Ammo for .22 carry handgun..

[ironglow]

  Nope...this is not meant to lead into a discussion of rimfire vs centerfire..  this is about .22 ammo, LR specific..

  It appears that in a short, pocket gun..e.g. Beretta Bobcat..the bullets rarely mushroom, so it appears that there is no point in expecting mushrooming to happen, so since round nose seem to be more reliable feeding, may as well stick with CCI 40 gr RN.

   In longer barrel guns mushrooming is more likely, so the choice is broader.  Paul Harrell demonstrates with what I would consider
   a fairly realistic medium.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpQEKhpuMco

   Lucky Gunner adds some info for pocket pistols and .22s in general, although I think Harrell's medium of choice is more realistic.

   In any case..shot placement is primary.

[gene_225]

My experience is somewhat different. Years ago I accidentally put a bullet through my hand with a Beretta Bobcat (22 lr). The bullet hit a finger and broke up. Some of the lead particles are still in there. Can't say it mushroomed, but it definitely broke up. Don't remember what brand ammo.

[ironglow]

My experience is somewhat different. Years ago I accidentally put a bullet through my hand with a Beretta Bobcat (22 lr). The bullet hit a finger and broke up. Some of the lead particles are still in there. Can't say it mushroomed, but it definitely broke up. Don't remember what brand ammo.

  You are correct..if you watched the video, you can see that when a .22 round hits bone, in this case a rib.. it does break up...which is why I don't take the gel tests as seriously.  Two or three shots, whether body, head or limb..at least one is bound to hit bone.  So perhaps a Stinger or Yellow Jacket is a viable choice for a pocket pistol.

[gene_225]

Sorry I usually don't watch the videos because without sound they don't tell much. And with sound they wake my wife up. Thanks for the clarification.

[Dee]

Well, since center fire rounds are off the table, I recommend a bar of Irish Spring in a sock.

[ironglow]

..   Research
   
   https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

[Dee]

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

[ironglow]

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

   Did you read the link?  Then too, situations differ..   Could be, knowing the nature and use of the various .32 guns..
   the shooting by them is near pressed against the flesh...

  Check the article..then discuss.

[Dee]

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

   Did you read the link?  Then too, situations differ..   Could be, knowing the nature and use of the various .32 guns..
   the shooting by them is near pressed against the flesh...

  Check the article..then discuss.

I've actually seen real "contact wounds" with a 32 revolver, and a 357 magnum, and there is no comparison. The chart is BS.

[JustaShooter]

  Check the article..then discuss.

Indeed.  The *actual research* and empirical data behind this chart (produced by a nearly unimpeachable source to boot) can be dismissed only by those that come with preconceived notions and anecdotal evidence.  And, really, the biggest takeaway is "all handguns suck at stopping a threat" just about equally badly.  Anything more than that and you are arguing a few percentage points one way or the other.

[Casull]

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

Well, it also shows the 357 ahead of the 44 magnum.  I'm guessing shot placement is what caused the results.  It's easier to be more precise with a smaller caliber.  The 22 comes in right at 357 level.  A 32 to the heart will drop someone faster than a 357 to the shoulder.

[Dee]

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

Well, it also shows the 357 ahead of the 44 magnum.  I'm guessing shot placement is what caused the results.  It's easier to be more precise with a smaller caliber.  The 22 comes in right at 357 level.  A 32 to the heart will drop someone faster than a 357 to the shoulder.

The 44 magnum doesn't dump all its energy into the target. It historically over penetrates. The 125 grain semi jacketed HP in a 357 magnum historically dumps almost all, if not all its energy into the target when considering the human body the target.

The FBI police shooting records of nation wide police involved shootings have been kept, and published to law enforcement agencies for decades. In those records, that same 125 grain semi jacketed HP in 357 magnum STILL HOLDS the best "one shot stopping" record in police involved shootings nation wide. It is what it is.

The author of the chart says:

[Lloyd Smale]

