Author Topic: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs  (Read 880 times)

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Offline Bob Riebe

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Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« on: September 01, 2022, 01:46:14 PM »
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/bringing-a-classic-ls6-454-back-to-factory-specs/



The first models of the 454 are rare, and the LS6 454 is even rarer. Still, the unicorn of these engines is the Winters “Snowflake” aluminum heads and corresponding serial numbers. Only sold on 188 Corvettes in 1971, these heads reigned supreme in making horsepower with their rectangular intake ports, round exhaust ports, and open-chamber design....

Not bad as the compression ratio was almost a full point below factory ratio; I wish they had done a real dy no test .

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2022, 02:19:28 PM »
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/bringing-a-classic-ls6-454-back-to-factory-specs/
 . . I wish they had done a real dyno test .

Nobody does that anymore for
whatever reason. They just get
online to one of the websites that
say whatever HP this and that
combination should have, or
just declare that my so-and-so
has 500 hosses at the wheels.
I just turn around and walk in a
different direction when I hear
that drivel

18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2022, 10:18:36 PM »
the ls6 was a monster in its day. I owned a 70 ss454 ls6 chevelle. It was if not the quickes surely in the top 3 every friday night around here. That said its a boat anchor compared to todays engines. cam and head technology has come light years since then and i just dont see the wanting to build one to factory specs. If it ran well and never had the heads off id leave it alone for collectability but if i was going rebuild it it would have at least an different cam better valves and seats and some head work. Add to that they were solid lifter and every 3k I had to change plugs and points and pull the valve covers off and adjust lash.  Heck most of us back in the day didnt leave them stock. today its realitively easy to get another 100 hp out of one. What you need to keep in mind is that an ls6 or mopar hemi back then only put around 325-350hp to the wheels. Theres pickups today that come close to that and an ss camaro, base vette or a 392 challenger like mine will add a 100 hp to that number. I can see keeping the carb stock or even the intake manifold for original looks but inside the motor has alot of room for improvement and nobody can see it anyway. Keep in mind too that most ls6s were tired after 60k. A blueprinted engine with top shelf parts could double that. Even back then there was better motors. Take a 455 buick gs or a 455 olds 442. They would run with or beat an ls6 (especially the buicks) and didnt need all the fooling around and were much more reliable and had much better longevity. Its like all the hoopla about the old hemi Plymouths and dodges. Many dont know that the 440 six packs were quicker, lighter, more reliable and took alot less tuning and had hydraulic lifters so didnt need valve adjustments all the time. There was a couple hemis around town back then. They showed up to race when they first got transfered to the base but disappeared after they got embarrassed by locals with small block chevs. The head flowed like nothing else and with two 4 barrels they had to capablitly to flow alot of air but there was a catch 22 with those hemis. Stock they werent much and modded they still had a 100lbs more weight over the front tires then gm big blocks and with tires of the day they stuggled to hook up and spinin aint winin. Cars if feared the most back then other then the buick gs's were small cars with small blocks like the chev II and novas. Those little 375 hp 327 novas and vettes would crap and git.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2022, 01:54:50 AM »
If it doesn't come with a factory warranty, I ain't interested.  :)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2022, 06:05:56 AM »
actually they made some zl1 aluminum 427 vettes back in the day. They didnt come with a warrantee new. Ford made a few like that too. Now you can buy a 800hp challenger that comes with a 3 year warantee. By the time i had my 454 it was 3 years old and the warantee was long gone. Really not to many street guys i knew back then would have even brought one in for warantee work unless it was a seat problem or the heater didnt work. We wouldnt let some grease monkey mechanic touch our motors. Today most dont have a clue how to work on the new cars.
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2022, 08:37:44 AM »
The point of the article was NOT to see how may HP they could get from it (it came with 13:1 pistons and they said it obiously had used in competition) it was that there was so much of the original engine there which make it a very rare beast.
It is not about comparing to what Detroit is putting out now with factory electronic fuel systems totatly controlled by a computer.

