Author Topic: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion  (Read 2086 times)

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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« on: July 09, 2022, 12:20:02 PM »
We can transition to all the mentioned alternatives and not use fossil fuel to make electricity.  However we will never be able to stop using fossil fuels.  Why?  You have to have high heat to make steel, titanium, and other hard metals.  Coal produces the highest heat here, as well as coal is needed to make carbon steel.  We also need lubricants for the windmills, wheels, and any type of gearing.  We need coal and oil to make plastics, carbon composites, and drugs. 

Vehicles.  We are just beginning to use them.  They will have to come down in price, the range has to go up, and the recharging times down.  Right now, the Tesla Model S can get 320 miles on a full charge, and it can use one of their 440 volt superchargers and recharge to 90% in 45 minutes.  Noone else can yet.  Again, a Tesla Model S now sells for around $120,000.  So the price has to come down.  Their model 3 has about a 240-60 mile range and sells for around $50,000.  Still kind of high.  A small car similar to a Toyota Corola.  Their Model S has an all aluminum frame and body to cut weight, but costs more than steel.  I feel like right now the transition vehicles should by hybrid, part battery, part engine, like the Toyota Prius, but in larger vehicles and trucks.  Batteries must also be made to recycle.  The US has enough lithium in California to make every car in America electric.  They won't let them strip mine it.  Minnesota also has a lot of lithium.  Tesla is now making their batteries lithium iron, as cobalt is more rare and is mined by child labor in Africa.  Scrap iron is far more plentiful.  The country and the world for that matter is going electric for vehicles.   

What the extreme left doesn't understand is we will never be able to do away with coal, natural gas, and oil as mentioned above.  Also, they don't understand it is not going to happen overnight.  There are 200 million cars and trucks in America.  They will last another 20-30 years before they are sent to the scrapyards.  They ain't going away anytime soon.  Also, any transition to new energy sources takes around 30 years to become mainstream.  We went from burning wood in steam engines, to burning coal, to burning diesel and gasoline.  This took over 100 years.  Diesel locomotives last at least 50 years before they are replaced. 

What the right doesn't understand is we should get away from importing oil and gas and using renewable energy for cleaner air if nothing else and burning it to make electricity.

I don't believe hydrogen is a solution due to higher leakage problems, and higher pressures needed to equal natural gas for burning alone.  If you liquify hydrogen it causes metal embrittlement that can cause cracks in the metal which in turn causes leaks.  Natural gas is already being liquified, stored, transported in liquid natural gas ships (LNG ships).  Using hydrogen to make natural gas to me is a better solution. 

First we are already going wind, solar is next.  Then maybe by then electric cars may be cheaper.  We have to fix the power infrastructure first, protect it, and gradually transition to wind, solar, and even nuclear.  Nuclear fusion has always been 10 years away since the 60's, so there is that. 
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2022, 07:12:11 AM »
Methane can also be trapped with a dome over the septic tank.  A family of 4 can produce enough methane for cooking.  Not much and not too cost effective.  Humans do not produce anywhere near the methane as a cow, pound for pound body weight.  Herbivores produce more methane than carnivores or omnivores.  Cities have determined there is not enough methane in sewer waste to make getting methane profitable. 

A family living out in the country with a few cows or chickens can feed a methane digester and get enough methane for cooking heating and water heating.  Would take a lot of shoveling to feed the digester.  No more work than cutting firewood probably. 
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2022, 08:36:01 AM »
Methane can also be trapped with a dome over the septic tank.  A family of 4 can produce enough methane for cooking.  Not much and not too cost effective.  Humans do not produce anywhere near the methane as a cow, pound for pound body weight.  Herbivores produce more methane than carnivores or omnivores.  Cities have determined there is not enough methane in sewer waste to make getting methane profitable. 

A family living out in the country with a few cows or chickens can feed a methane digester and get enough methane for cooking heating and water heating.  Would take a lot of shoveling to feed the digester.  No more work than cutting firewood probably.
   Just going off my memory , but seems  there was/is a landfill dump that was capped off  to recover the trapped  methane .

Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2022, 10:04:33 PM »
every piece of plastic and vinyl in a tesla has oil in it. The glass takes oil to fire the furnaces and the same with about every metal or rubber part. Heck about every part of it. Cant sit sand out in the sun and make glass. Then about every road in this country is made from asphalt. Whats the key ingredient in that. suprised biden doesnt want to convert the roads back to gravel. But even then it would have to be spread by solar powered dozers. Unless you are in the deep woods buck naked you can look around and see something that needed oil to make.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2022, 04:03:53 AM »
A few months ago, even Elon Musk told the Biden administration that we needed oil and needed to build the pipeline.  He realizes we need oil for other things beside burning it for fuel.  He also realized the middle class and lower class suffer the most with high gasoline prices. 
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2022, 12:40:22 PM »
Petroleum is essential for industry
and the overall infrastructure of
the country
Those sitting in front of the plasma
big screen in their climate controlled
mini mansion are naive to think
differently
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline magooch

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2022, 05:22:01 AM »
We have the best of all worlds--a moron for a leader who mandates that we go all electric with no means to get there.  What kind of system is it that allows the very least qualified idiot on two feet to make these kinds of decisions?  I guess there is a price to pay for whatever it was that got us into this predicament.  I guess we need constant reminders of how quickly and easily it is to toss it all down the manure chute if we don't pay attention.
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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2022, 10:43:06 PM »
Ive said it before. The real blame is in the laps of the voters that put him there. In the voters that have drank the kool aid over this green energy lie thats being spread. Lots of people talk the talk but how many walk the walk. How many buy electric cars, shut off there ac and furnace? Quit cooking food because it pollutes no matter how you do it.  Shut off there tv. Quit charging there cell phones. Pretty close to zero. Herers a story off fox this morning on one persons experience https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/florida-family-electric-car-problem-replacement-battery-costs-more-vehicle  Truth is everyone wants there neighbor to do the dirty work. To make the sacrifices. Comical thing is what ive found is universally about all liberals hate cracking there walet open. Thats where they draw the line. They will be electric cars as long as MY tax money is foot the bill to make them priced competitively. But when it comes to actually paying the full price for the car when its 50 percent more those cars will be stuck in the back forty of the dealership and eventually go to auction. All the posts you made on transistioning to green energy can be summed up in one sentence. There is no techology thats available today that produce the power we need and fuel our cars at a rate we can afford other then coal and gas. 
We have the best of all worlds--a moron for a leader who mandates that we go all electric with no means to get there.  What kind of system is it that allows the very least qualified idiot on two feet to make these kinds of decisions?  I guess there is a price to pay for whatever it was that got us into this predicament.  I guess we need constant reminders of how quickly and easily it is to toss it all down the manure chute if we don't pay attention.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2022, 04:43:54 AM »
In order to transition to cleaner energy or such, there has to be a PLAN in place for the transition.  Right now there is no plan.  Also, with 200 million cars and trucks, not counting planes and trains, that aren't going away, we have to have oil drilling continue as well as natural gas. 

Wind is fine but only in windy areas.  Solar is fine, especially in the southwest or deep south.  Neither is the end all be all for power.  Nuclear must be in the mix if you want a lot of consistant power. 

Hydrogen doesn't have an infrastructure.  You can use natural gas fuel cells to avoid carbon dioxide, but a natural gas fuel cell is about 40% efficient.  By product is water and carbon dust vs water only with hydrogen.  Both use less material than a battery powered vehicle and are lighter in weight.
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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2022, 04:52:31 AM »
there is no plan because its not practical at todays level of technology and no matter how you dress that pig its still pork. Heres a typical plan today. Transition all of us to electric cars by next January and then launch the star ship enterprise capable of faster then light travel come February. Its easy to talk. But that pigs still pork.
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Offline TrumpWon

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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2022, 09:07:39 AM »
if it worked it would have been implemented. As it is now its just a bunch of college liberal hippys that grew up in the 60s and drove vw vans with flowers on the side but now now wearing suits instead of pasley and bell bottoms and still hallucinating
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Offline TrumpWon

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2022, 09:29:51 AM »
The same way that horses and mules disappeared as soon as the car and tractor were invented?

Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2022, 10:38:51 PM »
you and dixie sure have sampled a bit to much of the global warming leftists green energy kool-aid. Your batch might even have been made up by timothy leary because you two are sure on a trip. There is no plan. There wont be a plan. All there will be is liberal dreaming and socialists that want to control every aspect of our lives. Telling us what we can eat, drink, heat our house with, buy at a car dealership have access to on the internet own to protect ourselves. Even the words in the constitution. You to sure do talk the talk. Do you walk the walk? Do you have an electric car? Have you shut your heat off for the winter? Ac for the summer. Obviously your still using dirty energy to charge your phone or lap top! Why do you come to a conservative web site and push the trash that is the cornerstone of thet socialist democratic parties agenda?? Sickening that some welcome these government controls over us with open arms. It is the job of the president congress and the house to run this country. Its not there job to control the environment. If it is i sure missed that in the constitution and sure never saw anything in there that says the government can control what kind of horse i buy or how i heat my house. You are getting fed a line of bs by people that create more pollution in there lives then any 500 middle class americans. When do they start leading by example? Answer? never!! Because like a couple of you all they do is talk the talk. They dont care about anything but getting you to drink that koolaid so you pull the right handle come election day so they can continue to jet around the world, Drive 150k cars, have private sercurity teams while they take away your guns. Live in and heat and cool houses so big theres 5 rooms for everyone in the family.  Wake the F up.   
Stanford has been working on a plan since 2015

https://seca.stanford.edu/news/plan-convert-us-clean-renewable-energy-2050

https://thesolutionsproject.org/
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 01:46:20 AM »
Watched a few minutes of
television this AM before I
saddle up and go.
There was an old documentary
type show from around 2000
where all these experts are
saying that the oil supply will be
depleted by around 2023
Of course, they're saying that
there'll be no oil left to use, not
that government leadership will
mismanage our oil industry.
As far as I know the last time I
checked, there's still centuries of
oil left in the ground yet to be
pumped
(FWIW,  they were also saying that
the polar ice would be well on it's
way to being melted away by now)
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .


Offline TrumpWon

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2022, 02:46:02 AM »
For an issue this big we need the government to be involved. The Department of the Interior is on it!

https://www.doi.gov/priorities/clean-energy-future

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2022, 04:31:26 AM »
Eventually in probably less than 50 years, cheap oil will run out.  We are already drilling deeper and fracking as much as we can.  We have to have some type of alternative fuel and power sources.  Nuclear with a mix of solar and wind is what most countries are now doing.  Also, a company has figured out how to burn up spent nuclear fuel rods with lasers.  As I mentioned in my writings our electric grid needs reinforcing bad.  It should be protected against EMP's and hacking.  And if some of you read all of what I wrote, if we go all out with wind and solar, the grid has to be built to move the power around.  Right now there is only so much it can do. 

As far as transportation, it will be either electric or some type of fuel cell. 

I also mentioned Exxon spent $500 million working on algae derived oil.  They can grow enough algae in greenhouses to power every car in America with synthetic algae gasoline.  Right now that cost is around $5 just to make it.  Not yet cost effective, but it can be done.  Same with natural gas, synthetic gas can be made from carbon dioxide and water.  Again, not yet cost effective.

