Author Topic: How history gets messed over..  (Read 774 times)

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Offline ironglow

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How history gets messed over..
« on: June 17, 2022, 03:40:01 PM »
  As we look at history, the most cited sources may well be corrupted.  It takes a bit more diligent examination to dig the truth out.  Here is the beginning, an example of one slanted version within our memories..

   In January, 1986, the space shuttle Challenger blew up shortly after lift off.  The entire crew of course, died.
  How many of that crew's names can you remember?  If you can remember only the lone female's name, Sally Ride..join the crowd!  Were those other crew members less worthy to be remembered?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    A few more examples;

 1)  How did the original, 1621 settlers of Plymouth refer to themselves?  If you said Puritans..give yourself a
    goose egg.  Although they also informally called themselves "pilgrims", the more formal title would be
    "Seperatists". The name comes from the fact that this group wanted to break clean away from the Church of
   England, while the Puritans only wanted to reform, or "purify' that church.
     Although the Puritans did eventually, take over the Plymouth colony..they were not the original settlers.

2) The Boston Tea Party was the first action against British shipping, which was committed by the colonists.
   Not so.  Nearly 1&1/2 years previous, the colonists baited the 8 gun schooner "Gaspee" up the river that runs through Providence, RI.  A small craft baited the Gaspee into a chase, and led it to where it grouinded.
  They then managed to set the schooner afire and burned it to the waterline.

 3) The Bostin massacre..  Bostonians were so irate that an unruly crowd gathered, and through mob action, were threatening primarily inexperienced British troops ( Kent State anyone?)  After some rifle butt use..one of the panicky troops fired..others followed, and 5 bostonians were killed.
  Five killed..can you remember their names?  If you can only recall one...Crispus Attucks, the only black man inthe crowd..you are like much of America.
  BTW: Those troops were brought before a colonial court...and exhonorated !  Here's the kicker..the winning
  lawyer for the defense..none other than John Adams !

   Just a few examples...
     A closer look at the "Indian Wars" may produce many.  It has been said that, history is written by the victors,
   and this is for the most part true..  JHowever, in their zeal to couter this effect, some apologists go perhaps too
  far in the opposite direction, and lose some credibility.

  Need an Example?  A TV mini series called "500 Nations"..
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: HJow history gets messed over..
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2022, 04:55:00 PM »
My memory has gotten so bad that I quit trying to remember details of anything in history.
I made a long pause here and tried to remember breakfast.
Turns out it was a toasted bagel and cream cheese.

Please don’t give us a pop quiz. ;D
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2022, 05:02:03 PM »
  No obligation to answer .. :D ;D  My geezer memory problems so far, seems to center on remembering names,

  Not so much, names like Nathan Hale, Thutmos II or Pastor Niemoller..but somebody I met 2 hours ago, or worked with 20 years ago.  :D ;D :P
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Ranger99

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2022, 05:24:06 PM »
A good bit depends on your education
during your younger years.
I did really well in history and some
other subjects. Not so great in math.
Yet I can count money and do simple
math in my head way better than many
1/3 my age.  Not long after my oldest
niece graduated high school, we were
discussing Texas, and she wasn't
sure where the Alamo was.
Another young relative just graduated
a few days ago, and many of the
students were very ignorant of things
I felt everyone should know offhand.
Many were essentially functional illiterates,
and just coming off 12 years of school.

Compared to many of the very young
people I come in contact with, I  feel
like a genius even though I felt I was
just an average student
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 02:49:00 AM »
  It is the brainwashing brought on by the Orwellian "education system".  In this short video, we seem to find among many,  only one woman who still has her head on straight..

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJQ3z0mXj8A
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline oldandslow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 04:06:57 AM »
History as told being true? Try reading up on Billy The Kid, Wyatt Earp, Deadwood, or other old west history. Multiple "true" stories that have little in common. As far as movies and TV go they are entertaining but most have little to do with history. Even the history of the Alamo gets seriously scrambled in movies and TV. Only the one's that lived the events knew what actually happened and some of them had a tendency to embellish facts or out right lie about them.

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2022, 04:46:19 AM »
So IG,,,
I know you're a history buff.
And here's a different take on the world's largest land war ever on earth _ _ Operation Barbarrossa...

https://www.revolver.news/2022/06/everything-you-never-knew-about-nazi-vs-soviet-operation-barbarrosa-biggest-land-war-ever-fought/

.
.

  Yes; Operation Barbarossa..one of the extreme acts of treachery.  The Soviets were not nearly as well prepared for war as was Germany (nor were we).  They colluded together to carve up and share Poland, but hitler in his devious manner decided to, betray his deal.
   Operation Barbarossa, named after the  great12th century  conqueror and  German Emperor, Fredrick I , who was nicknamed Barbarossa..meaning Red Beard.