The article says they returned it to as close as possible, to factory standards, (actually making it totaly as it was is impossible today unless the engine has never been opened up)

Had they wanted HP they could have his it in 800 HP range with little effort and still be streetable but that is not the point of the article.
There were only 188 of these engnines produce in 1971, so this is a very rare item, and the fact they got over 450 hp on dyno break-in run with low comp ratio say a lot about how good of an engine Chevrolet produced back in the last days where different makes all wanted to the the latest greatest.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2022, 10:16:03 PM »
yup 450 hp is great for a 454 on a dyno. Most on an engine dyno did around 400 and on a wheel dyno around 325. It is cool being a rare aluminum head motor. But that said even at 11 to one like a stock motor it aint running long on 93. Even with aluminum heads. That thing was tuned to the ragged edge. Today we can do it because we have computer controled timing and detonation sensors that will back it off. What they showed was the aboslute best that motor is capable of not what it would be doing in a street driven car. 9 to one is about it for steel headed motors and 10 to one is it for an aluminum headed motor without timing control or pulling so much timing out that it becomes a dog. Back in the day we ran either 260 blue or octane boost in the ls6s, even premium pump gas was marginal at best in them. They would run on leaded premium but you needed to jet rich and couldnt run any timing advance over factory specs and youd best not spin them up to 6k. I know you realize this bob but its all about static compression. Im not talking the kind you measure cranking your motor off with a compression gauge. What effects static compression, Actualy compression of you motor, timing and forcing more air in. 4 lbs of boost in a 10 to one motor makes it basicaly a 11.5 to one motor and timing has to be retarted or better gas has to be used.

Keep in mind too that motor was blueprinted and the cam wasnt stock and it didnt even have an air cleaner. Might have been close to stock  but wasnt a stock cam. It was also degreed and the factory didnt do that. It was also tuned and the carb was adjusted with fuel air sensors that we didnt have back then. Actually if i was told what they did before the dyno i would have expected a few more hp then they got. then look close and it looks like they ran headers and theres no exhaust system on an engine dyno. So basicaly it was running headers with straight pipes. That alone was probably worth at least 20 hp.

Add all that up and its not that impressive. Especially considering my 392 challenger which is a middle of the road muscle car today put down 430 TO THE WHEELS with just a cat back and a tune. With headers and a cold air added it did 451 tuned for 91. Put that motor on an engine dyno and your probably talking 525 with a full exhaust. Like I said i loved my ls6 chevelle. It was one of the best back then. Won me a hell of alot more races then it lost. But my challenger would clean its clock and get 25mpg with the air on on the way home. Couldnt even get air on an ls6 back then. I love me some old school muscle just like you but the 70s no longer are the golden age of muscle cars. that my friend is TODAY. My car will run low 12s and my wife can drive it to work or head to the other side of the country in comfort tommarow. Throw that heavy motor in a vette and you too will run high 12s, get 10mpg and it might if your real lucky last 75000 miles. Head across country? Youd best bring a tool box. One road in the back of my chevelle every day along with a case of octane boost and a blanket so if i broke down or blew it up far from town i could sleep in the car.

 One thing we sure found out back in the day is if you spin a big block up to 6k very often your eventually going to leave parts on the ground or at least need an engine crane and a stand to rebuild it on. All that said id love to go back in time with that dyno tuned blueprinted motor with a "close to stock modern cam" and aluminum square port heads that allow you to run another point of compression because they dissipate heat so much better. Like was said they were rarer then diamonds back then. Ive never seen one with aluminum heads on the street or even in person. Matter of fact back then I never even saw a pair of aluminum heads other then at a drag track. Also you didnt see many running open headers on the street. WIth that combo I could probably take care of the few that beat me. Better yet if i had a time machine to do it id much rather take my 392 back and oh my God what i could have done with a hellcat, zl1 camaro or gt500 mustang.  Could have lined anyone of those up at a pro stock race with just drag radials and pump gas and been competitive and drove home with the air on. So in the big picture 450 crank hp doesnt impress me much. You can buy a pickup truck  with simular power levels today. Those yearning for the good old days of 70s muscle cars have short or selective memorys.
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2022, 05:28:55 PM »
Im not talking the kind you measure cranking your motor off with a compression gauge. What effects static compression, Actualy compression of you motor, timing and forcing more air in. 4 lbs of boost in a 10 to one motor makes it basicaly a 11.5 to one motor and timing has to be retarted or better gas has to be used.

If you are talking about dynamic compression ratio, the ratio whose number can  result due gasses entering or leaving (also  by reversing through intake valve) during the compressin phase , it is always lower , by a large amount ,  than the static compression ratio which is determined simply  by volume in cylincer during compression stroke, affected again  by cylinder head chamber and piston shape.
Conservative timing always has a higher dynamic ratio than radical timing.
Cylinder pressure determines dynamic ration; there is an algebraic formuls to determing dynamic ratio.
Timing determines, or stops , gasses being pushed back out of the intake valve, which is why port tuning and scavenging are so important to keep gas volume in the cylinder and not lost.

