Author Topic: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas! A "Speculation" Thread!  (Read 11155 times)

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #120 on: May 28, 2022, 03:45:42 PM »
This morning, one of the anchor guys on Newsmax, who happens to be a former SEAL, said that whether military or police..your job is to "PROTECT and serve"..

  If running to the gunfire is too rough an expectation, perhaps you should find other work.
I totally agree.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #121 on: May 28, 2022, 04:01:59 PM »
LOL,
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #122 on: May 28, 2022, 04:13:39 PM »
LOL,
Is that you and your twin brother??
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2022, 04:17:44 PM »
Damn, you guys sure do not need a liberal to pick on. You all are like a bunch of chickens pecking each other. Enjoy!
GuzziJohn

Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2022, 05:02:54 PM »
Damn, you guys sure do not need a liberal to pick on. You all are like a bunch of chickens pecking each other. Enjoy!
GuzziJohn

LOL, yeah I think the "coffee shop commandos" are over running the perimeter, and are ready to lynch the cowardly cops. The glowbug twins are leadin the coffee shop commando charge, so I'm "buggin out" before I get "lit up", no pun intended.  8)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Graybeard

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2022, 06:05:12 PM »
The LT Governor said none of the cops who went in came out. They stayed in the hallway outside the room where the shooter was to keep him from getting to other students in other parts of the school. The head of DPS said 19 of them were in that hall.

Now yes I agree I think they should have entered the classroom. So did the head of DPS, he said so, they should have gone into the room.

That call was made by the incident commander who clearly wasn't qualified to be making such decisions. The Lt Governor said he was the chief of the school district police, the 6-8 or so cops who are school security officers or whatever Texas calls them.

Having read all I can on this and watched all the videos I can find on it and listening to the Lt Governor and the head of DPS I guess I don't see where the cops on scene were cowards. Yeah I think from what I've seen and heard that incident commander made a really, really bad call. I think as soon as someone more qualified arrived he should have stepped down as incident commander but I have no clue how such things work other than watching cop shows on TV and who knows how real world such things are.

Even the Lt Governor said most all shots so far as he is aware were at the door to the room or into the walls to deter the cops from entering. So that chief prolly had reason to think more kids weren't being shot. He made a really bad call when he assumed all inside were dead.

When asked the Lt Governor was not sure if he had knowledge of the 911 calls from kids inside still alive.

My personal bottom line on this is, the cops to my personal thinking should have gone in. DPS and Lt Governor said that was what they are trained to do and that is police policy. They didn't. I dunno if that was just because the commander said not to or why.

I'm personally not gonna call them cowards as I just don't know enough facts. I personally doubt they were cowards. I think they were totally unprepared for what was happening, didn't have the experience or proper training to correctly act in this situation and followed orders and held in place in the hallway.

I'd be several folks lose their jobs over this and I think rightly so. That small department chief leads the list on folks who will lose their job. Dunno about the cops, nor so I know if they should lose their jobs. I tend to think not, but they need to be reassigned or properly trained or maybe both.

I'm betting the lawsuits will wreck that school district, the teacher who propped the door open with a rock (per Lt. Governor), the school principal, the district police department and likely others.

I think we need to stop making personal attacks and name calling of GBO Reloaded members on this thread and others. We're not the enemy guys.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline ulav8r

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2022, 06:11:09 PM »
It's terrible that 19 children and others were killed.  It is worse that over 2300 children are aborted each day and that politicians want to punish lawful gunowners for the actions of madmen while promoting abortion..

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2022, 09:30:51 PM »
all i know is this is being used as an anti cop anti gun propaganda coup by the left and ive even heard they didnt go in because alot of the kids were mexican. so the race card is being played by the left too. These are all top causes on the liberals nut case check list so im skeptical and so should you be. the exact same people that fried cops over the floyd thing and try to make him a hero are at the front of this bs. Just a day after biden was on tv calling him a hero. Like dee said. Wheres the outrage over the school not being prepared? One teacher with a gun could have stopped this. But there to busy trying to turn our kids into homosexuals. I dont see the left attacking the teachers unions for this crap. Nope they will hang the cops that they want to get rid of. They will blame the guns that they want to get rid of and the sad things is on here. One of the most conservative websites ive seen, It blows me away that some will defend those assholes and help spread this crap. Most who the most dangerous thing theyve ever encountered is a paper cut or calluses from tapping on there keyboard.

