Author Topic: Finally doing it  (Read 720 times)

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Offline oldandslow

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Finally doing it
« on: December 02, 2022, 04:07:45 AM »
Wife has been after me for quite sometime to cover the whole back yard in concrete. The crew is out there working on it right now. Unlike Ranger's luck I was told they would be here at around 10 o'clock yestersay morning to remove the dirt after doing a small job to the north. They were here before 10. They showed up at 7 o'clock this morning to set forms and pour concrete. They have the ground packed, forms in, dowels set to tie to the old concrete, reinforcing wire laid, and are ready for the cement truck to arrive.

Even the weather is supposed to co-operate with no freezing temps for the next week. By the way, I looked at some of their work before hiring them. 20 years ago I would have done it myself with a little grandson help but I can't even get down on my knees anymore.

It's 8:06 and the truck just drove in. I have to go watch this.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 04:15:48 AM »
  Howcum?  I wouldn't dream of covering my lawn..with concrete or blacktop.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2022, 04:37:54 AM »
I don't know what they put in
concrete these days, but it seems
very fragile
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline oldandslow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 04:53:49 AM »
IG, consider it a large patio. Grass takes constant watering, fertilizing, weed control, and mowing to look good in this area of sparce rainfall. It's expensive and a lot of work. Now a leaf blower and a water hose once in a great while will keep it in perfect shape. I still have the side and front yard to keep me busy fighting Mother Nature. Quite a few of the newer homes in town have no lawn at all. If I could afford it my entire driveway would have been blacktopped but I have quite a lot of driveway so that is out. Crushed gravel has to do. Weeds grow just as well in gravel as they do in dirt so I do a lot of drive way spraying when we get a little rain. Even a heavy dew makes them sprout.

All I know about today's concrete qualities is that everything around here seems to stay in good shape.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 11:47:10 AM »
I have a couple nieces who live in Nevada, near Tahoe..they 'pave' their yards with selected rocks.  I guess grass is a struggle to keep there.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2022, 12:43:39 PM »
Not all batch plant mixes are equal.  On state jobs, city, and township jobs. Each truck has a sample taken from it in cylinders and let sit for around 7 days. Then its sent to a lab for a crush test. If its a 3500 pound mix it should break at 65% or 2275psi of the mix design. So when doing a pour the driver and batch plant know will be tested they are much more careful about the mix and the water added. They know that for home owners doing a pour the home owner isn't going to require a break test of their concrete. So they may cheat on the mix to save money. The contractor will also many times have the driver add more water to make the pour more workable. Which makes the concrete not as strong. They know most home owners know nothing about slump tests and will never perform one. Each inch of slump is equal to about 500psi in a crush test. I have seen pours where the mix is very watered down, which ends up in concrete cracking, and low strength.
 
Concrete should be cured slowly also. The longer there is hydration in concrete the more strength it is gaining. Most contractors will spray concrete with curing compound which I believe doesn't work near has good covering a pour with something like burlap, and a weep hose under it to keep it damp for at least 7 days.  I poured my basement floor when I built my house 35 years ago. I made sure there was not much water added to the mix, and after it was finished I kept it wet for over 7 days, and still today there is not one crack in my floor. I have seen pads poured when its hot, and the concrete not covered and kept wet, And the pad ends up with hundreds of cracks in it. Never rely on a contractor to do it right. Time is money to them, and most dump way to much water into the mix, and never tell the home owner to keep it wet.

At 40 degrees concrete curing can even stop, and be subject to freezing if not enough curing has taken place before colder temps happen. If its 50 degrees for two or 3 days after the pour you should be good.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Dee

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2022, 12:51:11 PM »
Dang, didn't know any of that. Good to know.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Online Mule 11

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2022, 02:14:25 PM »
Not all batch plant mixes are equal.  On state jobs, city, and township jobs. Each truck has a sample taken from it in cylinders and let sit for around 7 days. Then its sent to a lab for a crush test. If its a 3500 pound mix it should break at 65% or 2275psi of the mix design. So when doing a pour the driver and batch plant know will be tested they are much more careful about the mix and the water added. They know that for home owners doing a pour the home owner isn't going to require a break test of their concrete. So they may cheat on the mix to save money. The contractor will also many times have the driver add more water to make the pour more workable. Which makes the concrete not as strong. They know most home owners know nothing about slump tests and will never perform one. Each inch of slump is equal to about 500psi in a crush test. I have seen pours where the mix is very watered down, which ends up in concrete cracking, and low strength.
 
