Greek revival

[ironglow]

There is a new religion rising amongth efar left greenies

   I was not jesting when I spoke of the "green religion". Leftists have often quoted some old phony, saying.. "if man had no god, he would have to create one"! Well, some of the more radical greenies have adopted the religion centered upon Gaia. Gaia is an old 'goddess', dug up from Greek mythology. A sort of mother-earth-creator, worshipped by many enviro-whackos. She is a big hit with militant feminists also. Even Ao Gore has referred to her in passing. So, since the left has rejected the true God...old Beelzebub has furnished them another.. Amazon and Esty offer Gaia idols for their own home altar. Perhaps Baal and his consort Asherah, are next... Below see videos for worshippers.

  It seems that manyof the Unitarians have taken up Gaia worship.  Here, for instance are some of the Gaia centers in Massachusetts. https://www.google.com/search?q=gaia+religious+services+in+massachusetts.
   &rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS966US966&ei=RxmrYpPoFvqJptQP_OC82Aw&ved=0ahUKEwjTp-WT9LH4AhX6hIkEHXwwD8sQ4dUDCA4&oq=gaia+religious+services+in+massachusetts&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAw6BQghEKsCOgUIIRCgAToICCEQHhAWEB06BQghEJIDSgQIQRgBSgQIRhgAUOAEWKYwYL5EaAFwAHgAgAGuAYgB_BCSAQQwLjE3mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz 

[ironglow]

  Gentlemen;
  We are entering a new "dark age", when the tenets of our constitution, and the very faith that founded this nation are under attack by neo-paganism.
  Since the USA seems to be the last, best hope for the freedom of mankind, the world apparently is in jeopardy.

  Even our national "leaders" seem to be caughtup in this neo-paganism, or some of the dark ideas it promotes.  I will leave you with a reminder ...    https://gaiacommunity.org/

[darkgael]

IG: “ and the very faith that founded this nation”……
What faith was that? Not to be purposely difficult, the subject of the role of Christianity in the founding of this country has a long and contentious history.

[ironglow]

IG: “ and the very faith that founded this nation”……
What faith was that? Not to be purposely difficult, the subject of the role of Christianity in the founding of this country has a long and contentious history.

   See my reply #40, under.."Can Christianized Russia save..."

[darkgael]

IG: “ and the very faith that founded this nation”……
What faith was that? Not to be purposely difficult, the subject of the role of Christianity in the founding of this country has a long and contentious history.

   See my reply #40, under.."Can Christianized Russia save..."

I did read that. You left out the Constitution when you were citing founding ideas. Is that not the primary document upon which this country is founded. The literal law of the land.

[ironglow]

IG: “ and the very faith that founded this nation”……
What faith was that? Not to be purposely difficult, the subject of the role of Christianity in the founding of this country has a long and contentious history.

   See my reply #40, under.."Can Christianized Russia save..."

I did read that. You left out the Constitution when you were citing founding ideas. Is that not the primary document upon which this country is founded. The literal law of the land.

  Yes; but I figured any American would be entirely aware of, and well attuned to our Constitution..especially the Bill of Rights.. Thus, no need to reiterate it !

[BUGEYE]

I know of a church in New Orleans that is becoming like what you describe.
The preacher is Lindsay's former MIL.

[Mule 11]

IG: “ and the very faith that founded this nation”……
What faith was that? Not to be purposely difficult, the subject of the role of Christianity in the founding of this country has a long and contentious history.

   See my reply #40, under.."Can Christianized Russia save..."

I did read that. You left out the Constitution when you were citing founding ideas. Is that not the primary document upon which this country is founded. The literal law of the land.

  Yes; but I figured any American would be entirely aware of, and well attuned to our Constitution..especially the Bill of Rights.. Thus, no need to reiterate it !

Apparently, we are not all Americans though are we? And that is who “we” are speaking to and educating here. Butt, some are always right? Aren’t we?