The real cause of this wasnt the cops. Heck it probably wasnt even that kid. Its the moral decay in this country and the fact that being a parent just isnt what it used to be. There were guns when we grew up. Heck some of us took them to school. Funny thing is that there was no school shootings.  Maybe a fist fight on the play ground at worse. We were taught respect. Respect for our parents and respect for out teachers. Our mothers got up and fed us breakfast before school. Our fathers went to work. Today probably a 1/3 of those kids eat school breakfast because there mas still sleeping and doesnt care enough to even feed there kids. Disipline your child and they go to those liberal schools and complain and protective services is over that evening. Its not the cops fault. The true fault is the same thing that is destroying this country and that is liberal socialism. Sorry but i wont take there bait. If a few cops fell apart at the scene i can even understand that. When bullets are flying at you your brain about turns to mush and many dont even remember what they did. It can be like an out of body experience. Id bet if you asked soldiers or cops that have been in a number of firefights all of them will tell you that there are no audie murphys. Those are extremely rare and most end up dead. Most of them are just trying to stay alive.
blue lives matter

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2022, 09:35:20 PM »
There is some cold hard facts. Brought to you by the same people that are trying to hang these cops. Pick a side.
It's terrible that 19 children and others were killed.  It is worse that over 2300 children are aborted each day and that politicians want to punish lawful gunowners for the actions of madmen while promoting abortion..
blue lives matter

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2022, 02:56:26 AM »
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

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Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2022, 03:06:00 AM »
all i know is this is being used as an anti cop anti gun propaganda coup by the left and ive even heard they didnt go in because alot of the kids were mexican. so the race card is being played by the left too. These are all top causes on the liberals nut case check list so im skeptical and so should you be. the exact same people that fried cops over the floyd thing and try to make him a hero are at the front of this bs. Just a day after biden was on tv calling him a hero. Like dee said. Wheres the outrage over the school not being prepared? One teacher with a gun could have stopped this. But there to busy trying to turn our kids into homosexuals. I dont see the left attacking the teachers unions for this crap. Nope they will hang the cops that they want to get rid of. They will blame the guns that they want to get rid of and the sad things is on here. One of the most conservative websites ive seen, It blows me away that some will defend those assholes and help spread this crap. Most who the most dangerous thing theyve ever encountered is a paper cut or calluses from tapping on there keyboard.

The real cause of this wasnt the cops. Heck it probably wasnt even that kid. Its the moral decay in this country and the fact that being a parent just isnt what it used to be. There were guns when we grew up. Heck some of us took them to school. Funny thing is that there was no school shootings.  Maybe a fist fight on the play ground at worse. We were taught respect. Respect for our parents and respect for out teachers. Our mothers got up and fed us breakfast before school. Our fathers went to work. Today probably a 1/3 of those kids eat school breakfast because there mas still sleeping and doesnt care enough to even feed there kids. Disipline your child and they go to those liberal schools and complain and protective services is over that evening. Its not the cops fault. The true fault is the same thing that is destroying this country and that is liberal socialism. Sorry but i wont take there bait. If a few cops fell apart at the scene i can even understand that. When bullets are flying at you your brain about turns to mush and many dont even remember what they did. It can be like an out of body experience. Id bet if you asked soldiers or cops that have been in a number of firefights all of them will tell you that there are no audie murphys. Those are extremely rare and most end up dead. Most of them are just trying to stay alive.

True, many of these officers were off duty, and came from home. They came in personal cars, personal guns, most likely didn't stop by the station and grab a radio.

Like Bill said, those officers that made entry immediately upon arrival, instantly came under fire, with 3 being wounded. They stayed in building, they didn't run, and now it's speculated that in their haste to make entry, and some coming from home,  they may, or may not have grabbed a radio.

I'm not making excuses for them, they should have went in, but they, or any other cop there, didn't cause this mass shooting, but they're catching all the heat.

It's easy to sit on your ass and have your wife write checks to children's organizations,  and it's easy to criticize people that actually chose to serve, when you never did.