As I said, there has to be some type of plan in place to transition.  This includes drilling and fracking for oil and gas now, not cutting it out. 
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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2022, 11:37:55 PM »
cant wait for midterms and especially 2024 when all this hippy talk get put to bed and we get back to actually producing more oil. When subsidies for electric cars and R&R for them gets cut off at the knees and they fade into history like the old turbine car and cars that become boats and airplanes. Get back to what America wants. Thats v8 powered pickups and use that R&R money to make them more effecient. Not replace them with a singer sewing machine motor that even if it got advanced enough and battery technology got so much better that there practical would still take years of upgrades on our power grid to allow everyone in the country to own one let alone the two most familys have. They what they fail to tell you is even when battery technology improves drasticaly its still only capacity that improves. Batteries dont make electricity. They store it and even the perfect battery if its ever designed will only store a 100 percent of whats put into it. Its not like your going to put 3 amp hours of charge into it and get 4 amp hours out of it. You still have to charge it and add those amp hours. More amp hours its holds the longer it will go with a full charge but also it will take that much longer to top it off when you run out. Unless you want to handle a charging cable as big as the fuel line for an air craft carrier the conductor size will limit charging speeds as will the fact that a charging station that has a number of stations would have to have a transformer as big as a house to power them. Im sure though someone on some obsure web site will claim they have a lazer that you just point at the car and its charged. Beem me up scotty!!  ::) Come on 2024. Im sick and tired of seeing my tax money spent on crap that isnt practical just to appease the far left and the just plain idiots that drink the liberal kool-aid and try to pretend on here there conservatives. You idiots owe me GAS MONEY!
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Offline TrumpWon

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 02:40:18 AM »
One in four Americans say their next car will be electric. If we don’t squash those eco tripping hippies now we’ll be overrun with tie dyed and paisley Teslas in ten years.

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 04:07:50 AM »
Like I have mentioned.  The Tesla Model S is probably the best electric car in production.  However It costs over $100,000.  It can get 320 miles of range at 70 mph.  It can recharge at Tesla's superchargers in 45 minutes.  It can recharge at home 8 hours with 110 volts or 3 hours with 220 off a dryer plug.  Tesla is recommending their owners not charge in Texas between 2pm and 7pm when electricity is at highest demand.  For a commuter car, this can be done at night with no problems.  People driving through Texas would have to use the superchargers during the off hours. 

Other electrics are as good or better than Tesla Model S, but they cost $180,000 and up. 

The Tesla Model 3 is their cheap version, but it costs around $45,000.  Has less range, but can be upgraded, but it would be over $50,000 then. 

The prices are not there yet.  Tesla does warrenty on batteries for 8 years or 100,000 miles. 

The article someone mentioned was not a Tesla, but another car.  The reason Tesla's are so high is they knew the average person couldn't afford one right now, so they sell to the upper class and thus make the Tesla's with all the bells and whistles.  The same thing happened with automobiles over 100 years ago, only the rich could afford them, until Henry Ford made them cheaper, financed them, and it helped with the Roaring 20's when people were making money also. 

Cheaper batteries have to be developed, until then they are not going to be mainstream any time soon.  Three things have to happen. 

1. The grid has to be improved with more nuclear power. 
2. The electric cars have to become cheaper.
3. Gasoline and diesel has to stay higher for a long period of time without government suppression forcing prices up, and with more drilling and fracking to try to keep it down.  200 million vehicles aren't going away for at least 20 years, and new gasoline vehicles are still being made. 

In the meantime, solar and wind will be somewhat helpful, but not the complete solution for the grid.  Only nuclear is the best overall solution.  No pollution, but the spend fuel rods still have to be dealt with.  Laser destruction and breader reactors are the best solution for nukes to get rid of nuclear waste. 

Lloyd, I am not a complete advocate of solar and wind, nor electric cars.  If you read everything I wrote, I showed the pros and cons.  The answer is in the middle, not far left or far right.  A plan has to be in place to transition off oil and gas as well as coal.  There is no plan, that is why we have the high gas prices, and no plan to upgrade the electric grid.  No plan to develop cheaper batteries with faster charging.  No plan to transmit all the wind and solar that could be produced into the grid.   
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Offline Mule 11

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2022, 06:11:31 AM »
Wow, and I thought the high prices were because leftists are throwing a monkey wrench into anything good and productive for America and relying on our enemies... Sure didn’t help with running the printing presses on our dollar thus devaluing it...
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2022, 08:14:30 AM »
Wow, and I thought the high prices were because leftists are throwing a monkey wrench into anything good and productive for America and relying on our enemies... Sure didn’t help with running the printing presses on our dollar thus devaluing it...