[Ranger99]

There's lots of people in this
region that are looking for a
" religion " that doesn't have
God to hold them accountable
for their sinful ways, you know
" Do as thou wilt.  . "
I'm sure the rest of the country
is no different.
I know of a few that left
their long time church because
of them having children or
close friends or relatives who
are unrepentant sinners, and
where they left for delivers
the " Do whatever you want to-
There's no hell - heaven for
everybody.  . ." message.

Oh well.  You can lead a
horse to water and all that.  .

[darkgael]

IG: “   Yes; but I figured any American would be entirely aware of, and well attuned to our Constitution..especially the Bill of Rights.. Thus, no need to reiterate it !”
 Within the context of this discussion and your comment about the faith which founded this nation, it is necessary to note that the U.S. Constitution, the law of the land, the founding document, contains NO references to God.

As for the “do as thou wilt/do whatever you want, there’s no heaven or hell” idea. If a person needs a God and the threat of hellfire to make them accountable, then they aren’t very moral to begin with.

[ironglow]

IG: “   Yes; but I figured any American would be entirely aware of, and well attuned to our Constitution..especially the Bill of Rights.. Thus, no need to reiterate it !”
 Within the context of this discussion and your comment about the faith which founded this nation, it is necessary to note that the U.S. Constitution, the law of the land, the founding document, contains NO references to God.

As for the “do as thou wilt/do whatever you want, there’s no heaven or hell” idea. If a person needs a God and the threat of hellfire to make them accountable, then they aren’t very moral to begin with.

      One by one..
   God not mentioned in the constitution...
     In view of the statement in the Declaration of independence, was a further explanation needed?  I suspect that knowing the character of such people as George Washington, John Adams and many other founding fathers, further mention was not necessary.
  If there were any question of the value of God in daily life, they settled it with the first amendment.

[BUGEYE]

  If there were any question of the value of God in daily life, they settled it with the first amendment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This right here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ironglow]

IG: “   Yes; but I figured any American would be entirely aware of, and well attuned to our Constitution..especially the Bill of Rights.. Thus, no need to reiterate it !”
 Within the context of this discussion and your comment about the faith which founded this nation, it is necessary to note that the U.S. Constitution, the law of the land, the founding document, contains NO references to God.

As for the “do as thou wilt/do whatever you want, there’s no heaven or hell” idea. If a person needs a God and the threat of hellfire to make them accountable, then they aren’t very moral to begin with.

   

      One by one..
   God not mentioned in the constitution...
     In view of the statement in the Declaration of independence, was a further explanation needed?  I suspect that knowing the character of such people as George Washington, John Adams and many other founding fathers, further mention was not necessary.
  If there were any question of the value of God in daily life, they settled it with the first amendment.
  Perhaps it will soothe you to know that James Madison, who wrote the first draft of the constitution, and is referred to as "the father of the constitution", said this, among many similar statements :
   "If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man:To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered."

Does it say nothing that most state constitutions give praise to God, before presenting their constitution?  Interesting that  you cling to one document among hundreds which speak fav.orably of God.

Your quote:"As for the “do as thou wilt/do whatever you want, there’s no heaven or hell” idea. If a person needs a God and the threat of hellfire to make them accountable, then they aren’t very moral to begin with.

   Those people who "do as they will"..don't NEED God per se, they can choose to ignore them if they wish, but at their own peril !  He simply says, "I stand at the door and knock"...  He is not going to force his way in, He is a God of free will !  Like the old Fram oil filter ads say. "you can pay me now..or you can pay me later.."

  Speaking of "morals", from where do immoral people derive their morals ?  What is that source.

  Mostof that type believe we are simply a later edition of chimpanzees..  Chimps seem to have no "morals', just
and instinctive urge, at best..

  So, from where do this advanced race of chimps (by their own words), obtain their moral compass from?

[darkgael]

IG: “ from where do immoral people derive their morals ”…..that is a classic question. By asking it, you are connecting religious belief with our sense of right and wrong. That is not how it works.
Behavior makes you moral - for many “religion” helps people understand proper behavior and encourages them to behave appropriately. Does everyone need a religion to tell them what is right and wrong? I think not.

As far as the first amendment is concerned. Your comment indicates that you believe that it reinforces the idea of God, supporting belief. It does not say that at all.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” The amendment protects against theocracy while recognizing the right to worship.