Concrete should be cured slowly also. The longer there is hydration in concrete the more strength it is gaining. Most contractors will spray concrete with curing compound which I believe doesn't work near has good covering a pour with something like burlap, and a weep hose under it to keep it damp for at least 7 days.  I poured my basement floor when I built my house 35 years ago. I made sure there was not much water added to the mix, and after it was finished I kept it wet for over 7 days, and still today there is not one crack in my floor. I have seen pads poured when its hot, and the concrete not covered and kept wet, And the pad ends up with hundreds of cracks in it. Never rely on a contractor to do it right. Time is money to them, and most dump way to much water into the mix, and never tell the home owner to keep it wet.

At 40 degrees concrete curing can even stop, and be subject to freezing if not enough curing has taken place before colder temps happen. If its 50 degrees for two or 3 days after the pour you should be good.

Since ground temps in my area are 50 degrees, foundation walls and post holes set in unmolested soil should be good, correct? I realize there are many exceptions to the rule, so, generally speaking. As the rocket scientist said to his lab assistant “ it’s not tile setting “

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2022, 03:36:23 AM »
Not all batch plant mixes are equal.  On state jobs, city, and township jobs. Each truck has a sample taken from it in cylinders and let sit for around 7 days. Then its sent to a lab for a crush test. If its a 3500 pound mix it should break at 65% or 2275psi of the mix design. So when doing a pour the driver and batch plant know will be tested they are much more careful about the mix and the water added. They know that for home owners doing a pour the home owner isn't going to require a break test of their concrete. So they may cheat on the mix to save money. The contractor will also many times have the driver add more water to make the pour more workable. Which makes the concrete not as strong. They know most home owners know nothing about slump tests and will never perform one. Each inch of slump is equal to about 500psi in a crush test. I have seen pours where the mix is very watered down, which ends up in concrete cracking, and low strength.
 
Concrete should be cured slowly also. The longer there is hydration in concrete the more strength it is gaining. Most contractors will spray concrete with curing compound which I believe doesn't work near has good covering a pour with something like burlap, and a weep hose under it to keep it damp for at least 7 days.  I poured my basement floor when I built my house 35 years ago. I made sure there was not much water added to the mix, and after it was finished I kept it wet for over 7 days, and still today there is not one crack in my floor. I have seen pads poured when its hot, and the concrete not covered and kept wet, And the pad ends up with hundreds of cracks in it. Never rely on a contractor to do it right. Time is money to them, and most dump way to much water into the mix, and never tell the home owner to keep it wet.

At 40 degrees concrete curing can even stop, and be subject to freezing if not enough curing has taken place before colder temps happen. If its 50 degrees for two or 3 days after the pour you should be good.
Yes concrete poured in holes, or footers are not subject as much to

Since ground temps in my area are 50 degrees, foundation walls and post holes set in unmolested soil should be good, correct? I realize there are many exceptions to the rule, so, generally speaking. As the rocket scientist said to his lab assistant “ it’s not tile setting “

Yes concrete poured in footings, and in the ground are not subject to atmospheric temps as much as say a pour above ground. That is unless the ground is frozen to a depth of a foot or more. At 50 degrees the concrete will have a slower cure, but will be fine.  Concrete can be poured in cold temps. Its just that the concrete has to be protected for a time to keep from freezing if it is exposed to freezing temps. In or under ground there is no problem.
 
I remember when I fist started in heavy construction in the 70's . I was working on a big bridge job that included building 6 bridges. We were pouring a bridge pier cap on a very cold day. One time there was a little delay in getting the next truck and the concrete had started to freeze in the pump truck hose. After the pour the forms were insulated, a tent built over the cap, with space heaters to keep the concrete from any freezing.  I was surprised the inspectors let the pour happen, but inspectors can and are payed off. That bridge pier and cap still stands today, and is in good condition. 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline oldandslow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2022, 05:16:49 AM »
I was aware of the crush test as the company where I took my ASME Code 9-6G welding tests also did concrete testing and some other construction material testing they did onsite. Home owners don't get that and have to rely on the reputation of the concrete company and the company doing the work.

