERY state.

Very well said.
Most folks get it, but a small minority won't or are not smart enough to read history and understand it.

Agreed, there is always a certain percentage of people that are unable to decipher the difference between history, and propaganda dueto a lack of brain matter, but will instead follow others blindly, whom are equally in the dark. 

[BUGEYE]

Agreed, there is always a certain percentage of people that are unable to decipher the difference between history, and propaganda, but will instead follow others blindly, wh are equally in the dark. 

Well now, you finally agreed that all those southern boys fell prey to the propaganda of the cotton growers of the south.
the north didn't have that propaganda, they just drafted those hapless saps to go kill rebels.

But like Lloyd says, we need to get along, after all, we're all related.
When the yanks came and whupped up on y'all, they raped all the women and girls who were impregnated and birthed half yankee half rebel babies.  so you are part yankee.

[Dee]

Agreed, there is always a certain percentage of people that are unable to decipher the difference between history, and propaganda, but will instead follow others blindly, wh are equally in the dark. 

Well now, you finally agreed that all those southern boys fell prey to the propaganda of the cotton growers of the south.
the north didn't have that propaganda, they just drafted those hapless saps to go kill rebels.

But like Lloyd says, we need to get along, after all, we're all related.
When the yanks came and whupped up on y'all, they raped all the women and girls who were impregnated and birthed half yankee half rebel babies.  so you are part yankee.

That funny right  there. Everybody knows Lincoln was as queer as a football bat, so it stands to reason most of the Yankee army was queer also.   

[BUGEYE]

Lincoln may very well have been gay, but does that make all yankees gay??
Going by that, ALL Texans are gay.
Here's a list of gay Texans, the rest of you haven't come out yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_people_from_Texas

[Dee]

LMQO! Does ironglow know your freelancing on your own?

[Lloyd Smale]

end it like men. 10 paces turn and shoot Oh for the good old days

[Bob Riebe]

Bill is there a good reason this thread has not been closed?

[Lloyd Smale]

why? were big boys here and dont need bill to babysit. What really sucks is on other forums you have to dance around like a ballerina worrying your going to hurt someones fragile feelings. If someone feels they were attacked beyond what they can handle lets let them pm bill. Dont know about you but the last thing i think we need is unneeded censorship here. 

[Bob Riebe]

Childish insults is the work of snot faced punks.

[ironglow]

I see no use in debate of northern aggression with two long since indoctrinated northerners whom no matter the issue will be in agreement, that they're both right.  Always.
Georgia has my condolences. 

  ..Or do you not have a plausible reply?

[BUGEYE]

why? were big boys here and dont need bill to babysit. What really sucks is on other forums you have to dance around like a ballerina worrying your going to hurt someones fragile feelings. If someone feels they were attacked beyond what they can handle lets let them pm bill. Dont know about you but the last thing i think we need is unneeded censorship here.

Good post.

[VA Rifleman]

Good post.

Lloyd has several good posts in this thread. He suggests, we gentlemen from the North and South have more important fish to fry.

The battle of Atlanta? Stacy Abrams. Kemp, Purdue, Raffensperge, Warnock and Walker.

[BUGEYE]

Good post.

Lloyd has several good posts in this thread. He suggests, we gentlemen from the North and South have more important fish to fry.

The battle of Atlanta? Stacy Abrams. Kemp, Purdue, Raffensperge, Warnock and Walker.

This is absolutely spot on.

[ironglow]

Good post.

Lloyd has several good posts in this thread. He suggests, we gentlemen from the North and South have more important fish to fry.

The battle of Atlanta? Stacy Abrams. Kemp, Purdue, Raffensperge, Warnock and Walker.

  I agree with the above statement..However, as gentlemen, after I have presented historical data backed by solid logic, and somebody says I am all wrong, they then should use the same type logic and data to show me my mistake.
  There should be no need between gentlemen for snide remarks or accusations..just show me and others, where I am wrong..

[BUGEYE]

Good post.

Lloyd has several good posts in this thread. He suggests, we gentlemen from the North and South have more important fish to fry.

The battle of Atlanta? Stacy Abrams. Kemp, Purdue, Raffensperge, Warnock and Walker.

  I agree with the above statement..However, as gentlemen, after I have presented historical data backed by solid logic, and somebody says I am all wrong, they then should use the same type logic and data to show me my mistake.
  There should be no need between gentlemen for snide remarks or accusations..just show me and others, where I am wrong..

Well said, and, history proves what I’ve said.
Every time a person yells about the north starting the war, I see this little bow legged Kentucky Colonel saying
“FORGET HELL.”

[Lloyd Smale]

did someone insult you bob? Lighten up.  Seems to me calling members snot faced punks is an insult in itself. Big difference in being passionate about your opinion and being childish.

Childish insults is the work of snot faced punks.