  Hitler turned on Stalin..figuring to walk through Soviet defensives in 3 months...but he was surprised..by the Russian people..and the Russian T34 tank..one of best of WW2.

  The Russian people showed great ingenuity..too bad their leaders did not always listen to the people. The frigid winters and the vast expanse of the Soviet Union also played a huge part in the German defeat.  Stalin employed the "scorched earth" policy, ignoring the plight of the peasants.

  At the Battle of Kursk..largest tank battle ever, Hitler introduced his mighty Tiger tank.  During the day the mud would thaw and become a regular "hog mire".
  Then at night the temperatures would drop over the Russian steppes, turning the mud to a frozen mass. Cleverly, the Russians often hit overnight parked German tank formations, at the crack of dawn..the Tigers 'frozen in place'..

  Notice hw the idler wheels on the German tanks overlapped..bad news when the mud freezes solid..

  At the greatest tank battle ever, near Kursk
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2022, 08:01:43 AM »
  I very much doubt there can be many Nazis of any substance in the Ukraine, since the Ukraine also suffered under the Nazi yoke.I believe the Nazis in Ukraine must be the equivalent of "white supremacists" in America, not enough to make a movement.. 
    Surely, if there was any real Nazi strength building in the Ukraine, the rest of the nations..Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovenia France, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, and the UK would be sounding the alarm, since they also suffered under Nazi agression!  In fact, if such were true, next door Poland would have a very prominent excuse to attack Ukraine, but instead..they are welcoming Ukranian refugees by the millions.

  Almost certainly..if there were a Nazi resurgence anywhere, Israel and the Jewish media would have been warning us for decades.  After all, they probably have more to lose from any such rebirth, than any other demographic!

  Sorry, but the claim of a Nazi behind every bush in the Ukraine, is beginning to sound like some folks here, who see a "racist" behind every shrub.  ..It's getting so they provoke nothing more than extreme ennui !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline TrumpWon

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 08:24:31 AM »
It was Christa McAuliffe that died in the Challenger

Offline TrumpWon

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2022, 09:19:14 AM »
It’s extreme for Nazis to let a Jew become president  :)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 12:49:09 PM »
It was Christa McAuliffe that died in the Challenger

  OK..I was wrong..shows how much I follow the minutia of such events!  ...But you did remember!  You mentioned Christa NcAuliffe's name ..but didn't mention the names of other crew members...

 See what I mean...the beat goes on !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2022, 12:50:36 PM »
It’s extreme for Nazis to let a Jew become president  :)

   Yes1 Factual..Zelensky is a Jew...  How did that happen without an internecine struggle?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2022, 02:13:42 PM »
Anyway...back to the OP  How history gets messed over..

     This month they celebrate "Juneteenth" observance.  This morning on two different news casts, I heard the  announcer say that Pres Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, in 1865 !

  Right off, I knew they must have been dreaming..  President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in January 1863!

  He did oit because that was his aim..and to snarl things up more for the Confederacy.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mcbammer

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2022, 02:21:18 PM »
You can certainly be a Nazi idealoque and a Jew.
Hitler had jewish blood and so did some of his top command. There were 150,000 jewish troops in the Wehrmacht. George Soros was a Jew who worked closely with German nazies selling out fellow jews, gypsies and catholics.

In fact, there's a group of jews fully indebted to Hitler for his role in creating Israel. And I wonder if Zelenskyy's design is to ethnically scrub Ukraine and prepare for new Kharsaria kingdom!?
.
The story on Hitler as told us by my late aunt  by marriage who grew up in Vienna, Austria  Along the time of Hitlers rise to power  , is Hitlers mother was a housekeeper who worked for a family of wealthy Jews .  She was raped by the Jew man and became pregnant with Hitler . Thus Hitlers hatred for jews .

Offline Mule 11

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2022, 02:25:36 PM »
No. All Jews are perfect... soreass was more than happy to send other “Jews” to camp for extermination and gladly profited. Hitler did have a Jewish heritage from what I’ve read. So, yeah. All, Jews are perfect in every way.

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2022, 02:27:40 PM »
You can certainly be a Nazi idealoque and a Jew.
Hitler had jewish blood and so did some of his top command. There were 150,000 jewish troops in the Wehrmacht. George Soros was a Jew who worked closely with German nazies selling out fellow jews, gypsies and catholics.

In fact, there's a group of jews fully indebted to Hitler for his role in creating Israel. And I wonder if Zelenskyy's design is to ethnically scrub Ukraine and prepare for new Kharsaria kingdom!?
.
The story on Hitler as told us by my late aunt  by marriage who grew up in Vienna, Austria  Along the time of Hitlers rise to power  , is Hitlers mother was a housekeeper who worked for a family of wealthy Jews .  She was raped by the Jew man and became pregnant with Hitler . Thus Hitlers hatred for jews .

