Door Was Unlocked

[Buckskin]

I almost hate to bring up this subject again, but the fact is that the classroom door at Uvalde School was unlocked while the police waited for a key for over an hour.   Abysmal derelict of duty by these police officers and I'm not sure how they can sleep at night knowing they literally let children die that day. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-official-uvalde-classroom-door-unlocked-shooting-officers-waited-keys

[DDZ]

The whole thing from the beginning to end arises a lot of questions.  The shooter had time to find the open door/doors, after wrecking his truck, and shooting at people at a funeral home.  It is not normal for police to wait around in a hallway for the amount of time they did, just because they didn't have a key.  Its not normal for any cop to wait in a hallway even under orders, while kids were being shot in a classroom.  I don't care what the situation was. That just wasn't normal actions. Don't have a key is the most lamest excuse I ever heard.

[Graybeard]

I'm not allowed to read on FOX, would you mind copying and pasting the article so I can read it?

[DDZ]

Texas official: Uvalde classroom door unlocked during shooting as officers waited for keys: 'Abject failure'
Texas public safety chief says Uvalde police could have stopped Robb Elementary shooting within three minutes
Danielle Wallace
By Danielle Wallace | Fox News

Texas officials testify on Uvalde school shooting

The head of the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday that Uvalde police could have stopped the mass shooting at Robb Elementary within three minutes, calling their response an "abject failure."

Testifying before a special Texas Senate committee hearing, Col. Steve McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, told lawmakers that "There is compelling evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at Robb Elementary was an abject failure and antithetical to everything we’ve learned over the last two decades since the Columbine massacre."

"Three minutes after the suspect entered the west building, there was a sufficient number of armed officers wearing body armor to isolate, distract, and neutralize the subject," he said. "The only thing stopping a hallway of dedicated officers from entering Room 111, and 112, was the on-scene commander, who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children."

McCraw on Tuesday again placed blamed on Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde school district police chief, for deciding to put the lives of officers ahead of children’s lives.

UVALDE SHOOTING: TEXAS DPS OFFICIALS BRING ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL DOOR INTO STATE CAPITOL AHEAD OF HEARING

His remarks are the first public comments McCraw has made regarding the shooting since last month.

"The officers had weapons, while the children had none. The officers had body armor, the children had none. The officers had training, the subject had none," McCraw said Tuesday. "One hour, 14 minutes and eight seconds. That’s how long the children waited, and the teachers waited, in Room 111 to be rescued. And while they waited, the on-scene commander waited for radio and rifles. And he waited for shields, and he waited for SWAT. Lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed."
The Robb Elementary School sign is seen covered in flowers and gifts on June 17, 2022 in Uvalde, Texas.

The Robb Elementary School sign is seen covered in flowers and gifts on June 17, 2022 in Uvalde, Texas.  (Brandon Bell/Getty Images)

The classroom door, which Fox News Digital first reported was physically brought into the state capitol for Tuesday's hearing, was unlocked, but officers never even tried to open it, McCraw said.

"We set our profession back a decade," he said.

McCraw testified that on video, he never saw anyone put a hand on the door before the keys arrived. Yet, he said it turns out the classroom door could not be locked from the inside.

The public safety chief began Tuesday by outlining for the Special Committee to Protect All Texans a series of missed opportunities, communication breakdowns and other mistakes.
Robb Elementary School classroom door carried into Texas capitol for state Senate special hearing on Uvalde mass shooting

Robb Elementary School classroom door carried into Texas capitol for state Senate special hearing on Uvalde mass shooting (Fox News Digital)

McCraw said officers with rifles stood and waited in a school hallway for nearly an hour while the 18-year-old gunman carried out the attack using an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle.

Eight minutes after the shooter entered the building, an officer reported that police had a "hooligan" crowbar that they could use to break down the classroom door, McGraw said.

Nineteen minutes after the gunman entered, the first ballistic shield was brought into the building by police, the witness testified.
A window washer work around the town square, Thursday, June 9, 2022, in Uvalde, Texas.

A window washer work around the town square, Thursday, June 9, 2022, in Uvalde, Texas.  ((AP Photo/Eric Gay))

"It has been reported that he didn’t have a radio with him. That’s true. He did not," McCraw said of Arredondo.

In addition, McCraw said police and sheriff’s radios did not work within the school; only the radios of Border Patrol agents on the scene worked inside the school, and even they did not work perfectly.