The biggest critics here have for years, constantly complained that you can't trust, or believe, anything the media says. SUDDENLY! They've changed their minds, and they're gobbling up every little snippet,  and accept it as the truth.

The biggest critics here have been bitchin about the defend the police crowd.  SUDDENLY, all the police are cowards.

This wild swing is duely noted, that these types have never served the public, but they're the first to bitch. They are the slackers, not the police. If you sit on your ass, and let someone else do the heavy lifting, you never make mistakes, because you've never done anything.

The Uvalde Independent School District never put in real security doors, and windows. 
The Uvalde Independent School District never built security fences to keep the children at recess safe.
The Uvalde Independent School District never hired security for each individual school.
The Uvalde Independent School District declined the offer by the State of Texas to train and arm teacher, and school personnel.

But I'll bet they've got a hell of a sports program.

Had The Uvalde Independent School District done any of these to harden up security, this tragic slaughter may never have happened, but I'm the only one to mention it.

Early in the thread I posted a picture, and link concerning the Claud Texas  Independent School District hardening their schools to protect their children.
Not one comment from "coward callers". It didn't match their hypocrisy driven outrage against the cops in Uvalde Texas officers.

These types of slackers are always gonna chery pick news. And not a word from'em on The Uvalde School District Failures.  ;)

You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett
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Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2022, 03:11:06 AM »
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

How long do you think you'd last crawling through a window with a gunman hell bent on killing you? Are we interested in stopping the threat, or sacraficial cops.
We don't even know the layout of the approach on that room yet.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglow

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2022, 03:34:32 AM »
  Much discussed, some without factual backup.. not good.  Folks are upset about needless deaths; understandable.  All kinds of phrases being sputtered out..

 Some folks accusing others of having never done or experienced this or that..when none of us know
 the complete life history of the other fellow.

  Much will has to "come out in the wash", and I will ignore any feeble, cartoonish attempts to belittle.
    However, we already have some info that has been made known; facts that show there was some lying going on.. if this proves true, heads should roll .

  https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/greg-abbott-texas-uvalde-shooting/

  https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/uvalde-school-shooting-police-errors/

  https://www.nationalreview.com/news/abbott-was-misled-about-police-inaction-in-uvalde-shooting-says-fbi-investigating/

     I have a photo of my grandson , getting ready to head into the city.  The Marines would try to draw fire upon themselves, in an effort to wipe out the insurgents.
  If you notice, right there, in front of the water bottle, under the butt of his M4 rifle, are two
 cylindrical aluminum objects.
  Not having seen them in my own situation, I asked him what they are. He told me that they would enter the terrorist held cities such as Falliujah or Ramadi, with each platoon taking a different route.
   If one ran into a tough fire fight,  other Marines could hear but not see them. these aluminum tubes were flares they would shoot into the air so as to let other Marines know where the action is hot.
   They could rely on the fact that when the flares were launched..other Marines would come running TO the fight! 
  As Carl Higby, Newsmax anchor and former SEAL said, IF one doesn't want to run TO the gun fire, perhaps they should consider other work.
 I don't know if law enforcement is trained the same, but if so it didn't work well in the Florida school shooting.
  As I see it, armed and trained teachers would be a good idea.

  You woll have to turn the photoi, because I can't..  click to enlarge..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2022, 04:02:26 AM »
  Much discussed, some without factual backup.. not good.  Folks are upset about needless deaths; understandable.  All kinds of phrases being sputtered out..

 Some folks accusing others of having never done or experienced this or that..when none of us know
 the complete life history of the other fellow.

  Much will has to "come out in the wash", and I will ignore any feeble, cartoonish attempts to belittle.
    However, we already have some info that has been made known; facts that show there was some lying going on.. if this proves true, heads should roll .

  https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/greg-abbott-texas-uvalde-shooting/

  https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/uvalde-school-shooting-police-errors/

  https://www.nationalreview.com/news/abbott-was-misled-about-police-inaction-in-uvalde-shooting-says-fbi-investigating/

