ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING FAILURE!

[Dee]

The Uvalde Texas Independent School District like so many other school districts nationwide, chose to ignore the trend of hardening their schools.
Unlocked, even proped open none secure doors. No security fences, no on duty armed security officers for each of its EIGHT schools.
And a refusal to participate in a State of Texas program called "The Guardian Plan" where teachers, and staff receive free training to go armed at school to further protect themselves, and students. .

Just as in other school shootings of the past,, news media, the general public,  and politicians focus on "the police response failures", "mental health"  and of course "gun control".

This one is no different. Even so-called conservatives here on GBO have done the same. Blame the police for its response failures, and kick around things like "mental health examinations", and 18 year olds restrictions on buying high capacity rifles. I.E. GUN CONTROL!

IN TRUTH!

Had the Uvalde Independent School District heeded continued warnings, by installing security doors, and windows, hired armed and trained security guards, installed high security fences with locked gates, and taken advantage of State sanctioned programs such as the "Guardian Plan", this likely would not have happened.

I would guess that like most school districts in Texas and other places, literal fortunes were spent instead, on SPORTS.

WE NOW HAVE A PRESIDENT, AND CONGRESS THAT WOULD RELISH THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE YOUR MENTAL STATE AND DECIDE WHETHER YOUR FIT TO OWN A FIREARM.

AND WE NOW HAVE A PRESIDENT, AND CONGRESS THAT WOULD "LOVE" TO BAN 18 YEAR OLDS FROM PURCHASING HIGH CAPACITY RIFLES.

SO, CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

THE BIDEN REGIME HAS A CERTAIN NUMBER OF THE POPULATIONS EAR, AND SPENT 8 HOURS IN UVALDE WHERE HE WAS WELCOMED.


Living in "A FREE SOCIETY" requires self protection, and vigilance.

Your government, if you haven't noticed, never gives anything back it takes.

If the attitudes here on GBO are any indication of the rest of the country, this schoo shooting in Uvalde Texas will give the left what they've been after for a long time.

OUR FREEDOM.

[Dee]

Yeah, agree.
But also seems out freedom and rights is also in the hands of police enforcers to handle these security events like Uvalde and the others, quickly, with clear policies and decision making, and without delay and dithering especially when there's an active shooter involved.

And there was an active shooter involved because the Ramos kid was outside the school after crashing grandma's truck, for several minutes shooting up a funeral home across the street from the school....which is baffling why a teacher propped open a door.

But wait - - there's more!

WHAT.....!    SOCIAL SENTINEL?!

REVEALED: Uvalde school district was part of AI program that rooted out potential mass killers and monitored social media for threats and potential shooters
Texas school officials had been monitoring students' social media prior to the deadly shooting in Uvalde Tuesday - but failed to pick up on posts from gunman
As an 18th birthday present to himself earlier this month, now-deceased suspect Salvador Ramos bought two AR-style rifles and paraded them on social media
The ensuing massacre left 19 students aged under 11 and two adults dead
Before the rampage, Ramos reportedly also shot his 66-year-old grandmother
Uvalde School District officials say they had been monitoring its students' social media pages using an advanced AI-based service called Social Sentinel.
The software is designed to find signs of potential harm in digital conversations


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10853241/Uvalde-school-district-monitoring-students-social-media-pages-threats-against-staff-site.html

So the school district failed on yet another level?

[DDZ]

Yeah, lots of failures. Wonder if it has anything to do with the public schools and police departments being funded and controlled by governments. 
Today's schools also help to create monsters like Ramos.  Little Johnny is being disruptive in class. the teacher complains to the parents, and the parents go get him medicated. I remember back in the day there was no medications. If you were disruptive in school you got your ass beat with a slab of maple. Then when you got home you got your ass beat again.  Schools, by the direction of teachers unions and the nanny state. teach kids that no one loses. Everyone is the same and everyone wins. Its one of the reasons score isn't kept in kids games. Then when kids have to face the reality of life, when they get on their own. They don't know how to handle it. 

As far as school security goes. Locking doors, and/or having one entrance is the cheapest and easiest security. With today's technology and without a lot of money they could make school entrances pretty hard to breech.   

I wonder where Ramos got the money to buy two Danial Defense AR's, body armor, and ammo?  When I was looking to buy an AR, I looked at Danial Defense AR's and decided they were to costly, and settled on something else.   At 18 years old I was lucky enough to have enough gas money for the car I had. Ramos doesn't remind me of someone that was out busting his hump working and saving money.

[oldandslow]

I can't argue against anything in the OP. When the adults won't step up and use the tools available to them it's the kids that suffer for their failure. There is a lot of blame to go around in Uvalde because of the adults that shirked their duty or didn't take advantage of the preventive measures available to them. Now the the politicians, liberals, and even some gun owners are calling for more laws. There are plenty of laws already on the books but they have to be enforced. Hint, criminals don't obey laws so why expect more to change anything? Evidently the advanced software the SD was using isn't that great or more likely it was just ignored by the adults.