Three days after the May 24 attack that left 19 children and two teachers dead, McCraw publicly admitted that Arredondo made "the wrong decision" when he chose not to storm the classroom for more than 70 minutes, even as trapped fourth graders inside two classrooms were desperately calling 911 for help and anguished parents outside the school urged officers to go inside.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

Arredondo later said he didn’t consider himself the person in charge and assumed someone else had taken control of the law enforcement response.

[Graybeard]

I found the story on NBC News:

June 21, 2022, 10:17 AM CDT / Updated June 21, 2022, 2:01 PM CDT
By David K. Li

A door to a classroom where the Uvalde school shooter was holed up was unlocked while police searched for a key to get in, a top Texas official said Tuesday, describing law enforcement's response to the rampage as an “abject failure.”

The admission from Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw, made at a state Senate committee hearing investigating last month’s mass killing, was another stunning addition to the list of failures he has acknowledged since the Robb Elementary School shooting.

"We do know this, there's compelling evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at Robb Elementary was an abject failure and antithetical to everything we've learned over the last two decades since the Columbine massacre," he told lawmakers.


Officers had rifles 19 minutes after Uvalde shooting started: Report
JUNE 21, 202202:25

McCraw bluntly said the lives of police officers were valued more than those of children as gunfire tore through that south Texas campus on May 24.

"The only thing stopping a hallway of dedicated officers from (entering rooms) 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children," he said. "The officers have weapons, the children had none. The officers had body armor, the children had none. The officers had training, the subject had none."

It’s been nearly one month since the gunman, Salvador  Rolando Ramos, 18, broke into Robb Elementary School and killed 19 children and two teachers.

The carnage ended more than an hour after it started, when a Border Patrol tactical unit finally broke into the classroom where the gunman was holed up and killed him.

After the gunman crashed his truck at 11:28 a.m. that day near the school, he entered the campus at 11:33 a.m., according to McCraw.

“And he begins shooting … more than 100 rounds were fired initially," he said.

Much of the post-shooting attention has been on the response of local law enforcement and decisions made by Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District police chief.


Uvalde school police chief speaks out in first interview since mass shooting
JUNE 10, 202202:00

McCraw, in painstaking detail, went minute by minute explaining how police could have entered the unlocked room where the shooter was.

In the initial days after the shooting, it was widely reported that police were kept from breaking into the classrooms and were looking for keys because of locked doors.

McCraw confirmed recent published reports that the adjoining classrooms are only locked from the outside, so the shooter, or anyone, could have entered.

"There's no way to lock the door from the inside and there's no way for the subject to lock the door from the inside," he said.

There were 11 police officers in the school at 11:36 a.m. — three minutes after the gunman had entered the campus and could have been confronted, according to McCraw.

"I’ve alternated from sad to disappointed to flat-out angry when I read this timeline because it’s an absolute, total breakdown of any command and control," state Sen. Paul Bettencourt said. "This is a textbook example of it."

[DDZ]

Here is a news clip.
One person testified that there were enough officers on scene to stop the shooter 3 minutes after he entered the school. 

A little girl called four times from in the classroom. Once at 12:03, again at 12:10. again at 12:13, and last at 12:16 saying there were still 8 or 9 still alive.  Could you imagine the horror this girl and others had to deal with, and she still had the ability and courage to make four calls, all the while the police huddled in the hallway with their riot gear.  This wasn't a highly trained shooter in the room. It was some 18 year old POS that probably never shot a rifle in his life until that day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-TJcGE4RdQ

[BUGEYE]

Well, to start with, classrooms CAN be locked from the inside.
You merely turn the deadbolt with the lever or equivalent.
Otherwise how could classes be locked down in case of emergency??

But, The principal, the veep, and every custodian has a master key.
Also, every school office has a key box with a key (clearly marked) for every classroom.

There was clearly no excuse for allowing CHILDREN to be butchered (I say butchered because one little girl could only be identified by her green tennis shoes) except, they were cowards.

JESUS said, No greater love has man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

JESUS also said,
 Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of GOD.

[Graybeard]

Bug you have no ffffing clue what the doors in that Texas school looked like. The door was taken to the state congress for all to see it could not be locked from inside.

What is your problem, why do you keep insisting you know what the school door in Texas looked like when you've likely never been within 1000 miles of that school?

Your pretense you know what doors in that far away Texas school look and work like is getting old. You do not, cannot know what that door looked like or worked like.

[BUGEYE]

Bug you have no ffffing clue what the doors in that Texas school looked like. The door was taken to the state congress for all to see it could not be locked from inside.