     I have a photo of my grandson , getting ready to head into the city.  The Marines would try to draw fire upon themselves, in an effort to wipe out the insurgents.
  If you notice, right there, in front of the water bottle, under the butt of his M4 rifle, are two
 cylindrical aluminum objects.
  Not having seen them in my own situation, I asked him what they are. He told me that they would enter the terrorist held cities such as Falliujah or Ramadi, with each platoon taking a different route.
   If one ran into a tough fire fight,  other Marines could hear but not see them. these aluminum tubes were flares they would shoot into the air so as to let other Marines know where the action is hot.
   They could rely on the fact that when the flares were launched..other Marines would come running TO the fight! 
  As Carl Higby, Newsmax anchor and former SEAL said, IF one doesn't want to run TO the gun fire, perhaps they should consider other work.
 I don't know if law enforcement is trained the same, but if so it didn't work well in the Florida school shooting.
  As I see it, armed and trained teachers would be a good idea.

  You woll have to turn the photoi, because I can't..  click to enlarge..
I have a son that I'm sure saw just as much combat as your grandson. His mother was a law enforcement secretary,  and after 3 combat tours in Afghanistan, and Iraq,  and after growing up around cops, says that the role of a combat soldier, and the role of a cop, are quite different, so it's apples and oranges there.

I retired almost 30 years ago. The world of law enforcement has changed some in what's acceptable,  and what isn't

You putted around in a tank during peace time some 60 years ago. Things have changed in that world also.

So while you, and your ilk "pre judge", I'll do these officers the courtesy they deserve, and wait for a complete  investigation results.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #134 on: May 29, 2022, 04:15:11 AM »
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye
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Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2022, 04:50:34 AM »
Oh boy! More second hand opinion.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2022, 05:02:37 AM »


The real cause of this wasnt the cops. Heck it probably wasnt even that kid. Its the moral decay in this country.
Yep, when you kick GOD out, satan moves in.

I'm gonna post something my wife sent me.
*******************************************************************

I just watched a news person interview a school principal and ask, "What are we missing? What do children need?" He went on and on about mental illness, the Juvenile Justice System, gun control, education reform, blah, blah, blah.
Folks, none of that mumbo jumbo makes a lick of sense. Here is what children need:
1. Children need a mother and a father who love each other and work together as a team.
2. Children need a bicycle, neighbors, and cousins.
3. Children need a grandma to bake with and a grandpa to take em fishing.
4. Children need a church, a Sunday School Class, and a truth telling Preacher.
5. Children need a dinner time with home cooked food, prayer, and conversation.
6. Children need Sunday afternoon football and fried chicken.
7. Children need books on tape and coloring pages.
8. Children need summers at the beach and bazooka bubble gum.
9. Children need a trip to Arlington and Fourth of July Fireworks.
10. Children need fire pits, smores, ghost stories, the drive in, and real popcorn.
11. Children need discipline from their parents.
12. Children need chores, a job, a way to earn what they want.
13. Children need education that recognizes mama and daddy as the authority, God as the creator, and the Bible as the roadmap.
This is not about some agenda, this is about children. Get back to basics: faith, family, & good ole fashioned fun.

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline ironglow

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2022, 06:49:01 AM »
FromDee ;

   " I have a son that I'm sure saw just as much combat as your grandson. His mother was a law enforcement secretary,  and after 3 combat tours in Afghanistan, and Iraq,  and after growing up around cops, says that the role of a combat soldier, and the role of a cop, are quite different, so it's apples and oranges there.
    Your son has served and served well..thank him from me, for his service.  ...And you ARE SURE, he saw as much combat service.. he may have, may have seen less or more, but how can you be SO SURE?  Is that how you arrived at the conclusion that there was no "keystone cops" scene at the school?  Some officers on the scene say otherwise! 
 Then you say his mother had 3 combat tours in Afghanistan & Iraq, and Afghanistan and she says the role of a combat soldier and a cop differ, so with that experience, perhaps we should take her word for it. ....So are cops not expected to go toward the gunfire or not?  I know some who disagree with that..
 

   I retired almost 30 years ago. The world of law enforcement has changed some in what's acceptable,  and what isn't
   Without a doubt...there never were  so many people watching, with their cell phone cameras.  No doubt some are helpful, but many are harmful...nd may intimidate cops from acting quickly for fear of legal trouble.