[Bob Riebe]

If proper and improper have no absolutes, there is no such thing as proper and improper.

If humanity is just a biological accident, then there is NO proper and improper; whom ever pulls the strings decides what should or should not be.

God said: here is the facts Jack, take it or leave it but you will pay for your decision one way or the other without exceptions.

[darkgael]

If proper and improper have no absolutes, there is no such thing as proper and improper.

If humanity is just a biological accident, then there is NO proper and improper; whom ever pulls the strings decides what should or should not be.

God said: here is the facts Jack, take it or leave it but you will pay for your decision one way or the other without exceptions.

The basic moral absolute is do good avoid evil.
Humanity a biological accident? Where did that come from?

[ironglow]

If proper and improper have no absolutes, there is no such thing as proper and improper.

If humanity is just a biological accident, then there is NO proper and improper; whom ever pulls the strings decides what should or should not be.

God said: here is the facts Jack, take it or leave it but you will pay for your decision one way or the other without exceptions.

The basic moral absolute is do good avoid evil.
 
Humanity a biological accident? Where did that come from?

  There is an entire belief system that seems to insist they man is descended from primates..or if you prefer, from chimps and/or gorillas.
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=humans+related+to+chimps+or+gorillas+

 Do, since we are by some, considered modified chimps...from what was any moral code derived?

  How would a naturally descended man decide between what is right and what is wrong?

[Dixie-Dude]

If you don't accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you really don't know God.  It is just a religion you know.  It doesn't matter what denomination you are, you have to accept Jesus as your savior.  Until then, you can't argue with an atheist.  They simply do not know God through Jesus Christ.  Otherwise they would understand.  Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  No man can come to the Father except through Jesus.  All the prayer beads, hail Mary's, tradition, doesn't mean a thing, unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. 

Yes our country was founded on CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES, not a religion.  The principles.  Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, respect others, no cruel and unusual punishment, right to defend yourself and your property, are all the principles enshrined in our founding.  In 1892 a Supreme Court Justice said "America is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, and that is how our laws reflect that.

In 1960 only 10% of American claimed to be athiest.  50% attended church at least once a week.  Today probably only 20% nationwide attend church and about 20% claim to be athiest.   Not all who attend church are true Christians.  In the 1970's Billy Graham said of my generation that we were coat tail religious people.  We attended the church our parents went to, but didn't know Christ or why or what our particular church stood for.  This has carried forward in the worst way possible. 

[ironglow]

If proper and improper have no absolutes, there is no such thing as proper and improper.

If humanity is just a biological accident, then there is NO proper and improper; whom ever pulls the strings decides what should or should not be.

God said: here is the facts Jack, take it or leave it but you will pay for your decision one way or the other without exceptions.

  You said it well. Bob !

[ironglow]

If you don't accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you really don't know God.  It is just a religion you know.  It doesn't matter what denomination you are, you have to accept Jesus as your savior.  Until then, you can't argue with an atheist.  They simply do not know God through Jesus Christ.  Otherwise they would understand.  Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  No man can come to the Father except through Jesus.  All the prayer beads, hail Mary's, tradition, doesn't mean a thing, unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. 

Yes our country was founded on CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES, not a religion.  The principles.  Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, respect others, no cruel and unusual punishment, right to defend yourself and your property, are all the principles enshrined in our founding.  In 1892 a Supreme Court Justice said "America is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, and that is how our laws reflect that.

In 1960 only 10% of American claimed to be athiest.  50% attended church at least once a week.  Today probably only 20% nationwide attend church and about 20% claim to be athiest.   Not all who attend church are true Christians.  In the 1970's Billy Graham said of my generation that we were coat tail religious people.  We attended the church our parents went to, but didn't know Christ or why or what our particular church stood for.  This has carried forward in the worst way possible.

  ..Again, well sadi DD !

[ironglow]

If proper and improper have no absolutes, there is no such thing as proper and improper.

If humanity is just a biological accident, then there is NO proper and improper; whom ever pulls the strings decides what should or should not be.

God said: here is the facts Jack, take it or leave it but you will pay for your decision one way or the other without exceptions.