That is only part of the problem.  Yes they stopped the pipeline construction.  Yes they have stopped drilling on government land.  However, the Russia-Ukraine war also shows how this affects world prices.  Even if we produced all of our oil, the price would still go up based on world production.  Our companies would sell overseas if the price was higher.  We also might have to supply our allies.  Lots of issues.  We shouldn't be that dependent.

Now if we produced all our power with nuclear supplemented with some wind and solar, we could sell our natural gas to Germany or other European countries that were dependent on Russia.  We would be making money right now. 

Changing cars over is a whole nother thing.  Right now electrics are too high and the charging times take too long.  Hybrids are better at least for the next 30 years.  They are cheaper and you can use the electric part around town, and the gasoline on the highway, win-win.  It would keep the air in towns and cities cleaner. 
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Offline phalanx

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2022, 02:30:37 PM »
Putting a big swamp cooler on my house roof. That’s all i had as a kid and it worked.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
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Offline Mule 11

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2022, 02:47:26 PM »
Wow, and I thought the high prices were because leftists are throwing a monkey wrench into anything good and productive for America and relying on our enemies... Sure didn’t help with running the printing presses on our dollar thus devaluing it...

That is only part of the problem.  Yes they stopped the pipeline construction.  Yes they have stopped drilling on government land.  However, the Russia-Ukraine war also shows how this affects world prices.  Even if we produced all of our oil, the price would still go up based on world production.  Our companies would sell overseas if the price was higher.  We also might have to supply our allies.  Lots of issues.  We shouldn't be that dependent.

Now if we produced all our power with nuclear supplemented with some wind and solar, we could sell our natural gas to Germany or other European countries that were dependent on Russia.  We would be making money right now. 

Changing cars over is a whole nother thing.  Right now electrics are too high and the charging times take too long.  Hybrids are better at least for the next 30 years.  They are cheaper and you can use the electric part around town, and the gasoline on the highway, win-win.  It would keep the air in towns and cities cleaner.

I call b s on this. The proof is in the pudding. We were doing fine until our elections were rigged and the greenie leftists gained control...

Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2022, 11:55:38 PM »
where did you see that? MSN!!
One in four Americans say their next car will be electric. If we don’t squash those eco tripping hippies now we’ll be overrun with tie dyed and paisley Teslas in ten years.
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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 12:45:36 AM »
but it isnt an issue in the middle. Its a far left issue. THe far left that thinks they should have the power to TELL US what we MUST drive even though they know its not substainable. Total insanity not a middle of the road issue.

now lets address this total bs. Im an old retired lineman. I have knowlege of this thing called Ohms LAW. Its never been  beat by any scientist or car manufacture or  battery maker. Tell me the capacity of those batterys and ill tell you just how long it would take using a 20 or 30 amp dryer cord. A battery only stores what you put into it. You cant put 20 amps in and get 22 amps out. Its more like put in 20 and get back 18. So just give me the amp hours or wattage of that battery pack and ill tell you exactly how many amps it will take to charge it in 8 hours. There lies the big problem with these electrics. There are no regulations. They can claim any  range ability and dont have to  back it up. They can make up charge times and dont have to back them up. Any gas or diesel car in this country has to PROVE  there fuel economy rating. They have to be tested for pollution where an electric cars pollution is already in the air when its charged up and hasnt even rolled a foot yet. For electric cars to work two things have to happen. First our entire electrical grid from the power plants to your meter have to be rebuilt. Like i said i was a lineman and know this for FACT. Then who will pay for that?? Are the power companys going to throw away there profits for 10 years to do it?? NOPE. Either the rate payers will pay for it in there bill or if we still have the libs in DC maybe tax money will be given to them to do it. Either way WE pay.