As more things about this become available I smell something seriously fishy about the entire thing. Where does an 18 year kid get the funds he used for his purchases. Why was the door propped open that morning, why did the police chief forbid entrance?

I said in the other thread that the PD, school board, administrators, and the teacher that propped the door open should be shown the road. I expect the lawsuits that will be filed will punish them a great deal. It won't be enough to make up for the deaths their inactions caused. Instead of this being used as a teaching incident about using the resources available it's just another "more gun laws, get rid of the guns"  rant by those that would have us all helpless with no protection from the criminals and insane that live among us.

[Mule 11]

I believe the teacher that propped the door open was gunned down...

[DDZ]

As time goes on and nothing bad happens. People get complacent.  I'll just open this back door to let some fresh air in. 

[BUGEYE]

As more things about this become available I smell something seriously fishy about the entire thing. Where does an 18 year kid get the funds he used for his purchases. Why was the door propped open that morning??

Just guessing here, he probably stole granny's money and bought the rifles and she found out and confronted him and he got mad and shot her.
The door??  My wife closed and locked many doors that teachers would prop open and go to their cars to get something or take a smoke.
They would then have to come through the main office doors in view of office staff and if the principal or veep was in the office they would be questioned about why they was not in class.
In Uvalde that teacher murdered 19 CHILDREN and 2 adults.

[oldandslow]

I believe the teacher that propped the door open was gunned down...

OK. Over and done with.

The teacher did not murder 19 children and 2 adults, she facilitated a nutcase to do so. If she purposely propped the door open for him she is as guilty as him, if not, she is guilty of stupidity. I'm sure if she is alive she will charged  but not familiar with that part of Texas law I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what. Dee probably knows.

[Mule 11]

As more things about this become available I smell something seriously fishy about the entire thing. Where does an 18 year kid get the funds he used for his purchases. Why was the door propped open that morning??

Just guessing here, he probably stole granny's money and bought the rifles and she found out and confronted him and he got mad and shot her.
The door??  My wife closed and locked many doors that teachers would prop open and go to their cars to get something or take a smoke.
They would then have to come through the main office doors in view of office staff and if the principal or veep was in the office they would be questioned about why they was not in class.
In Uvalde that teacher murdered 19 CHILDREN and 2 adults.

No, that whacked out pos did it. The teacher made a mistake and died for it...

[Dee]

Local news said grandma's stolen credit card paid for the rifles. You can buy 30 round mags pretty cheap,  and living rent free with grandma the part time Wendy's job  uys the ammo.  This wasn't a conspiracy, it was a dark hearted 18 year old with no direction, and an astute awareness that this particular elementary school was lackadaisical on its best day in the way of security.
He lived about two blocks from the school all his life, and attended that school as a child.

These events are seldom as complicated as the news commentators, and politicians make them sound.

[BUGEYE]

Stolen charge card......mmmmm?
3500 to 4000 dollars of gear on grannie's card.?
At a gun store? Seems implausible if the original card owner wasn't present, and had a pretty good credit line. Usually purchases like that would be flagged by the charge card company and the store.

Now I see Chief Peter Arrando had 20 years experience in the school system police force before taking the chief's job at Uvalde......So, he should have thoroughly known the protocols for active shooters in schools - - which is no delays and get the bad guy immediately.

There's a great number of police and police chiefs that are not RTBA 2nd Amendment supporters. In fact, alot of police ranks are filled with libber types. Come to find out Chief Peter is a Beto O'rourke supporter having made pretty sizable contributions to Beto's political fund.

Meanwhile, Chief Peter Arrando won an elected seat on the Uvalde commission; but the commission has now said they will not be swearing him in.....
.

Democrats care nothing for CHILDREN.

[ironglow]

A couple great questions by DDZ;

     Yeah, lots of failures. Wonder if it has anything to do with the public schools and police departments being funded and controlled by governments.

  I wonder where Ramos got the money to buy two Danial Defense AR's, body armor, and ammo?  When I was looking to buy an AR, I looked at Danial Defense AR's and decided they were to costly, and settled on something else.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Further questions;
   Why didn't the funds provided and the people responsible, not pick up on this bird's rantings on social media?  After all, he was a known problem..

  How is it one police agency seems frozen outdoors, while another simply ges the key from the janitor, and open the door as anyone else would do?
 
   This kid wore women's makup...was he screwed ip by all the BS now being pedalled by the left..advocating LGBTQ..?

   Was it not a clue, when his estranged mother while adderessing the murders, said.."he has his reasons"!

  If parents, school, the media, democrats, web watchers, and the FBI nics check personnel done their respective jobs, would this whole sordid scene have even happened?
   