The basic moral absolute is do good avoid evil.
Humanity a biological accident? Where did that come from?

 Where did you get the idea that the basic moral absolute is to do good..and eschew evil.  Can you tell us where you got that from?  Where is it written, whio says so, where is that codified?

  No, we are born ready to do evil if we wish..we are born "speaking lies".

  Humanity a biological accident you ask?  There is a whole school of thought today, which says that is so...it is called "evolution" ...a fallacy first introduced and very superficially, by a fellow named Darwin.  Surely, you have  heard of that !

  Of course, if you are ready to say that mankind is no accident, I am ready to accept that, since we are part of the creator's work.

[darkgael]

IG: From where did I get the “do good avoid evil” idea? Well, the idea is basic to the study of ethics. Look around. Google will help, I suppose.

“ Humanity a biological accident you ask?  There is a whole school of thought today, which says that is so...it is called "evolution" ...a fallacy first introduced and very superficially, by a fellow named Darwin.  Surely, you have  heard of that !”
Alas. The fact that you mention Darwin tells me that your understanding of the processes that are called evolution is stunted. The fact that you consider that “whole school of thought” fallacious tells me that, unfortunately, it is not worth pursuing the idea with you.
Note:” The fact that evolution occurs and is responsible for speciation is settled science. The entire modern understanding of biology rests on evolution. We observe it happening, we can model and predict it, we see evidence of it in everything from genetics to population dynamics to the historical record.” quote from an individual who said it better than I can.

[Dixie-Dude]

Mutation and evolution are two different things.  Many species today have mutated, but they are still the same species. 

[ironglow]

  From DG;
   "Note:” The fact that evolution occurs and is responsible for speciation is settled science. The entire modern understanding of biology rests on evolution. We observe it happening, we can model and predict it, we see evidence of it in everything from genetics to population dynamics to the historical record.” quote from an individual who said it better than I can."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Not real science! True science is never truly "settled", it is always inquiring and searching.  There was a time when some "scientists' thought Piltdown man and Nebraska man were "settled science".
  There was a time when some scientists thought we were in a static universe..then along came the "big bang",
 possibly the moment of creation.
  If you are stuck in a stationary rut of evolution, you may just be behind the curve.

  Try broadening your horizon..   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_8PPO-cAlA

  At least view the introduction..   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71dqAFUb-v0

  Not all scientists are content with "settled", they are continually learning, seeking..not stuck in a rut!

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YngarAhh0M&list=PLEF8SE2Sg-_zwBbiEgx_CmvCdR7cD8tgX

[darkgael]

IG: you reacted very strongly to ”settled science”. The point there was to avoid the tired and wrong comments like ”evolution is just a theory.”
I am continually amazed when someone marches out Piltdown Man from more than a century ago and uses it as if it were evidence and totally ignores the vast body of real evidence that has accumulated since.
“Behind the curve”….lol.
I am familiar with Stephen Meyer. (I have his book “Signature in the Cell”). There is no science there. Real science starts with a hypothesis and then moves toward a conclusion by testing facts and observing the results. Mr. Meyer starts with a conclusion and then tries to find facts that fit, ignoring any that do not.

[ironglow]

  I can recall in my lifetime when in grade school, and the teacher explained the "cell". She drew a circle on the blackboard with a dark dot in the center.  She explained..the circle represents the cell, and the dark spot is the nucleus.

  So I ask..'what is in the nucleus'?  She could not tell me..  So I continue.."what is in the rest of the cell"?

  The best and final explanation she had was "protoplasm". Not her fault, that was likely the best explanation she had at the time..

  Now, when we see Dr James Tour's, or Michael Behe's explanation of of the cell, one can see that we have learned much since then, but this is no time to be smug, since there is likely much more to learn.

   You say Dr Meyers explanations are not science..guess that depends upon where one starts to begin with, but he proves that organisms are far too complex to have been an accident from mixed chemicals and a lightning strike.
  Some "scientists" who simply because of pride cannot accept special creation, make up wild tales to cover the gaps.  Take Sir Francis Crick and "Panspermia"..