  ..But that would mean Hitler must have been filled with self-hatred...very possible...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mcbammer

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2022, 03:53:42 AM »


  ..But that would mean Hitler must have been filled with self-hatred...very possible...
I dont think he was filled with self hatred , but resentment from abusive treatment from the Jew man that fathered him . You know the saying , treated like a red headed step child .

Offline Mule 11

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2022, 04:37:50 AM »
From my understanding he was a trench soldier in WW1 and he blamed Jews for Germany’s surrender.

Offline mcbammer

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2022, 04:58:36 AM »
From my understanding he was a trench soldier in WW1 and he blamed Jews for Germany’s surrender.
True he was in WW1 ,  I believe whatever hatred he had was instilled in him at a young age  and manifested as he got older .

Offline phalanx

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2022, 06:37:52 AM »
From my understanding he was a trench soldier in WW1 and he blamed Jews for Germany’s surrender.
True he was in WW1 ,  I believe whatever hatred he had was instilled in him at a young age  and manifested as he got older .

Hitler also got gassed in the trenches of WW1. Mustard gas, it nearly killed the young corporal.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2022, 07:59:38 AM »


  ..But that would mean Hitler must have been filled with self-hatred...very possible...
I dont think he was filled with self hatred , but resentment from abusive treatment from the Jew man that fathered him . You know the saying , treated like a red headed step child .

   If Hitler hated all Jews, because of this one man, then he MUST have hated himself, being half Jewish!

  Some  investigator-writers seem to think any Jewish blood came through his father, Alois Shickelgruber.
   
    Israelis deny any such "roots", while the Russians are currently pushing the narrative.

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rosenbaum-hitler.html

  Most authors on the subject consider it a "conspiracy theory".  In any case, blaming any demographic for the crimes of one man, is ludicrous.
  So some guy of Irish descent, robs a grocery store..does that make all people of Irish heritage robbers?
  Right at the outset, that is a stupid deduction.

  Can a Jew be a traitor to his own people?  Sure, like one from any ethnic subset, that can happen, otherwise we would hear nothing of George Soros.  There were even some' Kapos', who lived a bit longer in Hitler's genocide compounds, by way of herding and mistreating fellow prisoners.

   IMO...Trying to explain the thought processes of somebody like Hitler, is best accomplished by considering the idea of Satanic possession.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mule 11

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2022, 08:04:04 AM »
If someone like Hitler were in power today there would be many men and women who would willingly do his bidding.
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2022, 10:56:43 AM »
From my understanding he was a trench soldier in WW1 and he blamed Jews for Germany’s surrender.
True he was in WW1 ,  I believe whatever hatred he had was instilled in him at a young age  and manifested as he got older .

Hitler also got gassed in the trenches of WW1. Mustard gas, it nearly killed the young corporal.
  My Grandfather was gassed to  . As a kid , I use to play with his old gas mask he brought back  from France  with him .

Offline Mule 11

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2022, 11:29:55 AM »
From my understanding he was a trench soldier in WW1 and he blamed Jews for Germany’s surrender.
True he was in WW1 ,  I believe whatever hatred he had was instilled in him at a young age  and manifested as he got older .

Hitler also got gassed in the trenches of WW1. Mustard gas, it nearly killed the young corporal.
  My Grandfather was gassed to  . As a kid , I use to play with his old gas mask he brought back  from France  with him .

Did he teach you how to use it? When I was taught it was more of a torture session. I learned but I doubt that most did. On its use and effectiveness, that is. From what I have read, true or not, some countries have a (if ya paid attention and do it right) you live. We just got gassed for the hell of it. Different gas I’m sure.

Offline mcbammer

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2022, 12:49:34 PM »
Quote from: Mule 11 l
[/quote
  My Grandfather was gassed to  . As a kid , I use to play with his old gas mask he brought back  from France  with him .

Did he teach you how to use it? When I was taught it was more of a torture session. I learned but I doubt that most did. On its use and effectiveness, that is. From what I have read, true or not, some countries have a (if ya paid attention and do it right) you live. We just got gassed for the hell of it. Different gas I’m sure.
[/quote]  Nah , it was leather and dried out .I got a lot of questions  today that  I  wish  I would have asked back  when he was still living .

Offline ironglow

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Re: How history gets messed over..
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2022, 12:50:42 AM »
  Mule, you didn't indicate if you were mask trained by the military or some other entity.  From my experience with the military, the most uncomfortable part was holding my breath long enough to take the mask out, put it on..and I better have saved enough air to clear it !
   Today of course, they are not just "gas" masks, but CBR capable .  They are helpful when confronted with chemical, biological or radioactive dust.

  While your instructors may have gassed you "just for the HeII of it"..the military..esp Army, Marines and Spec ops.. have a good, logical reason for such training.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)