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 05:40:36 AM »
I have a pool and the city wouldn't let me pour but the minimum of concrete around the pool.  They have a rule about run off water.  So I used pavers to expand the patio area.  I was only allowed to put 3' width around the pool.  Pavers allow water to go through the cracks between them.  However I have a problem with weeds getting in the cracks.  Bleach works as good as Round-up to kill them. 
Opelika Portal

Offline phalanx

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2022, 05:41:40 AM »
Italians are good with Concrete and Brick & Mortar jobs. The construction company i was at used them a lot out east.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
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Offline phalanx

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2022, 05:44:44 AM »
I have a pool and the city wouldn't let me pour but the minimum of concrete around the pool.  They have a rule about run off water.  So I used pavers to expand the patio area.  I was only allowed to put 3' width around the pool.  Pavers allow water to go through the cracks between them.  However I have a problem with weeds getting in the cracks.  Bleach works as good as Round-up to kill them.

Bleach , now that’s good to know.cheaper too.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2022, 08:47:44 AM »
DDZ.,,....

Not to change the subject too much, but I see expanded concrete block and form systems are quite commonly used outside the US in construction projects. The advantages being blocks are 80% lighter than standard cement blocks, can be cut and shaped like wood, and take far less material. And have insulation qualities.

Have you seen expanded concrete in use, and what are your impressions?
.

I have read about those. I haven't seen them in use in any construction around here yet. Are they the polystyrene foam blocks you are talking about? I know they make these blocks that can be laid and then concrete poured inside them. the blocks also are the insulation for a home or building. I do believe they make solid polystyrene blocks that are said to be strong enough to support the weight of a home on top of them.
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2022, 09:20:48 AM »
I was aware of the crush test as the company where I took my ASME Code 9-6G welding tests also did concrete testing and some other construction material testing they did onsite. Home owners don't get that and have to rely on the reputation of the concrete company and the company doing the work.

I really haven't seen many contractors that do work for home owners like pads and driveways that don't add to much water to the mix. Its just easier for them to do the pour if the concrete is wetter. Also very few contractors ensure that the home owner keeps the pour wet for a number of days to ensure a slower cure. This is especially critical in hot weather. Both low slump, and a slow cure makes for much stronger concrete. with wet curing the most important. Wet curing is better than curing compounds. You can double the life of concrete with correct wet curing compared to no curing. ie doing nothing after its poured.   
I think curing compounds have become the easiest way out. Just spray the concrete with a compound, and charge the customer an extra 20% for the cost of the compound, and its a done deal.  No having to keep the pour covered with burlap and wet for at least 7 days.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2022, 09:22:11 AM »
Well I think the correct term is AAC , autoclaved aerated concrete. Has alot construction advantages and some disadvantages.  See this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete

Also, there's methods for DIYers to make their own AAC blocks using foaming agents.
Seems like an interesting alternative to wood and conventional concrete products.
.

I wonder what the cost difference is compared to conventional construction methods?
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline ironglow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2022, 10:07:39 AM »
Italians are good with Concrete and Brick & Mortar jobs. The construction company i was at used them a lot out east.
..For sure, just as most European countries from my experience while living there, can show us a thing or two, concerning concrete use.
   Of course, when almost every house, apartment, garage, or almost every structure is composed of concrete, they
    obviously have much more experience, not only in variety, but in years.

  ...And the Italians...well, the fact that it was Romans who first developed concrete, may have something to
   do with that!

   Back in the 1980s, I worked with the AO Smith (Harvestore) people.  Among other things, I spent much of my   
 time digging and pouring foundations for those 'Big Blue' silos.

  I would go to the job, lay out and dig the footer..then call the concrete producer to bring in his product.
  I had 2 particular firms I called most often, when within reasonable distance, simply because they produced a
  superior mix (IMO).
   There was one blender which I avoided calling, because his mix was substandard..even though I had a couple
   farmers in his neighborhood, still demanded his concrete.