You putted around in a tank during peace time some 60 years ago. Things have changed in that world also.
  So you putted around in a patrol car during peace time many years ago. You don't know my whole military service, it was war time, and I did carry a security clearance, so you will never know.
    ..But then how do we know if you were a Marshall Dillon...or a Barney Fife?  Guess we don't!
   Things have changed in Barney's world too !


So while you, and your ilk "pre judge", I'll do these officers the courtesy they deserve, and wait for a complete  investigation results.
   
..And you won't accept the on-scene officers' statements ? OK !

  So now, take a break, and enjoy your Memorial Day weekend..

If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2022, 09:26:58 AM »
its like i said Dee. Nobody that wasnt on scene really knows what happens or what the layout was. One thing you dont do as a soldier or cop is charge into a situation without a plan. Even the bravest like swat teams and speical forces know that and follow it. They know if they didnt theyd probably be dead and what help are they dead!! I think some on here think they should have volunteered to get gunned down.

Nobody here knows that school or the layout. comments like crawl through a window come from people who never crawled through a window and most likely never has put there ass on the line for anyone. How many liberal texans charged to the scene to help out? If they charged id bet it was to the hills. You and i know its all talk from people that dont have clue. Truthfully im happy that they never had to put there ass on the line because thinking the way they do theyd all be dead.
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

How long do you think you'd last crawling through a window with a gunman hell bent on killing you? Are we interested in stopping the threat, or sacraficial cops.
We don't even know the layout of the approach on that room yet.
blue lives matter

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #139 on: May 29, 2022, 01:23:27 PM »
It was said that the 19 cops in the hallway was to keep him from going to other classrooms.
I don't buy that.
THREE border patrol agents unlocked the door and killed the shooter.
The border patrol didn't have a formal plan like the cops needed, they reacted.
Are border patrol agents smarter than your basic street cop??
Probably, and braver too.

I've been accused of being a useless armchair quarterback that knows nothing about the situation.
Maybe so, but, I did exactly the same thing as the local cops did, which is NOTHING.


Everyone needs to read Matthew 18 to realize the worth of those CHILDREN who were slaughtered while the cops stood in the hallway and pissed their pants.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #140 on: May 29, 2022, 01:26:29 PM »
FromDee ;

   " I have a son that I'm sure saw just as much combat as your grandson. His mother was a law enforcement secretary,  and after 3 combat tours in Afghanistan, and Iraq,  and after growing up around cops, says that the role of a combat soldier, and the role of a cop, are quite different, so it's apples and oranges there.
    Your son has served and served well..thank him from me, for his service.  ...And you ARE SURE, he saw as much combat service.. he may have, may have seen less or more, but how can you be SO SURE?  Is that how you arrived at the conclusion that there was no "keystone cops" scene at the school?  Some officers on the scene say otherwise! 
 Then you say his mother had 3 combat tours in Afghanistan & Iraq, and Afghanistan and she says the role of a combat soldier and a cop differ, so with that experience, perhaps we should take her word for it. ....So are cops not expected to go toward the gunfire or not?  I know some who disagree with that..
 

   I retired almost 30 years ago. The world of law enforcement has changed some in what's acceptable,  and what isn't
   Without a doubt...there never were  so many people watching, with their cell phone cameras.  No doubt some are helpful, but many are harmful...nd may intimidate cops from acting quickly for fear of legal trouble.

You putted around in a tank during peace time some 60 years ago. Things have changed in that world also.
  So you putted around in a patrol car during peace time many years ago. You don't know my whole military service, it was war time, and I did carry a security clearance, so you will never know.
    ..But then how do we know if you were a Marshall Dillon...or a Barney Fife?  Guess we don't!
   Things have changed in Barney's world too !


So while you, and your ilk "pre judge", I'll do these officers the courtesy they deserve, and wait for a complete  investigation results.
   
..And you won't accept the on-scene officers' statements ? OK !

  So now, take a break, and enjoy your Memorial Day weekend..


Ohhhh, my mistake, there was a war. A "cold war". My 84 year old uncle, your doppelganger told me, and anybody else that would listen about that. Do you have one of those "US Army Veteran of the "cold War"  ball caps like his?  ::)

Now about this. Matt Dillon or Barny Fife issue.