Then when thats all done we need cheap power and a LOT OF IT. Today we have barely enough to get by with the load without these cars and more and more coal plants being shut down every day. We have two logical ways to do it. Fossil fuel and nukes. Thats it. If you want to argue solar or wind or some other star trek technology that someone on the internet claimed will work the waste your time. The same hippys that are afraid of global warming are terrified of nuclear power. So what does that leave. Well maybe natural gas but the plain and simple fact is coal is the cheapest way to make power and lots of it.

So dixie you show your left tendencies by ignoring all these FACTS. What you have are the conservatives that KNOW we need fossil fuels and lots of it. That know that electric cars arent viable today.. Maybe in 20 years but not today. Then you have the left. Actually making laws to stop fossil fuel production and to eventually ban fossil fuel cars but have absolutely no way IN THE REAL WORLD to make it happen. That will implement these insane policys stopping our production and turn around and still by oil from terrorists that makes them stronger and us weaker. Logic would tell anyone with an iq of over 50 that if you want to go green you create the technology and then slowly implement it and slowly phase out fossil fuel in a way that doenst weaken us. But this is the administation that pulled us out of Afghanistan before we got our people out and our military hardware. So there logic is to MAKE us buy electric cars that we dont have the power to charge???  To make us drive electric cars while they ride around in limos and jet around the world in private jets using more fuel an causing more pollution in one trip then i do in my life. Then they come home to there wife and live in a 10 bedroom mansion that they have to heat and cool for only two people (unless you count the servants). RIGHT THERE is your  MIDDLE GROUND. For the most part middle ground right now is mostly liberals who know they made a mistake and still dont want to totaly admit it. It along with the left is getting smaller every day. You sure are correct though in that there IS NO PLAN. If they had to justify this insanity theyd be laughed out of dc. When you even try to justify these LIES your part of the problem not the solution So i say show me the money. Show me a plan thats more then a fairy tale spouted by someone that either wants his 5 minutes of fame or is still having acid flashbacks from the 60s. Show me the battery capacity of that tesla and i will show you that your just buying into the lies the left wants you to believe. .  Then while your at it show me where the power fairy lives in the ground that is making green energy to charge them.

I sometimes say the electric cars will die with midterms but the real slowdown might even come faster. Between now and fall your power company goes to the Federal energy commissions for there yearly rate increase. Just like you theyve been paying 50 percent more for fuel. Projected rate increases for this year will be near 25 percent. What sucks about that is it just isnt going to cost you 25 percent more to charge your car but 25 percent more everytime you turn a light on. That big increase is just to break even compared to a year or two ago. It does nothing to pay to upgrade the system for electric cars. I can also see that putting the kabosh to free charging stations. Tesla is kind of struggling as is. Can they absorb an increase of 25 percent on the cost of giving that free power away?? I kind of doubt it. Now show me where im wrong. Not with someone elses dreams but with facts.
 
Like I have mentioned.  The Tesla Model S is probably the best electric car in production.  However It costs over $100,000.  It can get 320 miles of range at 70 mph.  It can recharge at Tesla's superchargers in 45 minutes.  It can recharge at home 8 hours with 110 volts or 3 hours with 220 off a dryer plug.  Tesla is recommending their owners not charge in Texas between 2pm and 7pm when electricity is at highest demand.  For a commuter car, this can be done at night with no problems.  People driving through Texas would have to use the superchargers during the off hours. 

Other electrics are as good or better than Tesla Model S, but they cost $180,000 and up. 

The Tesla Model 3 is their cheap version, but it costs around $45,000.  Has less range, but can be upgraded, but it would be over $50,000 then. 

The prices are not there yet.  Tesla does warrenty on batteries for 8 years or 100,000 miles. 

The article someone mentioned was not a Tesla, but another car.  The reason Tesla's are so high is they knew the average person couldn't afford one right now, so they sell to the upper class and thus make the Tesla's with all the bells and whistles.  The same thing happened with automobiles over 100 years ago, only the rich could afford them, until Henry Ford made them cheaper, financed them, and it helped with the Roaring 20's when people were making money also. 