What is your problem, why do you keep insisting you know what the school door in Texas looked like when you've likely never been within 1000 miles of that school?

Your pretense you know what doors in that far away Texas school look and work like is getting old. You do not, cannot know what that door looked like or worked like.

Common sense and years of myself and wife in different schools.
I saw the pictures the school provided which clearly shows the door and wall construction.
Schools around this country are almost identical unless it’s in a large city and even those are very similar.
If folks want to argue those points they can have at it, plus unless one is a school employee it’s doubtful that they have as much time in schools as myself.
On the other thread I stated that the cops had a shield and was taken to task for it.
Guess what, the pictures on the news clearly shows that I was right.

[TrumpWon]

I don't know anything about this particular door but I know a little about door hardware. The typical hardware on a classroom even has it's own name, "classroom hardware".  The way it functions is that the outside lever is locked and unlocked by key and the inside lever is always unlocked and always free for immediate egress.

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont trust any of the investigation coming out of this. Seems there stories change every day. Looks to me like they want a scapegoat and will fabricate anything to hang a few people to deflect away from the truth. The libs hate the police and the libs are in charge. They want to hang someone. It sure isnt going to be a union teacher or school administator that left the outside door open. To me the main fault was that door wasnt locked not the classroom door. 3 minutes and enough officers were there to stop it?? That seems awful fast unless your talking one or two officers in one patrol car. Even then 3 minutes seems like a stretch. My guess is this is just open season on scapegoats.

[ironglow]

Well, to start with, classrooms CAN be locked from the inside.
You merely turn the deadbolt with the lever or equivalent.
Otherwise how could classes be locked down in case of emergency??

But, The principal, the veep, and every custodian has a master key.
Also, every school office has a key box with a key (clearly marked) for every classroom.

There was clearly no excuse for allowing CHILDREN to be butchered (I say butchered because one little girl could only be identified by her green tennis shoes) except, they were cowards.

JESUS said, No greater love has man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

JESUS also said,
 Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of GOD.

  CAREFUL BUG !! You may get cited for quoting scripture..  You can quote Karl Marx, Jim Jones or even Adolph
   Hitler, and do it in almost any forum....but Jesus is restricted to just one forum...

  It is sad that there s not an active Army or Marine post or a SEAL detatchment nearby.  All those guys know how to gain entrance...door locked or not !

  There is the possibility that a child may have been hurt if they crashed the door, and they would have faced some discomfort if a "flash bang" grenade were used, but that is still better than all 21 dying !

  Surely, any sizeable police department has such grenades.  Would we rather the kids were somewhat traumatized or that they were killed ?

  Some of the same news reports also said that the local constabulary didn't bother to secure adjacent rooms either.

[BUGEYE]

I don't know anything about this particular door but I know a little about door hardware. The typical hardware on a classroom even has it's own name, "classroom hardware".  The way it functions is that the outside lever is locked and unlocked by key and the inside lever is always unlocked and always free for immediate egress.

If a little boy or girl needs to go to the restroom, does he/she have to knock on the door to gain entry to the room on return??
Not likely.

One news report said the door was unlocked because the shooter didn't have a key to lock it behind him.  BS
Rooms that have to be locked from the inside with a key would cause the fire inspector to have a heart attack.
If the kids have to get out in a hurry, you don't want anyone fumbling for a key.
Just common sense unless Texas is still in the stone age, which I doubt.

[oldandslow]

Actually it's  proper name is Halligan bar if you want to get down to brass tacks and so named for the man that designed it. Anyway the source for this information should know what he's talking about even if the reporter misspelled or misheard the name of the tool. A Sunday afternoon goat roping would have been better organized and carried out than this CF at the Uvalde school.

We were told to wait until the investigation was completed before blaming the police. Now we have and there is plenty of blame for all of them.

[Buckskin]

I don't know how big Uvalde is but in my town a cop could easily drive from one end to the other in 3 minutes in an emergency and the punk crashed his truck so wasn't instantly at the school.  Long and short, cops were there quickly, door was unlocked, they had the numbers and resources and still they stood by of over an hour as kids were executed.   I'm certainly not saying it's an easy job but it's what they signed up for being a cop, to be put in harm's way to protect the innocent from the filth and they failed miserably.

[O-mega]

I don't know anything about this particular door but I know a little about door hardware. The typical hardware on a classroom even has it's own name, "classroom hardware".  The way it functions is that the outside lever is locked and unlocked by key and the inside lever is always unlocked and always free for immediate egress.