I'm waaaay cooler than either one of those two. Matt hung out in saloon all the  time, and Barny hung out with folks like you two. Howard, the barber, ect.

I ran with the pack. I'm the Deputy Dawg type. 8)

BTW Does Matthew Chapter 7 verses 1, & 2. Not appy to you and your fox hole buddy when y'all are doin all that "pre-judgin" on the cops. Where's that good Christian charity of gettin the beam outta your own eye first?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #141 on: May 29, 2022, 01:29:45 PM »
The Failures of The Uvalde Independent School District to protect their kids. CRICKETS from the "flat screen commando twins".

Oh well,  I'm getting bored anyway. Non combat critics really are a waste of time. They're either repeating what they read, or what someone told'em.

Time to move on folks. Nuthin but repeats here. 8)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #142 on: May 29, 2022, 01:49:24 PM »
The Failures of The Uvalde Independent School District to protect their kids. CRICKETS from the warrior twins.

Oh well,  I'm getting bored anyway. Non combat critics really are a waste of time. They're either repeating what they read, or what someone told'em.
My wife has a 2nd cousin who is a school resource officer in Butts county Ga.
He was fired from the Griffin Ga. police dept. after wrecking two patrol cars.
He is a total doofus.

My wife is braver than the Uvalde cops, about 20 years ago her school had a bomb threat, the principal was out of town and the veep broke the rules and had went to walmart.
When the call came in she calmly got on the PA and announced a fire drill then pulled the fire alarm, and when the kids were out she walked each hallway to make sure they were empty, and only then did she exit the building.
She got it done before the cops showed up.
She had a duty and performed that duty which was to protect those kids AT ALL COST.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline ironglow

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #143 on: May 29, 2022, 02:07:44 PM »
FromDee ;

   " I have a son that I'm sure saw just as much combat as your grandson. His mother was a law enforcement secretary,  and after 3 combat tours in Afghanistan, and Iraq,  and after growing up around cops, says that the role of a combat soldier, and the role of a cop, are quite different, so it's apples and oranges there.
    Your son has served and served well..thank him from me, for his service.  ...And you ARE SURE, he saw as much combat service.. he may have, may have seen less or more, but how can you be SO SURE?  Is that how you arrived at the conclusion that there was no "keystone cops" scene at the school?  Some officers on the scene say otherwise! 
 Then you say his mother had 3 combat tours in Afghanistan & Iraq, and Afghanistan and she says the role of a combat soldier and a cop differ, so with that experience, perhaps we should take her word for it. ....So are cops not expected to go toward the gunfire or not?  I know some who disagree with that..
 

   I retired almost 30 years ago. The world of law enforcement has changed some in what's acceptable,  and what isn't
   Without a doubt...there never were  so many people watching, with their cell phone cameras.  No doubt some are helpful, but many are harmful...nd may intimidate cops from acting quickly for fear of legal trouble.

You putted around in a tank during peace time some 60 years ago. Things have changed in that world also.
  So you putted around in a patrol car during peace time many years ago. You don't know my whole military service, it was war time, and I did carry a security clearance, so you will never know.
    ..But then how do we know if you were a Marshall Dillon...or a Barney Fife?  Guess we don't!
   Things have changed in Barney's world too !


So while you, and your ilk "pre judge", I'll do these officers the courtesy they deserve, and wait for a complete  investigation results.
   
..And you won't accept the on-scene officers' statements ? OK !

  So now, take a break, and enjoy your Memorial Day weekend..


Ohhhh, my mistake, there was a war. A "cold war". My 84 year old uncle, your doppelganger told me, and anybody else that would listen about that. Do you have one of those "US Army Veteran of the "cold War"  ball caps like his?  ::)

Now about this. Matt Dillon or Barny Fife issue.

I'm waaaay cooler than either one of those two. Matt hung out in saloon all the  time, and Barny hung out with folks like you two. Howard, the barber, ect.

I ran with the pack. I'm the Deputy Dawg type. 8)

BTW Does Matthew Chapter 7 verses 1, & 2. Not appy to you and your fox hole buddy when y'all are doin all that "pre-judgin" on the cops. Where's that good Christian charity of gettin the beam outta your own eye first?