   

[Lloyd Smale]

yup id about bet they put more money into there pee wee football program and teaching children that being gay is cool then they did actually protecting those children. Without there failures we wouldnt even be discussing what the police did. If anyone should loose there jobs its the superintendent of that school and the school board members.

[Dee]

I see the 'propped open door's story has changed.
.

Indeed it has. The teacher that proped that door open WAS NOT KILLED, and she has lawyered up.

Also, new light has been shed that the classroom doors were designed to be almost "breach proof" and the Border Patrol had to wait until a janitor was located WITH KEYS, along with first responders not being as negligent as first thought.
This first "rush to judgement" seems to be falling apart.

[oldandslow]

I am wondering if Uvalde has no fire department with halligan tools, no stores with sledge hammers, or someone with a portable cutting torch rig or just people not smart enough to make use of any of them. It's amazing what you can do to steel with an A/O rig and a #4 cutting tip and how quickly you can do it. Oh well, I wasn't there so know nothing.

[Mule 11]

Good to hear the truth. News can’t seem to get any details right... I should have known better and listened to that small voice of doubt even about that supposed fact.

[Dee]

I am wondering if Uvalde has no fire department with halligan tools, no stores with sledge hammers, or someone with a portable cutting torch rig or just people not smart enough to make use of any of them. It's amazing what you can do to steel with an A/O rig and a #4 cutting tip and how quickly you can do it. Oh well, I wasn't there so know nothing.

Oldandslow, barricaded perps, or even those locked in rooms with security doors present all sorts of problems to tactical units which are far different than military combat operations.

I have personally ran into some of these issues and they have to be "worked around" where when the solution is applied, it will have be near foolproof.

Most inside security doors that are "metal" are actually "metal skinned" and designed to be somewhat flexible in certain areas, but not totally.

If not under fire, I have used a plain old hi-lift jack to horizontally stretch the door facing away from the locking mechanism DEPENDING on how much door facing was on my side of the door.

One on another thread suggested taking out the hinges with an AR15, with kids in the targeted room. An insane idea on the best day. You have no idea where deflected bullets are going, or where anyone in that room are located.

But here is a consideration I have ran into. When the hinges are on the other side of the door, SWAT (or those Uvalde officers, would have no idea of their location.

Also, damage the lock, and a key may not even get you in. Remember, it's a security door.

As to your idea of a torch? What is under that metal door skin, how old is the building,  and what were building fire codes when it was built? Burn down a building full of kids, dead or alive and read those headlines.

The Texas Rangers is, and always has been a  Crack outfit. I personally have worked closely with several good Rangers. They will get all the answers to who coulda, shoulda, woulda.

In the Waco Branch Davidian massacre, they burned the ATF, the US Marshalls, and Janet Reno to the ground in front of Congress.

We're gonna know the real truth when their done, but in the meantime I'm gonna give those officers the benefit of the doubt they deserve. Cowards don't run into a fight, and they did.

[BUGEYE]

We're gonna know the real truth when their done, but in the meantime I'm gonna give those officers the benefit of the doubt they deserve. Cowards don't run into a fight, and they did.

No they didn't, the first responders did nothing to prevent the murder of 19 CHILDREN and 2 adults.
Even more would have died if the border patrol hadn't shown up.
I would bet that the border patrol was scared, but THEY did their duty.

[Dee]

We're gonna know the real truth when their done, but in the meantime I'm gonna give those officers the benefit of the doubt they deserve. Cowards don't run into a fight, and they did.

No they didn't, the first responders did nothing to prevent the murder of 19 CHILDREN and 2 adults.
Even more would have died if the border patrol hadn't shown up.
I would bet that the border patrol was scared, but THEY did their duty.

Well, I see you're gonna follow me to this thread and try to hijack it with your tryin to start more BS with me. I would imagine Bill sees it to.

I'm done with your goofiness, you don't need my help to make a fool outta yourself. Buzz of Bugsy.

[oldandslow]

There is nothing under that metal door skin that would set a building on fire and there are gadgets called fire extinguishers. I wasn't advocating cutting a hole in the wall with the torch, only into the door around the lock. It's not set in stone that you will set everything around you on fire with a torch. I once cut a man out of a set of tongs that had latched on his hand and didn't burn him and my only help was a first year college student that was a summer hire, quite a few shop rags, and a five gallon water can. The kid stood right there without a flinch taking care of the water as I ran the torch while supervisors, sherriff's deputies, and other adults couldn't even watch. They walked away to the other side of the equipment on the location until I was finished. Even when the EMTs arrived they stood back by their ambulance while the young man and I worked.

I do believe the Rangers will dig all the way to the bottom of this fiasco.