 It takes a lot more "faith" to believe that science fiction story, than to simply believe God's word..

[darkgael]

IG: ”he proves that organisms are far too complex to have been an accident from mixed chemicals and a lightning strike”
Does he now? Meyer’s response is an argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy. He offers no proof that cannot be disputed. “These things are so complex that they had to have been done by God.” The odds are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible. And so on.
The odds are pretty long for a successful single event…true. There was an entire world covered in a primordial soup. Not one reaction…..billions of reactions over billions of years.
Note also that complex organisms were not the result. Simple organisms were.

[Dixie-Dude]

Even Einstein said that the universe and atoms and the math involved are so complex that it proves that a higher power is behind it.  Thus he of course being Jewish, believed in God.  There are absolute laws of physics that could not have just happened. 

Whales, dolphins, elephants, all have or had larger brains than humans.  They have not built rockets, airplanes, etc.  There are some humans today with smaller brains than chimps or gorillas, yet they have intelligence far beyond the great apes.  Humans have a soul, animals do not. 

[ironglow]

 
  I have always heard that any hypothesis to become "settles', it must be proven, and if it has not been demonstrated, it is still nothing more than a hypothesis.

  How many thousands of "scientists" have tried the provided formula..and came up with a big, fat cipher?

  I think you may have read Meyer's book with only an effort toward cynicism in mind.   

  Do you like numbers instead, perhaps you would like to check with Dr John Lennox..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6rd4HEdffw

  Lennox is PhD mathematics, philosophy etc...Oxford and etc.   He says the numbers don't work for the materialists.

  I see we are at an impasse here, each having a hypothesis, but neither being able to prove it in a purely materialistic sense, which seems to be what you are searching for..

  I suggest a man is composed of body, mind and spirit..the materialist seems to only see a man a san opaque body/mind...thing. Even then for myself, the very fact of having a mind and being conscious, suggests something of a spiritual nature.

  Then there is the very elevation of mankind.  According to God, man is made "in the image of God".
  Have you noticed th egulf between mankind and animals?  Have you ever noticed your dog or other pet, and wondered at what he was thinking?
  I have, an dI suspect may have.  Perhaps old Rover would like to tell us, but even though he has had just as long to 'eveolve ' as we have, he still cannot converse with us.  He can't fix a lawnmower, is lost when it comes to making a casserole..and doesn't seem much concerned with tomorrow..or what is happening next week.

  I speak of all the more highly intelligent animals, from dog to hogs, to dolphins and apes.. On a line graph, the intelligence and conscious level between them and any human would look like a flat prairie..with a space ship taking off on one end... which is why God charges us with being "stewards" of this world..

  OK..enough preaching..guess we will just have to agree to disagree..

[Dixie-Dude]

A university of Tennessee geology professor who was agnostic became a Christian because of granite rock.  Granite rock is composed of 5% uranium.  The uranium is scattered through the rock like bubbles in an Alka-Selzer.  He said they did a multitude of test on the rock.  Heating it to volcanic temperatures.  Then freezing it to absolute zero.  He said after all the test that the only way granite rock could have formed was to be created instantly, not over millions of years.  He said it was like it was a bubbling Alka-Selzer that was frozen instantly with the bubbles inside.  There was no way they could recreate it once it was melted.  They could not get the uranium back into the melted rock exactly like they found it.  Thus he began to believe in God the creator. 

My wife studied geology in college.  She helped her professor do some research.  She found by carbon dating rocks that they were only 8-10,000 years old.  She wrote her findings and even double checked them.  Her professor when writing his papers fudged the numbers to millions not thousands.  She saw this first hand.  As a side note, they found the people checking global temperatures fudged the temps 1-2 degrees to push the global warming narrative.  History records the earth has been hotter as well as colder over the centuries. 

People forget there was a great flood during Noah's time that distorted the landforms and had mass killings of various pre-historic creatures.  Another oddity, is the T-rex dinosaur's DNA is closest to a chicken.  Strange. 

Another famous scientist from England, and I can't think of his name, said there was far more evidence to prove creation than evolution.  His voice was suppressed.