If a little boy or girl needs to go to the restroom, does he/she have to knock on the door to gain entry to the room on return??
Not likely.

One news report said the door was unlocked because the shooter didn't have a key to lock it behind him.  BS
Rooms that have to be locked from the inside with a key would cause the fire inspector to have a heart attack.
If the kids have to get out in a hurry, you don't want anyone fumbling for a key.
Just common sense unless Texas is still in the stone age, which I doubt.

Doors can be locked from the inside, they just need a panic bar to exit, but the door remains locked.  I am not sure if that is what the school had, but it's possible for both to be true, but, I doubt the door was locked, as it (actually multiple doors) were easily breached by the shooter.

Actually it's  proper name is Halligan bar if you want to get down to brass tacks and so named for the man that designed it. Anyway the source for this information should know what he's talking about even if the reporter misspelled or misheard the name of the tool. A Sunday afternoon goat roping would have been better organized and carried out than this CF at the Uvalde school.

We were told to wait until the investigation was completed before blaming the police. Now we have and there is plenty of blame for all of them.

We called it a Hooligan tool, or more formally a breaching tool, at least one was on us while on the move, mine was made by Paratech, which had the federal contract to supply us with these tools, it still has a National Stock Number (NSN) so they probably still have the contract.

[oldandslow]

I don't know how big Uvalde is but in my town a cop could easily drive from one end to the other in 3 minutes in an emergency and the punk crashed his truck so wasn't instantly at the school.  Long and short, cops were there quickly, door was unlocked, they had the numbers and resources and still they stood by of over an hour as kids were executed.   I'm certainly not saying it's an easy job but it's what they signed up for being a cop, to be put in harm's way to protect the innocent from the filth and they failed miserably.

Not a large place, 15,000+ population.

[DDZ]

It was stated in the hearing that the door can not be locked from the inside. The door could only be locked from the outside with a key. Gee I wonder with the 17 different keys the police said they tried, why they didn't just giggle the handle.  If the police would have handed the parents thier guns and all their ballistic shields. Good chance the shooter would have been stopped, and some lives would have been saved.  This is the kind of thing that happens when weak men gain power.   

[phalanx]

It was stated in the hearing that the door can not be locked from the inside. The door could only be locked from the outside with a key. Gee I wonder with the 17 different keys the police said they tried, why they didn't just giggle the handle.  If the police would have handed the parents thier guns and all their ballistic shields. Good chance the shooter would have been stopped, and some lives would have been saved.  This is the kind of thing that happens when weak men gain power.

Joe Biden is that weak man. He tucks tail and hides.

[BUGEYE]

What is your problem, why do you keep insisting you know what the school door in Texas looked like when you've likely never been within 1000 miles of that school?

Actually I have.
Both Dallas and Abilene several times, plus San Antonio twice, and El Paso once.
San Antonio being our favorite.   Great Mexican restaurant on the river walk.

[ironglow]

  No need to actually LOCK t e door from the inside, why not the old "crash bar" system as used on fire escape doors?  Or is that what is meant by the Halligan bar?

  Best answer..arm qualified teachers..along with precautions already in place.

     Better training for local police... and good enough arms and equipment so they will have no excuse for not entering for when required.

[BUGEYE]

So what is the purpose of these locking classroom doors?
.....to lock kids and teachers in the classroom?

If so, the teacher would have go in the hallway and lock the door with the key, but then she or he would be separated from the kids.

There's something I'm missing here.

Buggie, perhaps you can clearly explain how these doors work and what the doors are supposed to do.
.

There’s generally two kinds of locks in use.
Both use a key on the outside and the doors swing out.
One kind just has a plain lock set, with a button in the inside knob.
The other has a lever type handle inside and outside without a lock but has a dead bolt lock usually mounted above the levers, key outside, thumb turn inside.

The doors are very heavy and can be wood or metal.
Since they swing out, they are hard to breach by a bad guy ramming his shoulder against it.
And nearly all schools have the walls built of concrete blocks with the windows being the weak point, which should be bulletproof, but school boards don’t want to spend the money to protect the CHILDREN.

Panic bars or crash bars are normally only used on the school exit doors.

[oldandslow]

(Or is that what is meant by the Halligan bar?)

A halligan bar is a tool used by firemen to open locked or stuck doors among other things.

[DDZ]

(Or is that what is meant by the Halligan bar?)

A halligan bar is a tool used by firemen to open locked or stuck doors among other things.

It was said that the police had those too. They couldn't have failed more miserably if they had tried.