   Happily, I was reinforced in my opinion of him, since his nickname among most locals who worked construction,
 was "Lumpy"...  :D ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2022, 02:38:29 PM »

   Back in the 1980s, I worked with the AO Smith (Harvestore) people.  Among other things, I spent much of my   
 time digging and pouring foundations for those 'Big Blue' silos.

 

Is that the AO Smith that makes water heaters?   A year ago I bought an AO Smith electric water heater. Just a few weeks ago my power went out along with a power surge. It was one of the smart water heaters that are supposed to save power. You know electronic controls. Well the power surge knocked out the electronic thermostat. Ordered a new one for $130, had it over nighted, and it wasn't easy to remove the cooked one and install the new one.  Everything is supposed to be built better, but it really isn't. I have lived in a home with an electric water heater since I was born and the only thing I have seen go bad on them is an element or they leak. Not that the AO Smith water heater is inferior. I paid extra for a 12 year warranty, because the longer warranty ones have a better anode system in them. Its just that the electronics that control them are delicate.   
 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Online Mule 11

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2022, 02:52:27 PM »

   Back in the 1980s, I worked with the AO Smith (Harvestore) people.  Among other things, I spent much of my   
 time digging and pouring foundations for those 'Big Blue' silos.

 

Is that the AO Smith that makes water heaters?   A year ago I bought an AO Smith electric water heater. Just a few weeks ago my power went out along with a power surge. It was one of the smart water heaters that are supposed to save power. You know electronic controls. Well the power surge knocked out the electronic thermostat. Ordered a new one for $130, had it over nighted, and it wasn't easy to remove the cooked one and install the new one.  Everything is supposed to be built better, but it really isn't. I have lived in a home with an electric water heater since I was born and the only thing I have seen go bad on them is an element or they leak. Not that the AO Smith water heater is inferior. I paid extra for a 12 year warranty, because the longer warranty ones have a better anode system in them. Its just that the electronics that control them are delicate.

I believe most things are intentionally built to fail. Hard to sell a new one if it actually lasts.

Offline DDZ

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2022, 01:11:37 AM »
Electronic thermostat? Well if it's some kind of component with circuit board and a chip associated with it then it's probably vulnerable to line surges. Surge protection or a line conditioner, even for the whole house at the service box, might be nice to have in this day and age.

.

I have thought about whole house surge protection, but not sure how well they stop surges. Especially for delicate electronic devices. My son has a instant use hot water heater, or a tankless heater, and he has whole house surge protection. When there is a power surge it knocks out a electronic component in his heater.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline ironglow

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Re: Finally doing it
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2022, 10:09:19 AM »

   Back in the 1980s, I worked with the AO Smith (Harvestore) people.  Among other things, I spent much of my   
 time digging and pouring foundations for those 'Big Blue' silos.

 

Is that the AO Smith that makes water heaters?   A year ago I bought an AO Smith electric water heater. Just a few weeks ago my power went out along with a power surge. It was one of the smart water heaters that are supposed to save power. You know electronic controls. Well the power surge knocked out the electronic thermostat. Ordered a new one for $130, had it over nighted, and it wasn't easy to remove the cooked one and install the new one.  Everything is supposed to be built better, but it really isn't. I have lived in a home with an electric water heater since I was born and the only thing I have seen go bad on them is an element or they leak. Not that the AO Smith water heater is inferior. I paid extra for a 12 year warranty, because the longer warranty ones have a better anode system in them. Its just that the electronics that control them are delicate.

  Yes, AO Smith also makes gas pumps...they seem to b8e specialists where glass glazed (enameled) surfaces on steel are required.
  All the steel sheets involved in the silos were glazed with glass.  The sheets were about 5X10 feet, and of course, curved to specs.
  The sheets ranged from about  1/2" to 1/8" thickness, depending upon whether b8ottom or top sheet.

   Glass is colored by additives, for instance..you want green glass..add copper, you want red...add gold, while in the
    case of blue, the choice would be cobalt.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)