What kind of accuracy do you expect out of a military gun??

[1911crazy]

While I admit these aren't bull barreled sniper/target rifles built for pinpoint accuracy out to 2500yds.  These guns were made to shoot person sized targets during a war.  What king of accuracy do you expect??  On the average how tight should a military rifle group with military ammo??  I have read of the Finnish army guys making 600yd shots with the Finnish Mosin M39's with iron sites.  When the Finn's captured the russian mosins they did everything possible to improve the accuracy of the russian rifle.  With better quality barrels and sites. And even the swede mausers are just as accurate too if not better.  So why do some rifles fall short our expectations and in accuracy??  I find it kind of funny I can take a 100 year old swede M96 and put a 1 1/2" group at 100yds  with bought ammo and a brand new american made copy of a military rifle out of the box can't even come close?                              BigBill

[PaulS]

BigBill,
Any rifle in my cabinet that won't shoot sub MOA groups is gone!
I have two 03A3's that routinely shoot 5/8 inch groups at 100 yards - those are the two that are military. I would expect that any BOLT action military arm could duplicate these groups. There are a few semi-autos that I have handled that do as well too - H&K 93? in 308 caliber that a friend owned could shoot sub-MOA groups - but it did nasty things to the brass.

PaulS

[ajj]

The Swedes just got a lot of careful, individual attention. Most were built in peacetime and the little inspection stamp (crown) on almost every part is just one indication of the pride with which they were built. I read recently that the barrels were hand lapped! It might even be true. Even with all that, when you look at the barrel bands and all that wood you've got to wonder how they can shoot so well.

[Mikey]

Hay BigBill - I'll have to go with PaulS on this one and throw in a few comments on my own.  ajj has a good point with the Swedes in that they were not wartime production.  But, he asked how they shoot so well with all the hardware - some of those literally have free-floated barrels that result from the open barrel channels under the upper and lower stocks.  I saw that with mine and also with a Polish M44 in 7.62x54R.  Interesting what mil-spec will get you sometimes.

I think that the notion of 'production needs' is the key.  When wartime production goes into effect, shortcuts are made and often that affects the overall quality of the rifle and its accuracy.  A lot of the SKSs coming into the country today are not wartime production and shoot pretty well - same for the AK variants.  

Lots of the mausers, the Yugos and the CZs/VZs have been rebarrelled at the arsenel and for all intents and purposes they are new rifles that should shoot very well.  However, I understand (but will stand corrected) that both the K98 Mauser snipers and the Mosin Nagant snipers were just very accurate rifles that they scoped for sniper work.  

Some of the early SKSs brought into the country were battlefield relics that had pitted chambers and rusted bores and might group 6" at 100 yds with foreign mil-spec ammo (which is nowhere near our mil-spec stuff).  Others however looked like they were never even issued and with good ammo should group within 4" or possibly even 2".  But, this is just my 2 cents.  Hope all is well with ya.  Mikey.

[S.S.]

Although mine was bought new and not surplus,
My HK-91 in 308 is almost as accurate as any bolt action I have ever shot.
The Brass normally is not damaged, it just has black lines on it
from the chamber flutes. This actually is supposed to help extraction
of the spent case.
The most accurate bolt rifle I have ever fired, is a model 1891
Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53 cal.  I own this rifle now but do not shoot it very often due to its "mint" condition.
I am a collector, and I normally go by what it is and not how accurate
it is anyway.  Besides, One of the most in-Accurate rifles I have fired
is actually called the best all-time bolt action battle rifles, The SMLE.
(But I still  have 5 of them!)

[RB Rooson]

The Swiss Schmitt-Rubin straight pull in 7.5 x 55 is the most accurate rifle that I own AND IT WAS MADE IN 1942!!!!!!

Excellent rifling and a smooth trigger pull make it like shooting a "swiss watch with the kick of a .30-30" - (this one will go to my son for sure....ahh, when I'm done with it....)!

Iron sights at 137 yards for a 2" group from a bench rest with GP-11 match grade ammo.