Transitioning to Alternative Power - Wind

[Dixie-Dude]

I have read a lot of articles from both sides.  Here is my opinion for what it is worth.  It is going to be a long read, so I am breaking it up into sections.

I conclude that the electrical infrastructure needs to be upgraded, BEFORE electric cars come into being.  I have no problem with wind, hydro, geothermal, nuclear, and solar power, but each has it's advantage and disadvantage.

Windmills should be made from materials than can be recycled, like aluminum instead of fiberglass, so landfills won't be full of cracked fiberglass.  Windmills last 25-30 years before they have to be replaced.  They have gearing which requires oil changes at least once a year.  Gears wear down with time as well as cracks in the windmill blades under very high winds, thus the 25-30 year lifespand.  Aluminum lasts longer and can be recycled, but costs more.  The fossil fuel cost needed to make a windmill is equal from 2-5 year payback of power production, thus the longer they last, the more payback or in other words energy produced is free after the payback period other than maintenance.  Overall the cost of a windmill system is about equal to burning natural gas for power. 

One of the problems with windmills is there is a lot of power to be produced in the Great Plains, actually enough for the whole country.  Transmitting it is the problem.  Not as many people live in the plains.  Most of America lives east of the Mississippi with a large strip along the west coast.  Texas is in the best place to use wind.  However they can't perform their yearly maintenance during the middle of winter or summer like they did during the cold winter recently.  They have to do it in spring or fall.  The wind produced in west Texas can be pushed to east Texas.  Wind from say Nebraska can't be pushed to Pennsylvania. 

Offshore wind is another good way to get power.  It does cost more than ground based.  Offshore New England down to North Carolina would help the heavily populated east coast.  A lot of people don't want to go to the beach and look at offshore windmills, but if they want alternative energy, they will have to look at them.  Windmills are the lowest cost alternative energy.

Along with windmills, the grid has to be made to be protected from EMP pulses and computer hacking.  Congress estimated this protection would cost about 50-200 billion back in the early 2,000's.  A very low cost spread out over the whole country over several years. 

I am going to write about Solar Energy next. 

[BUGEYE]

Good post.
The population keeps growing and so will the demand so I can't see solar or wind being the answer.
We still need a fuel to burn in engines and I lean toward hydrogen.
But at the same time Russia and China will still be using oil and could, if so inclined, beat our butts in a war.

We just don't have the time to develop hydrogen infrastructure to be equal to a oil driven country.

[Dixie-Dude]

I'm getting to that in further discussions.

[magooch]

So far it sounds like you are talking about intermittent power--as opposed to firm power.  My preference is hydro power, or alternatively co-generation ala natural gas.  Where I live we have extremely reliable hydro and the ground is full of natural gas.  Oddly, the stupid government mandated wind power and now the reliable generation has to subsidize the stupid windmills that are idle more often than not.  And wouldn't you know it, there are some morons who want to remove some of the dams to supposedly replenish the fish.  I say remove the idiots and reopen some of the fish hatcheries.

[Ranger99]

The grid here is strained because we
have so many moving here that don't
have the first clue about conserving
resources.
A light on in every room, 45 minute
showers,  running the lawn sprinkler
system until there's a mini river running
down the curb, etc.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup the money for energy should be put into rebuilding our power grid. I worked all my life as a lineman and know how pittiful its condition is today. Windmills. Ask texans how that worked out for them. Solar? fine if you live in az and have the 30k or more it cost to change over. Wont work up here though. We have a good 4 months of winter that sometimes you dont see the sun for weeks. We have trees everywhere so wind isnt going to do it either. Hydros? Around here the hippys are pushing to tear them out because they changed the natural environment and might have killed some fishys! We need to get real. Build some new more modern more efficient coal powered plants and nukes. Nukes are where we really should be looking if you want clean energy but they make the liberals pee themselves. What most of this green energy bs comes from is politicians and people that dont have a clue. That wouldnt know green energy if it slapped them in the face.

 People that buy electric cars that think the electrical fairy in the ground produced that clean power thats charging them. People that dont understand that electric rates go up right along with oil. They want everyone in the country to be forced  to drive an electric car and dont realize that between electrical rates and the MUCH higher taxes you will pay to rebuild our grid and build these windmills will end up costing us twice to drive a mile then it did in a gas car. Look at it logically. How far have cars came in fuel economy and pollution in just the last 20 years. We drive pickups today that get much better fuel economy then cars did 20 years ago. Whos to say there still isnt much more they can do to make them even more efficient. One things for dammed sure.

 The government has no right to force us to drive electric cars. Especially when they dont themselves and jet all over the world and put 500 gallons of gas in there yacht for a weekend of play time. If you want to drive electrics its a free country. But you shouldnt get tax breaks and the companies shouldnt get tax money to develop them or to build charging stations for you. Pay for it your self. If you want to use wind or solar energy just about every utility i know of gives you an option to buy green power. Yup you pay more for it but should. It cost more today to produce.  If you want a yard full of solar panels and wind generators, its you yard do what you want Me? i prefer trees. Truth be told if the government was honest about the long term cost of this and told the hippys that if they want it THEY will have to crack open there wallets and pay the total REAL cost of it we wouldnt even be discussing this today. Gas cars would be even cheaper because the car companys would be forced into R&D for bs that will never be made.

[Lloyd Smale]

Wait till they cant charge there cell phones!! Youll see riots like youve never seen before. 3/4s of america both liberal and conseverative going though worse withdrawals then a heroin addict. When electricity is rationed id bet my house that they will use it to charge there phones and hop in there gas powered car to go to work.

The grid here is strained because we
have so many moving here that don't
have the first clue about conserving
resources.
A light on in every room, 45 minute
showers,  running the lawn sprinkler
system until there's a mini river running
down the curb, etc.

[Ranger99]

Just me- I don't think that the
environmentalists tree huggers
take into account how much
these other places besides the
US pollute as a daily practice.
I haven't been to mexico in a
long time, but back then everybody
just dropped whatever trash was in
their hand wherever they got through
with it, whether inside a nice building
or walking down the street, and I've
seen enough "news " reports to know
that much of the world is that way.
It doesn't do much good for us to
be dancing on the businesses here
with buckets of rules and sanctions
and punishing the citizenry with
shortages of energy when these other
places are busy dumping their trash
faster than we can deal with our own.
I also forgot to mention about how
shrimp and fishing boats from other
countries dump their garbage and
sewage into the gulf of mexico.
When we used to fish often way out
offshore out of sight of everything,
there'd be lots of times you'd start
seeing miscellaneous trash floating
and many times wads of nasty toilet
paper and 15-20 minutes later you'd
come up on a shrimp boat from another
country and you'd know where the
trash came from

[Mule 11]

If we don’t produce it someone else will with a lot less regulation equaling more pollution and making our enemies great again at the expense of our nation. On the upside the dirty poli tick cians will get their kickbacks...