It is , far more mathemtical/physics involved than this, when actually cylinder head shape and engine timing is concerned but it is still just matter of physics and chemistry which is why fuel, down to actuall heat value of the brand of racing gasoline used can make a huge difference.
In the Engine Master series, engine builders (they were the best of the best) had engines running on 91 octane street fuel with 13:1 compression ratios on carburettors, their knowledge of  valve gear material, cylinder head design, dynamic ratios and timing, made it possible to do so without ruining  the engine.
True Ford and Chevrolet high performance big block street engines, starting in the mid-sixties were safe to 6,500 rpm and could be over-revved to 7,000 (over revved not held there) without problems, but it was not til lthe 80's that valve gear material became common and they went from steady state 8,000-8,500 in comp. engines to over 10,000 by the turnof the century.
But by that time they were running up to 17:1 static comp. rations in some Trans-Am road racing engines, till the fact that only the teams with money not being a problem could afford this tech. so they were dropped by 4 to 5 points by racing rules.

Going back fifty years in many areas high octane street fuel was not found , easily, and yes if you were going to race, even stop light to stop light, not blue printing ( which cost money but less than a ruined engine ) and was simply making sure your engine waas operating within fatory design specs, not buy special parts, was a problem waiting to happen.
It cost a lot of dudes more money to fix what they broke, than having a competent engine builder take it apart and make sure all was set to best specs.
(Although, and I knew some dudes quite well, they would take the car/engine to the "highly reccomended" engine builder, and he would say , what you really should do is change this , that or the other thing, and regret it greatly later.)

When I had my Boss Mustang, even with a compartively low 10:6 compressin ration , when they stopped selling  premium leaded gasoline up here in the late seventies, I started using (buying) various fuels for the engines sake.  I used octane booster, power booster (which is exactly what it said it is (it did not contain alcohol) and was illegal in many sactioned racing classes, to finally settling on aviation gasoline mixed with regular alcohol free gasoline.


Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2022, 10:22:45 PM »
we were fortunate back then. Our little town had an air force base which helped in two aspects. One there was alot of muscle cars around. More then typical because of the base. So we had a sunoco station that sold good gas. Second was we had pretty easy access to av gas. LOTS of it came off that base in 5 gallon cans. Only time i needed octane boost was when i was cruising out of town. Wasnt till around 1980 that the sunoco gas went away in town. Most of the street racing scene had died around there by then and there just was a demand for it. In the late 80s when i fooled with turbo grand nationals i learned about meth injection and before that even water injection. 18 lbs of boost was about it with premium pump gas. With meth i could run 22 and gained about a 100 hp properly tuned for it.

Much more important the hp numbers it would increase torque even more and torque is what wins races. It was those cars that really got me into tuning. Most people hated computer controlled cars but like we know now it was about the best thing that ever happened to performance cars. We could control fuel air and timing all the way through the rpm range. Not just set it up for wide open throttle and in most cases hurt hp at any other rpm then wot. That said even the computers in those 86 and 87 GNs were crude by todays standards.

That right there is why today is the golden age of muscle cars. I always say its one thing we can thank the global warming idiots for. Those motors were basicaly the same 3.8 six cylinder in your grandmas delta 88 but with hyperkinetic pistons a bit better rod and a forged crank. In your grandmas car they put about 180 to the wheels. My second Gn that i modded put down 575 to the ground and that was only turning around 5500 rpm. Better then the hp number it just oozed torque. But unlike todays turbo cars it also oozed turbo lag. Boost didnt come in to around 3500 rpm and it felt like a stick of dynamite going off when it came on boost. My wife wouldnt even drive it. She left walmart one day and tried to jump traffic to get to the center medium of the road and it came on boost about half way across the road and went sideways. She never drove it again. I sold that car and bought another one stock. The only way she would go for it is if i swore to keep it stock.