Cheaper batteries have to be developed, until then they are not going to be mainstream any time soon.  Three things have to happen. 

1. The grid has to be improved with more nuclear power. 
2. The electric cars have to become cheaper.
3. Gasoline and diesel has to stay higher for a long period of time without government suppression forcing prices up, and with more drilling and fracking to try to keep it down.  200 million vehicles aren't going away for at least 20 years, and new gasoline vehicles are still being made. 

In the meantime, solar and wind will be somewhat helpful, but not the complete solution for the grid.  Only nuclear is the best overall solution.  No pollution, but the spend fuel rods still have to be dealt with.  Laser destruction and breader reactors are the best solution for nukes to get rid of nuclear waste. 

Lloyd, I am not a complete advocate of solar and wind, nor electric cars.  If you read everything I wrote, I showed the pros and cons.  The answer is in the middle, not far left or far right.  A plan has to be in place to transition off oil and gas as well as coal.  There is no plan, that is why we have the high gas prices, and no plan to upgrade the electric grid.  No plan to develop cheaper batteries with faster charging.  No plan to transmit all the wind and solar that could be produced into the grid.
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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 12:46:34 AM »
that is probably the most liberal socialist statement ive ever seen on here.
For an issue this big we need the government to be involved. The Department of the Interior is on it!

https://www.doi.gov/priorities/clean-energy-future
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2022, 04:15:05 AM »
If the price of oil and natural gas stay high, government interference or not, the country will go with whatever is the most cost effective.  More windmills and solar panels were installed when Trump was in office than are being installed now.  Wind is cheaper than natural gas for electric production, this was even 4 years ago.  Again, I say, you can't get all the wind from the plains to the east coast.  But for plains states it cuts costs since no fuel is involved.  Solar is the same.  Solar is becoming more popular in hot sunny states. 

Nuclear is higher than wind or solar in cost per kw hour, but it is consistent. 

We also will have to have coal and oil for plastics, medicines, and such.  We don't want to run out of it, so alternatives will be needed at some point.  I don't buy the man made global warming idea, but we are eventually going to run out of fossil fuels, especially oil.  And since our oil prices are based on world costs, it is too much of a roller coaster, highs and lows. 

You have to look at world costs, and world production.  OPEC doesn't want to increase production because they will run out of oil quicker.  In the meantime the Arab countries are going solar and nuclear power and getting away from burning their own fuel.  That sends a message of their fear of running out of oil to sell.  Even in America, we are having to drill deeper in the Gulf and even deeper on land.  It is going to get more expensive even without government interference. 

Just before 2008, the economy was smoking hot worldwide.  Oil prices were getting higher to meet demand.  They got so high that it caused the crash.  Bush was not interfering with drilling.  It happened on it's own.  It will happen again if the economy booms again.  Also every 4 or 8 years it repeats itself in America.  Dem's try to stop drilling fracking and oil pipelines.  Republicans allow them to drill, frack, and build pipelines.  Up and down we go.  Having a better electric grid with some solar and wind thrown in where it is PRACTICAL, and building some nuke plants would wean us off fuel oil and natural gas to produce power. 

If we had a better electric grid with excess power being produced, we could put overhead electric lines for trains.  They are already diesel electric.  This would get the trains off diesel which could then be made into gasoline or used for farm diesel.  Trains do not need batteries. 

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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: Transitioning to alternative energy Conclusion
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2022, 12:02:19 AM »
where do you come up with this stuff? I looked on newsmax fox and even msn and not a single word about it. Youd think if something groundbreaking was being announced theyd be fighting for coverage of it. I saw tumble weeds on mars and nascar going to an electric car series but silence on something as revolutionary as getting cold fusion to work. beam me up scotty.  ::) I think the libs at berkleys idea of cold fusion is ice in there bong!
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