[Dee]

There is nothing under that metal door skin that would set a building on fire and there are gadgets called fire extinguishers. I wasn't advocating cutting a hole in the wall with the torch, only into the door around the lock. It's not set in stone that you will set everything around you on fire with a torch. I once cut a man out of a set of tongs that had latched on his hand and didn't burn him and my only help was a first year college student that was a summer hire, quite a few shop rags, and a five gallon water can. The kid stood right there without a flinch taking care of the water as I ran the torch while supervisors, sherriff's deputies, and other adults couldn't even watch. They walked away to the other side of the equipment on the location until I was finished. Even when the EMTs arrived they stood back by their ambulance while the young man and I worked.

I do believe the Rangers will dig all the way to the bottom of this fiasco.

I think they will also.

[Mule 11]

Looking forward to evidence based truth without the pontificating and chest pounding... And a sad day in America when our most valuable are left undefended as I see it by Unamerican bureaucrats who act as if they care...

[Dee]

Perhaps on another thread it was said that the school chief was not cooperating with investigating Rangers. Not so, he is in contact daily.

[billy_56081]

Perhaps on another thread it was said that the school chief was not cooperating with investigating Rangers. Not so, he is in contact daily.

Do you have a link?

[Dee]

Yes I do.

[ironglow]

  If the second unit of law enforcement was able to gain access with the janitor's key, why could not the same thing been done to by the first arrived group of of officers ?

[Dee]

Have you considered that the room was entered just as soon as the janitor having the keys was located? There are eight schools in the district, and it's possible that the janitor was else where, other than the shooting location.
I suspect that the keys were located shortly after Border Patrol SWAT arrival.

I'm very disappointed that the Texas Department of Public Safety has released unconfirmed, and many times false information, and then had to clean it up, and reverse their own press releases.

A Border Patrol agent NOT on the SWAT team arrived before the SWAT team and was allowed into the school to get his child, and help. He described the scene as chaos.

Organizing chaos into one direction, isn't as easy as some may think.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup this isnt about the children from the left. its about defund the police and take away guns. It was brought up day one by biden. Nothing about school security. Matter of fact he said he wasnt behind any money spent on that. That really blew my mind. Hell if they did hire armed guards theyd probably have to all be black gay transvestite womentha signed a paper saying they dont believe in God and will never say the pledge of allegiance and after all of that are willing to die for those students and my guess is there aint to many like that in TEXAS.

The Uvalde Texas Independent School District like so many other school districts nationwide, chose to ignore the trend of hardening their schools.
Unlocked, even proped open none secure doors. No security fences, no on duty armed security officers for each of its EIGHT schools.
And a refusal to participate in a State of Texas program called "The Guardian Plan" where teachers, and staff receive free training to go armed at school to further protect themselves, and students. .

Just as in other school shootings of the past,, news media, the general public,  and politicians focus on "the police response failures", "mental health"  and of course "gun control".

This one is no different. Even so-called conservatives here on GBO have done the same. Blame the police for its response failures, and kick around things like "mental health examinations", and 18 year olds restrictions on buying high capacity rifles. I.E. GUN CONTROL!

IN TRUTH!

Had the Uvalde Independent School District heeded continued warnings, by installing security doors, and windows, hired armed and trained security guards, installed high security fences with locked gates, and taken advantage of State sanctioned programs such as the "Guardian Plan", this likely would not have happened.

I would guess that like most school districts in Texas and other places, literal fortunes were spent instead, on SPORTS.

WE NOW HAVE A PRESIDENT, AND CONGRESS THAT WOULD RELISH THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE YOUR MENTAL STATE AND DECIDE WHETHER YOUR FIT TO OWN A FIREARM.

AND WE NOW HAVE A PRESIDENT, AND CONGRESS THAT WOULD "LOVE" TO BAN 18 YEAR OLDS FROM PURCHASING HIGH CAPACITY RIFLES.

SO, CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

THE BIDEN REGIME HAS A CERTAIN NUMBER OF THE POPULATIONS EAR, AND SPENT 8 HOURS IN UVALDE WHERE HE WAS WELCOMED.


Living in "A FREE SOCIETY" requires self protection, and vigilance.

Your government, if you haven't noticed, never gives anything back it takes.

If the attitudes here on GBO are any indication of the rest of the country, this schoo shooting in Uvalde Texas will give the left what they've been after for a long time.

OUR FREEDOM.

[BUGEYE]

  If the second unit of law enforcement was able to gain access with the janitor's key, why could not the same thing been done to by the first arrived group of of officers ?

The custodian/s and all the office staff have keys and the doors are usually keyed alike so every teacher would have a key, all the doors in schools open out and the first responders had a shield.
There is no excuse on this earth to justify the delay while CHILDREN were being murdered.

[Graybeard]

OK, now I'm gonna hafta be the one to ask for the link to back up those claims.