  All I did was link to what other on-the-scene officers said. Now if you want to discuss scriotural exegesis...I'm game.
  So far as your statements and accusations concerning my miitary experiences, there is much you don't know, know, nor ever will.

...And speaking about Matthew 7 & and not making false charges..that diatribe by you fit right in.. :D ;D

If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #144 on: May 29, 2022, 02:21:33 PM »
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

How long do you think you'd last crawling through a window with a gunman hell bent on killing you? Are we interested in stopping the threat, or sacraficial cops.
We don't even know the layout of the approach on that room yet.

There is no way of knowing how long you would last. The protocol was to forget about your life, and save children. The soldiers who stormed the beaches of Normandy didn't know how long they had, but did it anyway. It would have been great if no lives were lost that day in Tx, but I would rather hear of ten cops losing their lives that day, dying to save a room full of children. That , we know didn't happen. I don't hate Cops. If there was cowardice that day, it doesn't matter, but facts are showing there were some that didn't do their jobs, and lives may have been saved if they had.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #145 on: May 29, 2022, 02:26:11 PM »
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

How long do you think you'd last crawling through a window with a gunman hell bent on killing you? Are we interested in stopping the threat, or sacraficial cops.
We don't even know the layout of the approach on that room yet.

There is no way of knowing how long you would last. The protocol was to forget about your life, and save children. The soldiers who stormed the beaches of Normandy didn't know how long they had, but did it anyway. It would have been great if no lives were lost that day in Tx, but I would rather hear of ten cops losing their lives that day, dying to save a room full of children. That , we know didn't happen. I don't hate Cops. If there was cowardice that day, it doesn't matter, but facts are showing there were some that didn't do their jobs, and lives may have been saved if they had.
Excellent post.
Many of those at Normandy were just kids who did their duty.  Brave kids/men.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline DDZ

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #146 on: May 29, 2022, 02:55:39 PM »
I have to believe there are ways to knock down a door, besides finding the janitor and taking his key. Had an 18 year old untrained POS in the room, with 19 fully trained cops outside. None of us were there, but looking at it through the eyes of common sense makes one question why it did take so long. Or are we not allowed to question something like this because they are cops? It appears that anyone here questioning the response from the police are getting ridiculed for doing so.  I've seen all kinds of opinions given on this forum on subjects where none of us were there, but it was always permissible to question or talk about it.  Now question the police, and its taboo.  In 40 minutes time I bet they could have found some citizens that knew how to shoot a firearm volunteer to go in.

I have to question if it was the Chief's decision not to go in and take the punk out, or did the order come from someone else above him.  After watching Antifi, and BLM burn and destroy so many cites while police forces watched them do it. I question everything. I truly believe this bunch of radical leftists that are running this country now will do anything to further their agenda. Seems they have no issue killing children in the womb. They have shown they will stop at nothing to keep that killing going. Including letting pro abortionists terrorize SC justices in their homes. Which is against the law.  Are kids in a classroom any different to them? 

I also have to wonder if its the SOP to not go in a building and get an active shooter. Especially if its one shooter in a classroom full of kids.  Yes none of us were there, but there are parents that were there speaking up to as what took place. 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Dee

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #147 on: May 29, 2022, 03:00:43 PM »
I find it puzzling, that while waiting for a door key to breach the classroom, why didn't other LEO'S attempt to enter through the windows? We now know that others (including officers) were going through windows in other classrooms to get the children out. Why not that one?

How long do you think you'd last crawling through a window with a gunman hell bent on killing you? Are we interested in stopping the threat, or sacraficial cops.
We don't even know the layout of the approach on that room yet.

There is no way of knowing how long you would last. The protocol was to forget about your life, and save children. The soldiers who stormed the beaches of Normandy didn't know how long they had, but did it anyway. It would have been great if no lives were lost that day in Tx, but I would rather hear of ten cops losing their lives that day, dying to save a room full of children. That , we know didn't happen. I don't hate Cops. If there was cowardice that day, it doesn't matter, but facts are showing there were some that didn't do their jobs, and lives may have been saved if they had.

The combat soldier, and the police officer have different roles.

This was a damned if you do, and damned if you don't scenario. If they had stormed the class room as soon as they got there, and gotten into a hellashous firefight in a room full of kids, and accidentally hit some kids,  the reaction would have been the same as now. What the hell were the cops thinking starting a gunfight in a room full of kids. The news media would have gone nuts, and so would the flat screen commandos here.