[ironglow]

did someone insult you bob? Lighten up.  Seems to me calling members snot faced punks is an insult in itself. Big difference in being passionate about your opinion and being childish.

Childish insults is the work of snot faced punks.

   Lloyd;
   Did you miss this accusation in post #41?  That was well before Bob posted in # 49  !

  "Agreed, there is always a certain percentage of people that are unable to decipher the difference between history, and propaganda dueto a lack of brain matter, but will instead follow others blindly, whom are equally in the dark."

   ..And speaking obliquely, doesn't hide who he is addressing. 
 
   Is it just possible that this is what Bob was addressing in his post?
   
  I have lived for years at a time in both the north and the south, and each has features that I have learned to appreciate.
  One item that looms large, is not to insult the people you are living among, or deal with daily.

  For instance, some places where i have lived in the south folks speak more slowly.   Unlike some however, I never equated that with any slower thought process, since an equal number of brilliant people hail from both north and south of the Mason/Dixon line.  In any case, after a  couple years , I adjusted my own speech to match the local speech patterns.
  Besides I also think that often people in the north speak too fast, not properly enunciating their words.

  Sherman's march.. I expect that just as with any invading army, there were some bad actors. and even some atrocities, but I suggest such were relatively rare.
 
  Each conflict is marked by propaganda efforts by both sides, and often the conquered side, if they are allowed to continue and carry their grudges and hate at coming up short, will build upon any incident, in order to explain the uncomfortable situation they find themselves in.

  Sherman himself was quoted saying.."War is Hell !"
    There is little doubt had they the opportunity, Longstreet may have made a "March through Pennsylvania"..  They tried starting in Gettysburg, but came up short.

  Once Sherman began his inexorable march, considering how he had superior numbers of troops and a very adequate supply train..the outcome was almost pre-ordained.
   
   I in no way discount the courage and tenacity of the southern troops!  Most of the time they were fighting on empty bellies and with a limited arsenal and ammo.

  The American patriots at Valley Forge is the heritage of all American troops, north or south..  The Southern troops often revived that memory, in that they often had to forage for rations.

     So, the challenge still stands; forget sentimental values and explain why the south could have won over the long haul.

  From these foraging experiences came this song among Confederate veterans;  Enjoy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BcK3vR6bEc   

     

 

[BUGEYE]

did someone insult you bob? Lighten up.  Seems to me calling members snot faced punks is an insult in itself. Big difference in being passionate about your opinion and being childish.

Childish insults is the work of snot faced punks.

LOL, Touche' there Lloyd. 

[Lloyd Smale]

point is if you insult me ill deal with it. If you insult someone else its there business not mine. Bill and matt are the moderators here. Ill leave it to them.

did someone insult you bob? Lighten up.  Seems to me calling members snot faced punks is an insult in itself. Big difference in being passionate about your opinion and being childish.

Childish insults is the work of snot faced punks.

   Lloyd;
   Did you miss this accusation in post #41?  That was well before Bob posted in # 49  !

  "Agreed, there is always a certain percentage of people that are unable to decipher the difference between history, and propaganda dueto a lack of brain matter, but will instead follow others blindly, whom are equally in the dark."

   ..And speaking obliquely, doesn't hide who he is addressing. 
 
   Is it just possible that this is what Bob was addressing in his post?
   
  I have lived for years at a time in both the north and the south, and each has features that I have learned to appreciate.
  One item that looms large, is not to insult the people you are living among, or deal with daily.

  For instance, some places where i have lived in the south folks speak more slowly.   Unlike some however, I never equated that with any slower thought process, since an equal number of brilliant people hail from both north and south of the Mason/Dixon line.  In any case, after a  couple years , I adjusted my own speech to match the local speech patterns.
  Besides I also think that often people in the north speak too fast, not properly enunciating their words.

  Sherman's march.. I expect that just as with any invading army, there were some bad actors. and even some atrocities, but I suggest such were relatively rare.
 
  Each conflict is marked by propaganda efforts by both sides, and often the conquered side, if they are allowed to continue and carry their grudges and hate at coming up short, will build upon any incident, in order to explain the uncomfortable situation they find themselves in.

  Sherman himself was quoted saying.."War is Hell !"
    There is little doubt had they the opportunity, Longstreet may have made a "March through Pennsylvania"..  They tried starting in Gettysburg, but came up short.

  Once Sherman began his inexorable march, considering how he had superior numbers of troops and a very adequate supply train..the outcome was almost pre-ordained.
   
   I in no way discount the courage and tenacity of the southern troops!  Most of the time they were fighting on empty bellies and with a limited arsenal and ammo.

  The American patriots at Valley Forge is the heritage of all American troops, north or south..  The Southern troops often revived that memory, in that they often had to forage for rations.

     So, the challenge still stands; forget sentimental values and explain why the south could have won over the long haul.

  From these foraging experiences came this song among Confederate veterans;  Enjoy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BcK3vR6bEc