Of all the nuclear powers of the world..

[ironglow]

   Curiously, I have told people that the 60 year marriage between myself and my wife, was partially due to the
  fact that the "big D" word (Divorce) was never passed between us..thus, it remained "unthinkable".

     Similarly, of all the nuclear powers of the world, only one major nuclear power* ever has threatened to actually use their nuclear weapons.
  Not only has Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons, he even claims he will stage a nuclear "test" near the Ukraine border !  Never mind the threat of fallout, to either Ukrainians or the Russian people !

 https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/

      I have thus far more or less ignored reports of his mental instability, thinking that perhaps our own
   Joe Biden was somewhat unique among the major powers, but these latest babblings cause one to wonder.

    Is he just pretending that he  may "wig out"..or is there the actual possibility that he may do so?

   *  I said "major nuclear power", because L'il Kim is a minor power, and nearly all accept his
    nuttiness as genuine.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ever wonder what the world would have thought about truman (a democrat by the way) dropping the nukes if the internet existed back then. He didnt talk he actually used them and used them at a point that the war was already basically won. I wonder if after seeing what it did he later regretted that decision. I wonder if he didnt have some kind of God complex just like putin. He was  guilty of the killing of more women and children in two days then putin has in this war.

   Guriously, i hv etold peoplethat the 60 year marriage between myself and my wife, was partially due to the
  fact that the "big D" word (Divorce) was never passed between us..thus, it remained "unthinkable".

     Similarly, of all the nuclear powers of the world, only one major nuclear power ever has threatened to actually use their nuclear weapons.
  Not only has Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons, he even claims he will stage a nuclear "test" near the Ukraine border !  Never mind the threat of fallout, to either Ukrainians or the Russian people !

 https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/

      I have thus far more or less ignored reports of his mental instability, thinking that perhaps our own
   Joe Biden was somewhat unique among the major powers, but these latest babblings cause one to wonder.

    Is he just pretending that he  may "wig out"..or is there the actual possibility that he may do so?

[Dixie-Dude]

Because of their fanaticism, the Iranians should not get nukes.  They would be the ones who would probably actually use them.  The Saudi's as well as Israel do not want Iran to get nukes. 

[Dee]

   Curiously, I have told people that the 60 year marriage between myself and my wife, was partially due to the
  fact that the "big D" word (Divorce) was never passed between us..thus, it remained "unthinkable".

     Similarly, of all the nuclear powers of the world, only one major nuclear power* ever has threatened to actually use their nuclear weapons.
  Not only has Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons, he even claims he will stage a nuclear "test" near the Ukraine border !  Never mind the threat of fallout, to either Ukrainians or the Russian people !

 https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/

      I have thus far more or less ignored reports of his mental instability, thinking that perhaps our own
   Joe Biden was somewhat unique among the major powers, but these latest babblings cause one to wonder.

    Is he just pretending that he  may "wig out"..or is there the actual possibility that he may do so?

   *  I said "major nuclear power", because L'il Kim is a minor power, and nearly all accept his
    nuttiness as genuine.

Out of all the nuclear superpowers of the world, only the United States has actually used nuclear weapons.

Pootuns threat of nuclear deployment is an obvious indicator of his desperation. Any thinking person can see that.

OBVIOUSLY, his conventional weaponry,  and tactics aren't working, so hes going to the biggest thing hes got.

[ironglow]

From Lloyd;
  "Ever wonder what the world would have thought about truman (a democrat by the way) dropping the nukes if the internet existed back then. He didnt talk he actually used them and used them at a point that the war was already basically won. I wonder if after seeing what it did he later regretted that decision. I wonder if he didnt have some kind of God complex just like putin. He was  guilty of the killing of more women and children in two days then putin has in this war."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Yes I agree that the 199,000 Japanese lives lost due to the 1945 atomic bombing, was a tragedy.  ...And having
  seen the nightmare of nuclear war , in a very minor way..we should keep the very thought, as "unthinkable". However, it would be the height of naivete to ignore how many lives were saved by the bombing..   Military intelligence of the time estimated it to be 30 million, others estimated it as 32 million..

  https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/AUPress/Book-Reviews/Display/Article/2462838/atomic-salvation-how-the-a-bomb-saved-the-lives-of-32-million-people/

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know ironglow. Nobody will really know. I do know Germany was done and that japan was about beaten. there troops for most part were all back in japan. There naval fleet and air power was all but destroyed and they had no allies left. Id think a simple naval and air blockade stopping food and essentials from reaching japan would have accomplished the same thing without a single american stepping foot on the shores of japan.

From Lloyd;
  "Ever wonder what the world would have thought about truman (a democrat by the way) dropping the nukes if the internet existed back then. He didnt talk he actually used them and used them at a point that the war was already basically won. I wonder if after seeing what it did he later regretted that decision. I wonder if he didnt have some kind of God complex just like putin. He was  guilty of the killing of more women and children in two days then putin has in this war."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Yes I agree that the 199,000 Japanese lives lost due to the 1945 atomic bombing, was a tragedy.  ...And having
  seen the nightmare of nuclear war , in a very minor way..we should keep the very thought, as "unthinkable". However, it would be the height of naivete to ignore how many lives were saved by the bombing..   Military intelligence of the time estimated it to be 30 million, others estimated it as 32 million..

  https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/AUPress/Book-Reviews/Display/Article/2462838/atomic-salvation-how-the-a-bomb-saved-the-lives-of-32-million-people/

[ironglow]

  In any case, any sane leader should keep the thought of nuclear exchange as an "unthinkable".

[Lloyd Smale]

agreed but we know the word SANE is out the door.

[NWBear]

If the bombs were not dropped I would not be here. My Dad was a POW in Japan, where they practiced the extermination of all prisoners - prior to the bomb.  They told him they were going to kill all POW's if the Allies invaded Japan.  He was actually at a alternative site for the drop in case they could not get a visual at Nagasaki.  The bombers had to have a visual sighting before dropping the bombs.

[Dee]

Roosevelt actually started the war with Japan by cutting their oil off unannounced. Roosevelt WANTED in the war.
Incineration of 200,000 folks, and poisoning several hundred thousand more to end a war that the United States government wanted in, has no real justification.

[billy_56081]

I find it hard to believe McArthur had an issue with nuking the Japs. He was all in on nuking China during the Korean War.

[billy_56081]

I find it hard to believe McArthur had an issue with nuking the Japs. He was all in on nuking China during the Korean War.

.
For one thing I don't think MacArthur was aware of any atomic bombs ready to use. And I don't think he learned of the nuke attacks on Japan until after the attacks were done.
.

You seem to be contradicting yourself,  how could he be against using something he didn't know they had?

[Lloyd Smale]

dont you find some hypocrisy in the fact that nazis were tried for war crimes for trying to exterminate the jews but the people who bombed japan who was already beaten and exterminated almost a quarter of a million people in 2 days got pats on the back and some even probably got medals. Were we really any better then germany or japan? It was in the top two of all time biggest war crimes. i detest russian, china, korea and japan but would be the first to condemn us if we dropped a nuke on them unless it was in retaliation for one they dropped on us. WW3 won't be a war you read about on then newspaper or see on tv. It will be in your back yard and the show will be a quick one. It scares the hell out of me that mankind is in the hands of putin and biden. Two men that know THEY will not probably be here in 5 years anyway.

[ironglow]

  Is trading 199,000 lives  worth saving 30,000,000 lives?

   I have no doubt the casualties would have been that high, one only has to understand the depth of the
    "emperor worship cult" that permeated all of Japan at the time, to  understand how every man, woman and
   child, would have resisted to their very last breath !

   Our troops had just suffered through a 4 year war, brought to us courtesy of the emperor worshippers, and I
   would not want to be the president who committed about 50,000 American troops to death..once the American
    public found that he could have saved all those American soldier's lives, by taking the war to those who started
   it !

[ironglow]

If the bombs were not dropped I would not be here. My Dad was a POW in Japan, where they practiced the extermination of all prisoners - prior to the bomb.  They told him they were going to kill all POW's if the Allies invaded Japan.  He was actually at a alternative site for the drop in case they could not get a visual at Nagasaki.  The bombers had to have a visual sighting before dropping the bombs.

   Good point, NW !

    Toward the end of WW2, Gen Eisenhower was criticized for holding American troops at the Elbe River, thus allowing the Russians to take the city of Berlin.
   Yes, it would have been nice to have American troops take it, but there was some good reasons perhaps,
    for what Gen Eisenhower did.

   Estimates for the Russian deaths inthe operation, run from 70,000 to 80,000, wirh sick or wounded
   running to 200,000.

  Sometimes there is more to a story than first meets the eye..

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin#:~:text=According%20to%20Grigoriy%20Krivosheev's,sick%20during%20the%20operational%20period.

   https://www.liberationroute.com/stories/191/battle-of-berlin

 

[Dee]

  Is trading 199,000 lives  worth saving 30,000,000 lives?

   I have no doubt the casualties would have been that high, one only has to understand the depth of the
    "emperor worship cult" that permeated all of Japan at the time, to  understand how every man, woman and
   child, would have resisted to their very last breath !

   Our troops had just suffered through a 4 year war, brought to us courtesy of the emperor worshippers, and I
   would not want to be the president who committed about 50,000 American troops to death..once the American
    public found that he could have saved all those American soldier's lives, by taking the war to those who started
   it !

How can you continually ignore historical fact? It's been known for decades that FDR wanted in the war and intentionally provoked Japan to attack the United States by suddenly cutting off their oil.

[ironglow]

  Is trading 199,000 lives  worth saving 30,000,000 lives?

   I have no doubt the casualties would have been that high, one only has to understand the depth of the
    "emperor worship cult" that permeated all of Japan at the time, to  understand how every man, woman and
   child, would have resisted to their very last breath !

   Our troops had just suffered through a 4 year war, brought to us courtesy of the emperor worshippers, and I
   would not want to be the president who committed about 50,000 American troops to death..once the American
    public found that he could have saved all those American soldier's lives, by taking the war to those who started
   it !

How can you continually ignore historical fact? It's been known for decades that FDR wanted in the war and intentionally provoked Japan to attack the United States by suddenly cutting off their oil.

  Look again...I didn't say a word about the start of WW2 !    I only spoke about the end of the war..and
   conditions prevailing at that time.

[ironglow]

So IG......you don't believe there was already a surrender and Peace Treaty on the table when Truman dropped the bombs....?
.

   From my studies..there was a treaty on a Japanese table, right after the bomb destroyed Hiroshima, but
   general Tojo kept the emperor from seeing it. After Nagasaki, he could no longer keep the emperor in the dark.
 
  Another factor which held it up, was that many influential Japanese wanted assurances that the emperor would
   not be punished.

  Although MacArthur had his flaws, his many years of service i the far east served him well.  He knew that the
   emperor left alive and well despite all else, would be a pacifying influence during the occupation.

  ...And so it proved out...

[Lloyd Smale]

i see him as another biden. another nobody democrat that just wanted his name in the history books. As to killing pow's. I doubt that would have happened. They already knew the war was lost and if they intended on killing them it would have already been done. i had two uncles die in that war. both of there wives would tell you they joined and werent drafted and knew they could possibly be killed and went there with open eyes. id bet if i could ask them today if there life meant more then a 10,000 japanese women and children they would probably cold cock me for even dare asking that question. They like my dad were raised as christians.  As to if someone would have not been born because of it. Thats a question for God. He decides who is born on earth.