handgun hunting taught me one thing. That is not to rely on ANY handgun to be a stopper. Ive shot deer with 500 Linebaugh's that walked away not knowing there dead and pile up 40 yards away. Even a 357 is lame on a 130lb deer. Why would it be the hammer of thor on a person. Now i agree that if push came to shove and i was in a close up and personal gunfight with a handgun id prefer a 357 to a 38 or 32 or 9mm. But when we trained with handguns multiple hits were emphasized. Shoot till the threat is no longer twitching. but then its frowned on unfortunately for police to shoot a bad guy 10 times. We didnt have to worry about that. For that give me somehting like a glock 9mm or 40 with some capacity. But if you think a 357 or even a 44 mag is going to blow someone off there feet ive got a bridge. One shot stopping kills with handguns only happen if your lucky enough to hit the central nervous system (spine brain ect) What you need is a gun that will push a bullet well enough to get there though. Anything less will about guarantee if you have someone that wants to hurt you hes going to have plenty of time before his judgement shot with any handgun. I still chuckle at the old storys about the 44 mag and even the good old 1911 that if you hit someone in the hand it would tear there arm off. I said id prefer a 357 but my real opinion on it is it doesnt much matter. There's two types of people. Its the fight or flight thing. Some shot with a 22 will curl up in a ball or get out of dodge as fast as they can. The other type are the drugged up and amped up type that when you shoot them with your 357 what you did was piss them off for the 20 seconds it takes for them to bleed out and good luck to you. So i dont worry as much about the caliber of what i have then i do how long it will take me to empty it into that sob. Now i will surely concede that dee has a bit more knowlege in this area then the rest of us. But for every survey you can find that lists one certain caliber as the best you can find two others that disagree. Why? Go back to deer hunting. You can hit 5 different deer with the same gun in the same place and all 5 of them will react differently. One may drop one may take a couple leaps and pile up. One might run 200 yards. So a survey of stopping power done on multiple humans killed by gunfire all being hit in even a slightly different spot is about good for toliet paper. My real opinion. HANDGUNS ARE NOT STOPPING WEAPONS IN ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

[Lloyd Smale]

I havent done tests on humans but have done LOTS of penetration testing with about every handgun known to man. I will argue your 44 mag thing. compare a 110 or 125 out of a 357 to a 240 out of a 44 mag and yup the 44 mag will punch through and put energy into the ground. Now change that and load something like a 180 seirra hp up to 1400 fps and it will make a much bigger wound channel then a 357 and penetrate no further. As to the thought that a 44 dumps its energy into the ground and a 357 dumps it into a person that theroy is flawed. Handguns dont kill by dumping energy. They kill by creating a wound channel that lets whatevers hit bleed out or by a lucky shot to the centeral nervous system. Keep in mind that even an unexpanded 44 slug is as big as an expanded 357 so while its in the body its dumping that energy  that really doesnt matter. If anyone thinks different hang a 100lb sack of feed corn on you clothes line pole and shoot it with a 357. It wont even budge. Then try a 44 mag. Same results. Try a 500 linebaugh it still wont budge. Heck shoot it with a 300 wby it still wont move. Energy dump means about nothing. If the theroy on the 357 being better the a 44 holds water why do even deer hunters prefer a 44 a 100 to 1 over a 357. Most likely there is one reason the 44 is not as good of a killer in those comparisons and thats the same reason the 357 is no longer in the hands of most police. Its just to hard for an inexperienced shooter to master and police depts today have all they can do to afford ammo for qualifying one a year let alone thousands of rounds to get someone actually competent with a gun so they use 9s becuase they dont scare those people that only shoot them once or twice a year. Give some 150 lb 22 year old cop a 44 mag with full power loads and tell him to qualify and hed be better off throwing rocks and it would no doubt ruin him as a shooter for the rest of his life.  But without even a shadow of doubt if i was walking into walmart and some crack crazed sob was comming at me or my family and i could stop time and choose a gun and it HAD to be a handgun id take a 44 loaded a 180hps any day over a 357 loaded with anything. Ive seen the mess those 180s will do on flesh.

So that "fantasy chart" shows the 32 caliber ahead of the 357 magnum. 

Well, it also shows the 357 ahead of the 44 magnum.  I'm guessing shot placement is what caused the results.  It's easier to be more precise with a smaller caliber.  The 22 comes in right at 357 level.  A 32 to the heart will drop someone faster than a 357 to the shoulder.

The 44 magnum doesn't dump all its energy into the target. It historically over penetrates. The 125 grain semi jacketed HP in a 357 magnum historically dumps almost all, if not all its energy into the target when considering the human body the target.

The FBI police shooting records of nation wide police involved shootings have been kept, and published to law enforcement agencies for decades. In those records, that same 125 grain semi jacketed HP in 357 magnum STILL HOLDS the best "one shot stopping" record in police involved shootings nation wide. It is what it is.

The author of the chart says:

[ironglow]

   As said in my OP, and backed by some here...     " In any case..shot placement is primary."  

     That in itself, can explain much..  I don't know about others, but I am a far better shot with a .22 than I am with a heavy centerfire.

   I say that with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, since being a rifleman at heart, I freely admit that  am no great shakes
  with a handgun.

   If I could shoot a handgun like any of my grandsons..2 experienced LEOs, one combat experienced, I would be a much better
    pistol shot.

      Frankly, I think a .22 rifle semi-auto, such as a marlin 60 or 10/22, would make a very effective deterrent under most conditions.

     5-6 Velocitors, well aimed to the face or body, could be an effective deterrent.. but of course, situations differ.

   Here again..we digress..the OP was aimed at .22 only.