 It ended up with a few bolt ons. Enough were it ran mid  to high 12s but it was nothing like the first one. I tracked that modded one once down in WI and it turned an 11.3. Thats hellcat territory out of a flipping buick regal with a 6 cyls and it (if you knew the car and werent stupid) was a very street able set up. Ive seen stock short block gns in the low 10s and still drove to the track. You didnt see anything close to low 11s in the 60s and 70s with any big block (street driven) and it still got 22 mpg with the air on. Truth be told back then the best big blocks rarely even broke into the 12s other then in car magazines  ;) I drove it cross country to MT to see my sister. Didnt even need to take a tool box. Something i never left home without in the 70s. Some yearn for the 70s and some of the most beautiful cars ever were produced then but myself? I had more fun in the 80s. Then a 12 second car was about as common as martians.

 Today low 12s are routine out of mid line muscle cars and right off the show room floor you can but a ford, chev or dodge that will do low 11s and some have even broke into the high 10s. I think the dodge demon even broke into the 9s with flipping dot drag radials. People that dont know just dont have a grasp on how fast that really is. Your talking times that prostock race cars did in the 60s and 70s that can take your kids to church. Oh to be in my 30s today!!
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Offline Casull

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2022, 08:26:41 AM »
Those GN's remind me of Glocks.  Effective, but butt ugly.   ;)
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2022, 09:42:10 PM »
different strokes i guess. i always thought they look sinister. I got more compliments on the two GNs i owned then every other muscle car ive ever had in my driveway. Kind of a modern black 55 chev. chiseled lines and none of that modern looking aero crap.
Those GN's remind me of Glocks.  Effective, but butt ugly.   ;)
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Offline neckisred

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2022, 10:25:42 PM »
Spot on Lloyd  8). Not a lot of people have ever driven or rode in a 10 second car. 

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2022, 03:28:42 AM »
Many that talk the talk would wet themselves in a mid 11 car. Thats FLIPPING FAST on the street. Drag radials are about mandatory unless you like kissing trees. Little perspective. Most 70s muscle cars never in the real world broke into the 12s and those were the fastest ones. cars like the 389 gtos 396 chevelles 428 mustangs ect were lucky to get into the 14s. Most of those cars were lucky to put down 200-250 to the wheels. A v6 camaro or challenger today would show them there license plate Heck theres a good chance your pickup would. 
Spot on Lloyd  8). Not a lot of people have ever driven or rode in a 10 second car.
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Offline Casull

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2022, 05:34:38 AM »
different strokes i guess. i always thought they look sinister. I got more compliments on the two GNs i owned then every other muscle car ive ever had in my driveway. Kind of a modern black 55 chev. chiseled lines and none of that modern looking aero crap.
Those GN's remind me of Glocks.  Effective, but butt ugly.   ;)



They just looked like 80's crap to me.  60's or early 70's vehicles were so much better looking.  I get it, they were fast.  But, they were homely.  Kind of like guys fixing up 80's Monte Carlos.  I always had to ask "why".
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2022, 10:00:38 PM »
you sure have a right to your opinion but id bet its in the minority. There were a few cars that i thought were good looking back then. The GNs, iroc camaros, ss montes, 442 cutlasses square body chev pickups. Performance wize most were dogs. The Gns were quick by 70s standards but not by todays standards. As were the 350 ci irocs and the c4 vettes. The montes and 442s were dogs. Now if they would have at least dropped that 350 tuned port iroc motor in them or better yet the turbo Gn drivetrain they might have interested me but not with a 305 4 barrel. But ill say this. ive had alot of nice muscle cars through the years. Three of them got the most compliments. My ss454 chevelle, my two gns and the challenger i have today.
 Challengers are a dime a dozen but mine is a rare one year only metalic green (not the neon green) and it attracts alot of attention. Now some of the ugly cars ive had. My  69 gtx was about a box. My duster was what i called a rolling beer can. My 65 malibu was another box on wheels,  My c4 vettes didnt exactly turn heads. My c5 zo6 was about but ugly if you asked me. Truth be told some of the ugliest muscle cars were made in the 60s and 70s. But that said some of the best looking ones too. but the GN. It had attitude. It looked mean and angry and some real rare back then it could back up its looks. 
different strokes i guess. i always thought they look sinister. I got more compliments on the two GNs i owned then every other muscle car ive ever had in my driveway. Kind of a modern black 55 chev. chiseled lines and none of that modern looking aero crap.
Those GN's remind me of Glocks.  Effective, but butt ugly.   ;)



They just looked like 80's crap to me.  60's or early 70's vehicles were so much better looking.  I get it, they were fast.  But, they were homely.  Kind of like guys fixing up 80's Monte Carlos.  I always had to ask "why".
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2022, 07:57:58 AM »
  When it comes to turning heads, it's only got to turn MY head, I don't care about anyone else's!

  I really like the 65 Chevelle Malibu SS', also the 66 Impala SS', in fact I LOVED my 66 Impala SS...  I had a 63 Impala SS with a 348 tri-power in it, I got a ticket for going 136 in a 55...OUCH!!  AT LEAST I smoked the 390 Torino I was racing!!  lol

  It didn't take me long to figure out that IF, I wanted to beat all the rich kids with their expensive cars, I needed to switch to motorcycles!!  And I did!

  DM
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2022, 09:04:23 AM »
This series, which is heavily regulated , with tires as close as one can buy today equal to those sixty years ago, is fascinating as it shows what those cars were capable off with serious , stock parts, as far as possible, tuning.

Some when qualifiying sandbag, but if they go too quick in a race that was a waste of time as they are disqualified.
It gives an idea of what the cars from that era would be capable of, now, if they used all the after market parts available nowadays compared to those days when there was damn near nothing available to the general public, that was not back-room factory.

Highlights from the 2021 Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags


https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2022/01/06/picture-perfect-weather-welcomes-the-annual-showroom-stock-showdown-in-stanton


A host of Studebakers are regularly seen at the Pure Stock events, including (left to right) George Krem’s 1964 Plain Brown Wrapper Challenger, Ted Harbit’s 1963 Flyin’ Tomato Lark, and Chuck Kern’s 1963 Avanti.


Wiped the tread off your rear tires in the burnout box? No worries—a select number of replacements were available this year, courtesy of fellow Pure Stock veteran Rusty Small.

Offline Casull

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2022, 10:28:21 AM »
you sure have a right to your opinion but id bet its in the minority. There were a few cars that i thought were good looking back then. The GNs, iroc camaros, ss montes, 442 cutlasses square body chev pickups. Performance wize most were dogs. The Gns were quick by 70s standards but not by todays standards. As were the 350 ci irocs and the c4 vettes. The montes and 442s were dogs. Now if they would have at least dropped that 350 tuned port iroc motor in them or better yet the turbo Gn drivetrain they might have interested me but not with a 305 4 barrel. But ill say this. ive had alot of nice muscle cars through the years. Three of them got the most compliments. My ss454 chevelle, my two gns and the challenger i have today.
 Challengers are a dime a dozen but mine is a rare one year only metalic green (not the neon green) and it attracts alot of attention. Now some of the ugly cars ive had. My  69 gtx was about a box. My duster was what i called a rolling beer can. My 65 malibu was another box on wheels,  My c4 vettes didnt exactly turn heads. My c5 zo6 was about but ugly if you asked me. Truth be told some of the ugliest muscle cars were made in the 60s and 70s. But that said some of the best looking ones too. but the GN. It had attitude. It looked mean and angry and some real rare back then it could back up its looks. 
different strokes i guess. i always thought they look sinister. I got more compliments on the two GNs i owned then every other muscle car ive ever had in my driveway. Kind of a modern black 55 chev. chiseled lines and none of that modern looking aero crap.
Those GN's remind me of Glocks.  Effective, but butt ugly.   ;)



They just looked like 80's crap to me.  60's or early 70's vehicles were so much better looking.  I get it, they were fast.  But, they were homely.  Kind of like guys fixing up 80's Monte Carlos.  I always had to ask "why".



Lloyd, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  For looks, I'll take a 1970 to 1972 Monte Carlo over ANYTHING from the 80's.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2022, 09:45:04 PM »
now there we will agree. My cousin had a 70 ss454 monte carlo and it was a gorgeous car. Id love to have it today. It was a ls5 not an ls6 but it still got down the road. Its only downfall was it didnt hook up well. To much weight up forward with that long front end and the big block. But what a cruiser! About as classy as it got. I always forget those monte's when im talking best looking car of the 70s. they were every bit as sharp as the chevelles.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2022, 09:56:18 PM »
My second car was a 65 impala ss convertable. Red with white interior and top. It was a beauty. A bit underpowered though with just a 300hp 327. But the cool thing was it was a convertable and was a 4 speed. Not many around like that. It was the home comming parade car for 3 years in our town. I went in the service and my little sister borrowed it to go to college that next fall and totaled it. It had a neat (well sad) history. My dad and his neighbor were out back listening to a tigers game when i showed up. We started talking about the fact i was shopping for a car because my 440 gtx was road hard and put away wet when i bought it and it had a rod knock that was getting worse every day. He said come next door with me. In his garage there was a covered car. He pulled the cover off of it and it looked brand new other then some ass had broke into the garage and took a knife to the top. He said it was his sons who died in viet nam. Said he bought it down south and when he died the father had it shipped home. Said he couldnt bring himself to drive it. It only had 21k on it. I bought it for a grand. Still have a soft spot for those mid 60s impalas. Everyone loves the early ones and i will admit that I always say the prettiest car ever made was the 61 ss bubble top but i like the 65=66 better then i do the 62-64s. But that said they were all sharp. Even the 67-68. Kind of ruined it for me in 69 though. but if i won the lotto tommarow the first thing i would look for is a 61 bubble top 409ss.
  When it comes to turning heads, it's only got to turn MY head, I don't care about anyone else's!

  I really like the 65 Chevelle Malibu SS', also the 66 Impala SS', in fact I LOVED my 66 Impala SS...  I had a 63 Impala SS with a 348 tri-power in it, I got a ticket for going 136 in a 55...OUCH!!  AT LEAST I smoked the 390 Torino I was racing!!  lol

  It didn't take me long to figure out that IF, I wanted to beat all the rich kids with their expensive cars, I needed to switch to motorcycles!!  And I did!

  DM
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2022, 03:31:47 AM »
  Both my 63 and 66 had 4-speeds in them...  My buddy had a 60 ? Pontiac "Bonneville" with a 4-speed, 389 tri-power, it was light blue with white interior.  I think that was the first car I ever drove that had a stick AND power steering!  That was a big deal back in the day, "power steering"!  lol

   Anyway, he was from Pickford and was going like a bat out of hell down the road when a big blk. bear ran out in front of him and he hit it, smashing that Pontiac up, bad enough that it never got fixed.  Dang, that was a nice car...

  DM

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2022, 09:49:45 PM »
that isnt pickford michigan by any chance is it?
  Both my 63 and 66 had 4-speeds in them...  My buddy had a 60 ? Pontiac "Bonneville" with a 4-speed, 389 tri-power, it was light blue with white interior.  I think that was the first car I ever drove that had a stick AND power steering!  That was a big deal back in the day, "power steering"!  lol

   Anyway, he was from Pickford and was going like a bat out of hell down the road when a big blk. bear ran out in front of him and he hit it, smashing that Pontiac up, bad enough that it never got fixed.  Dang, that was a nice car...

  DM
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2022, 06:42:56 AM »
  Yes, Pickford in the U.P....  His dad had a farm near there, him mom and dad have passed away now, and I heard even the house is gone, I haven't been by there in a long time.

  DM

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Bringing A Classic LS6 454 Back To Factory Specs
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2022, 09:45:05 PM »
  Yes, Pickford in the U.P....  His dad had a farm near there, him mom and dad have passed away now, and I heard even the house is gone, I haven't been by there in a long time.

  DM
I have a few cousins that live in pickford. My dad was raised in cedarville and my ma was from Detour. My dad was raised on a small farm about half way between pickford and cedarville till his dad died when he was 13 and they lost the farm. That farm is long gone now too. The field is still being used to farm but the old buildings and the house are long gone. We left there in 63. Dad worked at the dolomite quarry on Drumond island and was layed off as much as he working and got a job at KI Sawer afb in Gwinn near Marquette and we moved to gwinn and thats where i spent most of my life. I live in Munising Now.  I still kick around the idea of buying a place in Detour. I love that area and it just feels more like home then any other place ive been. I wish i could find a place to rent for the summer there but thats about impossible anymore. the tourists have  made it to expensive. That is a nice straight road between pickford and cedarville though. I dont remember there being much racing in that area back in the 70s though. Just wasnt enough good paying jobs in the area and those types of cars were a bit rarer there then around Marquette. Odd fact for you. Did you know that pickford is the only dry town in michigan. You cant even buy a beer there. Not one bar in the whole town and there never was one. Typical UP town has a bar for about every 100 people. At least it used to be that way. Lots of bars closed in recent years. Probably due to the tougher drunk driving laws. When i moved to Munising in 86 there was 8 bars within 5 miles of town. Now theres only two.
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