You've always been a reasonable man, but know one on this website, or in any news room, knows whether those kids and teachers were killed before, during, or after the police arrived. Your condemning without the facts. The investigation just started, you have almost no truly reliable group of facts, but your okay with 10 dead cops. Really?. BTW, 10 dead cops won't rescue anyone.

Why aren't you, and everyone else here equally as disappointed in the Uvalde Independent School District for leaving the school wide open for an event such as this?

Wouldn't you rather see the school administrators, and the school board members dead rather than the kids they were supposed protect? Where is your anger there. They've had years to prepare but did nuthin.
They are actually the ones that allowed this to happen. Wheres your anger and condemnation for them? The school was wide open. No locked outside doors, no ballistic glass in them, hell he walked into one that was proped open.
No security fences surrounding the playground, or school buildings. No full-time security. Refusal to accept free training from the State of Texas to arm teachers, and staff through the "Guardian Plan".
It's not like this was the first ever school shooting. They were warned years ago.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. You've heard that, and it's true.

With the Uvalde Independent School Districts' total failure in providing a secure environment, why are the police to blame, for not properly straightening out the mess caused by Uvalde School administrators, and the school board members.

The Uvalde School Administrators, and School Board had years to prepare but didn't. The police had seconds, and minutes while being shot at.

If the Uvalde School District had taken those years they had to properly prepare, this likely would have not happened.

Use that common sense that I know you have.

You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #148 on: May 29, 2022, 03:31:14 PM »
I have to believe there are ways to knock down a door, besides finding the janitor and taking his key. Had an 18 year old untrained POS in the room, with 19 fully trained cops outside. None of us were there, but looking at it through the eyes of common sense makes one question why it did take so long. Or are we not allowed to question something like this because they are cops? It appears that anyone here questioning the response from the police are getting ridiculed for doing so.  I've seen all kinds of opinions given on this forum on subjects where none of us were there, but it was always permissible to question or talk about it.  Now question the police, and its taboo.  In 40 minutes time I bet they could have found some citizens that knew how to shoot a firearm volunteer to go in.

I have to question if it was the Chief's decision not to go in and take the punk out, or did the order come from someone else above him.  After watching Antifi, and BLM burn and destroy so many cites while police forces watched them do it. I question everything. I truly believe this bunch of radical leftists that are running this country now will do anything to further their agenda. Seems they have no issue killing children in the womb. They have shown they will stop at nothing to keep that killing going. Including letting pro abortionists terrorize SC justices in their homes. Which is against the law.  Are kids in a classroom any different to them? 

I also have to wonder if its the SOP to not go in a building and get an active shooter. Especially if its one shooter in a classroom full of kids.  Yes none of us were there, but there are parents that were there speaking up to as what took place.
Very good post.
I've been in several schools and in every one the doors were made of heavy wood.
But the police have ARs or equivalent and could have splintered the door around the lock.
19 fully trained cops, yep no excuse.

In my own town of Morrow Georgia, nearly all the cops have college degrees, I know this because we are friends with the chief, a lieutenant and a sergeant, and my wife is a member of two city development committees.
We pay them well and they fight crime instead of terrorizing the citizenry with speed traps and other nonsense.
I fully believe that our chief would tell his men to go in and kill the shooter and save CHILDREN.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline Ranger99

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Re: 14 Grade Schoolers & 1 Teacher Killed In Uvalde Texas!
« Reply #149 on: May 29, 2022, 03:31:53 PM »
I sure didn't realize how many people were
willing to give up their rights and agree with
all the calls for banning this and that and
mandatory registration and schooling and
limited ammunition purchases, and confiscation
etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm also very surprised at those that don't want
to have some measure of control of psychotic
people that can't behave in a civilized manner
or the career criminals that won't behave regardless.

I guess it shows how many apathetic and politically
correct people there are these days
Many endorse the road to anarchy without even
realizing it.  A gated subdivision won't help any if
the S really did HTF.
Possums will eventually get your eggs and chickens
no matter where your chicken house is or however
remote your homestead is

Oh well.  . . . .
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .