American civil war....?

[ironglow]

  I have held off saying anything related to such a wild idea. Primarily because we can see the example before us with
  Russia and the Ukraine.
  While not exactly a civil war, Russia at the least, thinks the Ukraine should be happy to return to the old USSR fold..
  The message to us...do we want the US to go through such a season as they are experiencing now?

  After seeing so much discussion on the possibility.. I don't want to be involved in wild speculation.  So, I found a young scholar who did some research on the subject.  Although apparently bright in his own right..he being young, consulted some of the great thinker/analysts (Strauss & Howe, DH Fischer, Spengler, etc), to come up with his conclusions...along with supporting facts and data.
 
  I think the left anticipates just such a scenario in our future, opinion reinforced by the left's drive to take away our constitutional right to guns.  This video explains why the left has tried to weaken our military, and feminize boys..

  A half hour video that makes one well armed for discussion of such a possible event. Not just guesswork by amateurs such as myself or sundry others, but a well balanced study of professional historians, philosophers and
   futurists.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JDLrSRROC8

[Dee]

Not to argue, or criticize, but these "great thinkers" have no more of an idea than you or I. ITS ALL SPECULATION.

Nobody knows how this all plays out because it hasn't happened yet. Great thinkers are no more better informed on unknown future events than anybody else is.

We are in uncharted water with this whole mess and the slightest event, or an election, or a catastrophic event could send this country in a dozen different directions.

It's like folks that know almost nuthin about Texas telling Texans how to live in, and with this border crisis. They don't know what their talking about. Their just talking.

I quit listening to American prophecies by the news talking headed, politicians, sociological experts decades ago.

Wanna straighten this country out? Clean DC completely out, asnd start over from scratch.

AND OUTLAW LOBBYISTS COMPLETELY. 

[Lloyd Smale]

yup you know me. I dont buy into internet experts, conspiracy theorists, self proclaimed experts and people just looking for there 5 minutes of fame. As sad as this country is today i dont even personally believe theres enough conservatives that would be willing to stand up when the bullets start flying. Our military cant get enough volunteers today knowing that probably only one if 4 will ever see anything dangerous. Lots of cowboy hats but very few cowboys.

[Dee]

Actually less than 1 out of every 10 soldiers ever saw combat. Even during the height of Afghanistan, and Iraq.

yup you know me. I dont buy into internet experts, conspiracy theorists, self proclaimed experts and people just looking for there 5 minutes of fame. As sad as this country is today i dont even personally believe theres enough conservatives that would be willing to stand up when the bullets start flying. Our military cant get enough volunteers today knowing that probably only one if 4 will ever see anything dangerous. Lots of cowboy hats but very few cowboys.

[ironglow]

  The Authors cited were far from being "internet experts" or "conspiracy theorists", but genuine scholars, capable of holding their own in diplomatic circles and among a bevy of historian/futurists.

   All are very well educated and highly respected in their fields.  Obviously some are not internet tyros, since they died years ago.  However the prescience of their predictions are only emphasized by it !

  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-decline-of-the-west-vol-1-form-and-actuality_oswald-spengler/358818/item/12625222/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAwJWdBhCYARIsAJc4idDSt20wx1Ty7

    https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Civilizations-Carroll-Quigley/dp/0913966576/ref=asc_df_0913966576/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312126490544&hvpos=

    https://www.amazon.com/History-Next-Century-according-civilizational-ebook/dp/B09VYY2679

     https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Caesars-Amaury-Riencourt/dp/193848004X/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAwJWdBhCYARIsAJc4idA6Q8yT5KI5k33uH4TVe6UGrvhxiQmDr1IzR

    Tell me, Did you guys at least view the video before you criticized it?  If so, where did it differ from your thoughts?

  I posted the links, so you could scroll down to read what folks who have read those books have derived and
  encapsulated from each of those books.

   In any case how about before casting judgement, you at least view the video?

[Dee]

I never looked at a second of it.

Most all of Congress, and the upper echelon of the military are very well educated and highly respected in their fields.
Respected by other folks educated in the same colleges and universities, and military schools as themselves.

They write books, and folks buy'em. They give speeches, and folks pay'em. They give  their opinions and folks listen. But they don't know whats gonna happen concerning our fate in the future as a country.

They're the "Hal Lindsay's of politics". They are to the political future, what Lindsey is to apocalyptic Bible prophecy.

I just don't have the need to have a bunch of "educated suits" to point out "obvious problems", caused by people just like them.

[ironglow]

I never looked at a second of it.

Most all of Congress, and the upper echelon of the military are very well educated and highly respected in their fields.
Respected by other folks educated in the same colleges and universities, and military schools as themselves.

They write books, and folks buy'em. They give speeches, and folks pay'em. They give  their opinions and folks listen. But they don't know whats gonna happen concerning our fate in the future as a country.

They're the "Hal Lindsay's of politics". They are to the political future, what Lindsey is to apocalyptic Bible prophecy.

I just don't have the need to have a bunch of "educated suits" to point out "obvious problems", caused by people just like them.

  Are you then, casting off the value of  higher education?  You say you didn't view even one moment of the video.

  Considering the context, it is indeed difficult to understand how you can so lightly pass it off.

[Dee]

I never looked at a second of it.

Most all of Congress, and the upper echelon of the military are very well educated and highly respected in their fields.
Respected by other folks educated in the same colleges and universities, and military schools as themselves.

They write books, and folks buy'em. They give speeches, and folks pay'em. They give  their opinions and folks listen. But they don't know whats gonna happen concerning our fate in the future as a country.

They're the "Hal Lindsay's of politics". They are to the political future, what Lindsey is to apocalyptic Bible prophecy.

I just don't have the need to have a bunch of "educated suits" to point out "obvious problems", caused by people just like them.

  Are you then, casting off the value of  higher education?  You say you didn't view even one moment of the video.

  Considering the context, it is indeed difficult to understand how you can so lightly pass it off.

Hasn't it yet hit you how differently you and I see things? We're never gonna agree on this.

Example: I see Oliver North as a traitor to his country. He intentionally bypassed Congress, lied to, and deceived Americans, was caught, and convicted of a felony. Then, handily pardoned by another crook.

You on the other hand see him as a patriot, and go listen to him speak, and obviously value his opinions.

That's how different we are, and North is just one example.

[gene_225]

IG, you keep posting video links that I, for one, never watch. If it isn't written so I can study it at MY leasure till I understand what was said AND the ramifications it is valueless to me. Probably some others feel similarly.

[oldandslow]

I am one of the "some others". Like Dee said, some write books and some buy'um, some make speeches and some pay to listen. It's about making a buck. No one can accurately predict the future. If some one does it's only a lucky guess. It is like the gypsy fortune teller. If she could actually predict the future why doesn't she just win the lottery and quit looking in a crystal ball, felling your palm, or some other hocus-pocus for a few bucks. It is because no one, NO ONE, can see exactly how things are going to go except on a very broad scale. Example: the USA is going to hell in a handcar which should be obvious to anyone with a couple of working brain cells. Just how quickly and what events that will kick off is pure speculation.

[Land_Owner]

A blind hog will find an acorn every now and again.

Conjecture is like that...

[ironglow]

  If you don't study, you don't learn, it's elementary..

[ironglow]

IG, you keep posting video links that I, for one, never watch. If it isn't written so I can study it at MY leasure till I understand what was said AND the ramifications it is valueless to me. Probably some others feel similarly.

  If I don't post links to things I say, somebody is sure to come along asking for some kind of reinforcing evidence.

  I don't figure everyone to read or watch all the things offered, but if interested in any of them, why not save them and read/watch at leisure?

  It seems that it would be difficult to discuss any current event, without reasonable study beforehand.

[Lloyd Smale]

  Are you then, casting off the value of  higher education?  You say you didn't view even one moment of the video.

  Considering the context, it is indeed difficult to understand how you can so lightly pass it off.

I will cast off the value of most higher educations today. Maybe at one time there was more learning of things that actually made a difference but theres little of that today. For the most part there just indoctrination centers that hand out diplomas to anyone that will give them money or can play football or basketball. I believe henry ford dropped out of school in 8th grade. Did it make him stupid? Maybe he would have done better with a degree in liberal arts or phy ed.

  When i was a lineman i worked with mechanical engineers with electrical degrees that were right out of college that didnt know there ass from there face. They learned the job just like we did. ON the job. Differnce was if they screwed up they at worse got chewed out. Most just tried again the next day. When we screwed up we could get easily killed so which job takes the most intelligence?

 Lets take it to the military now. If you walked into a fire fight against a superior force would you rather be lead by that second lieutenant with that higher education you value so much or by that grizzly master sergeant that has been there and done that. Good chance that lieutenant will NEVER be the soldier that sergeant is. In most cases the real world is a better education then anything your going to get in school.

Now if your talking a doctor i might back off a bit. But most people come out with a piece of paper that isnt worth wiping your but with. My own mother had a masters degree and so did my sister. both taught school and made about half what i made. Ya i worked harder and longer hours but find one of those liberal college kids that are willing to go out and actually do work like that. Its ok though. We need people sitting in offices with docker pants doing our pay role.

Our comapany now requires any apprentice that starts his apprenticeship to have at least a 2 year degree. Thing is they dont care what that degree is in. I had a chance to talk to our company president. He was my boss when i first started . I asked him if something changed that made the job more technical and made that nessisary. Heres what he told me.

They did that because they had to many people hired that lasted a month and quit or showed up late or dumped work. They figured that if someone would sit through the bs of college and those idiot professors long enough to get a degree would be more reliable workers. I asked him why someone with a degree would want to be an apprentice lineman. He laughed and said an apprentice starts at 43 bucks an hour and gets a raise every year and in 4 years when they become a journeyman they make 52 bucks an  hour. He said it would take an engineer out of college starting in this company at least 10 years to get to that level and he said by then 3/4s of them a pushed out because they dont have leadership qualities that are needed at the higher levels. Being a college grad means NOTHING. ITs what you do when you get out that matters. Intellegent people are intellegent people. There not made intellegent in college. I can find a hole bunch of stupid sobs that have a college degree.

[Land_Owner]

The script has been written, the performers coached, the lights are set, the teleprompters and cameras are in position, the live audience is seated, and the program is about to start.  Advertisers are eagerly awaiting their cut of the gate and legacy royalties.  It has been a long time in coming.  The Producers already know the cost and profits of Chaos.

************************************************************

Working with the Mind is as important as with the Body.  No one, institutional, corporate, educational, governmental, or otherwise, "teaches" how to do a job.  Everything is learned On The Job.  Education teaches how to use the mind.  Some sticks.  Some doesn't.

Pain and suffering are powerful teachers, not that someone should lose life or limb, that would be a Bridge Too Far.  Work a shovel without gloves, get a blister.  Go too fast, go too hard, go too long, and learn the curves of dehydration, exhaustion, judgement error, co-worker ostracism, and more, too many more.

Planning makes sense.  Conservation of Energy makes sense.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Other "Universal Constants" [Murphy] come to mind that each of us has to learn for ourselves.  Two plus two equal four, subtraction, multiplication, long division, reading, writing, wiring, driving, reloading, shooting, casting, UNDERSTANDING WOMEN ==> NONE OF IT is hard wired.

These cannot be plugged into the "Matrix Receptacle" in the base of the neck and downloaded from some canned computer program.  Who wrote those extensive computer programs in the first place?  Certainly, there was a LOT of Trial and Error in those learning curves.

We have all sat around a campfire and wondered aloud about the dumb things we did and why we're still alive to talk about them.  Some folks don't survive the learning curve.  Some folks are fortunate by circumstance.  Every one of us has scars to prove our existence and our experience.  Some of the BEST experience is the result of BAD experience.

Your footfalls, mine, everyone's in this life are DIFFERENT.  Have a conversation with the man looking back at you in the mirror.  Get straight with "That Guy" and let everyone else come to Jesus in their own way.  A Doctor can bury his mistakes, an Architect can only advise you to Plant Vines.

[Mule 11]

A blind hog will find an acorn every now and again.

Conjecture is like that...

I give conjecture the word of the day award. Some are definitely well versed.

[ironglow]

The script has been written, the performers coached, the lights are set, the teleprompters and cameras are in position, the live audience is seated, and the program is about to start.  Advertisers are eagerly awaiting their cut of the gate and legacy royalties.  It has been a long time in coming.  The Producers already know the cost and profits of Chaos.

************************************************************

Working with the Mind is as important as with the Body.  No one, institutional, corporate, educational, governmental, or otherwise, "teaches" how to do a job.  Everything is learned On The Job.  Education teaches how to use the mind.  Some sticks.  Some doesn't.

Pain and suffering are powerful teachers, not that someone should lose life or limb, that would be a Bridge Too Far.  Work a shovel without gloves, get a blister.  Go too fast, go too hard, go too long, and learn the curves of dehydration, exhaustion, judgement error, co-worker ostracism, and more, too many more.

Planning makes sense.  Conservation of Energy makes sense.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Other "Universal Constants" [Murphy] come to mind that each of us has to learn for ourselves.  Two plus two equal four, subtraction, multiplication, long division, reading, writing, wiring, driving, reloading, shooting, casting, UNDERSTANDING WOMEN ==> NONE OF IT is hard wired.

These cannot be plugged into the "Matrix Receptacle" in the base of the neck and downloaded from some canned computer program.  Who wrote those extensive computer programs in the first place?  Certainly, there was a LOT of Trial and Error in those learning curves.

We have all sat around a campfire and wondered aloud about the dumb things we did and why we're still alive to talk about them.  Some folks don't survive the learning curve.  Some folks are fortunate by circumstance.  Every one of us has scars to prove our existence and our experience.  Some of the BEST experience is the result of BAD experience.

Your footfalls, mine, everyone's in this life are DIFFERENT.  Have a conversation with the man looking back at you in the mirror.  Get straight with "That Guy" and let everyone else come to Jesus in their own way.  A Doctor can bury his mistakes, an Architect can only advise you to Plant Vines.

   With which I totally agree .  I spoke about "study", but study doesn't necessarily include only
 books, videos etc.  Most  of our collection of- knowledge takes place outside any kind of classroom.

  Sometimes in fact, formal learning can get in the way of the knowledge gathering process.  That is one reason why i am a fan of a statement by Mark Twain, which says..  " Never let  schooling interfere with your education"

[Dee]

  If you don't study, you don't learn, it's elementary..

Ironglow, I'd wager that I've got far more formal education than you. My major was "Criminal Justice". But after that, I took a 21year "crash course on life". That class showed me what folks were capable of doing to each other  and to themselves.

I learned that a formal education involved retention,  but did not equal intelligence. Many times, quite the opposite.

Take our well educated Congress. We are thanks to them, 31 trillion dollars in debt.

Take our well educated West Point educated military learders. We haven't won a war since 1945.

Take your latest idle Tulsi Gabbard. She quit the democratic party, but has not once apologized, or renounced, her past betrayal of the American citizens through her democratic voting habits,  or her marxist presidential endorsements. Yet, folks like you don't hold people like her accountable.
She quit the party, and no further inquiries were made. It's like a heroin addict quits buying from a certain dealer. It doesn't mean they quit heroin.

GOD REQUIRES REPENTENCE, but ironglow obviously doesn't.

Yes, one must study, and pay attention, in order to learn. Which you don't seem to do, concerning the latter of the 3.

LIKE I SAID, WE WILL NEVER AGREE. 

[TrumpWon]

I laugh every time I hear about a civil war.
Here’s how it’s worked and worked well for 246 years. If you don’t like something and want to change it or want to introduce something new you gather enough like minded people and elect like minded officials or vote for a ballot issue. You win some and lose some.
If that doesn’t work and you feel the need to start an armed rebellion, good luck. You’re now an unconstitutional insurrectionist and will be deservedly stomped.
We’re still the greatest country in the world.

[orerancher]

I laugh every time I hear about a civil war.
Here’s how it’s worked and worked well for 246 years. If you don’t like something and want to change it or want to introduce something new you gather enough like minded people and elect like minded officials or vote for a ballot issue. You win some and lose some.
If that doesn’t work and you feel the need to start an armed rebellion, good luck. You’re now an unconstitutional insurrectionist and will be deservedly stomped.
We’re still the greatest country in the world.

Who Exactly is gonna do this "Stomping "?

[Mule 11]

I laugh every time I hear about a civil war.
Here’s how it’s worked and worked well for 246 years. If you don’t like something and want to change it or want to introduce something new you gather enough like minded people and elect like minded officials or vote for a ballot issue. You win some and lose some.
If that doesn’t work and you feel the need to start an armed rebellion, good luck. You’re now an unconstitutional insurrectionist and will be deservedly stomped.
We’re still the greatest country in the world.

Exactly what the British and every totilatarian govt has thought.

Also, you are a true troll...

[phalanx]

yup you know me. I dont buy into internet experts, conspiracy theorists, self proclaimed experts and people just looking for there 5 minutes of fame. As sad as this country is today i dont even personally believe theres enough conservatives that would be willing to stand up when the bullets start flying. Our military cant get enough volunteers today knowing that probably only one if 4 will ever see anything dangerous. Lots of cowboy hats but very few cowboys.

Lots of cowboy hats but very few cowboys. Sounds like a modern honkie tonk these days. They go in there saying they are a bull rider, and the lady’s swoon over that. A bull sh*ter is what they really are.

[ironglow]

  Taking a break from this thread, I would rather not participate in any calumny.

[TrumpWon]

Who Exactly is gonna do this "Stomping "?

Since I see those talking insurrection as clowns I think the “Keystone Cops”  would be the appropriate choice

[Dee]

  Taking a break from this thread, I would rather not participate in any calumny.

Wouldn't your absence have been a more effective "break"? I haven't noticed any "calumny". Just a discussion with vastly differing opinions.

[Mule 11]

Who Exactly is gonna do this "Stomping "?

Since I see those talking insurrection as clowns I think the “Keystone Cops”  would be the appropriate choice

Pretty sure you’re the only one using the term insurrection. Leftist troll. I believe the appropriate choice for those to be Freddy Mercury or elton Jane

[magooch]

You know, all of us have lived through much more vexing and even scarier times than all of what we've seen in the past few years.  Some of us actually participated in some of the insanity the world endures, but that's not to say that this time around is a walk in the park.  Difference of philosophy is always going to be something to be dealt with and hopefully we somehow stumble through it all.  I however never thought that I would live to see a dumber President than LBJ, a Congress so corrupt that it is hard to believe we are not living in a demented fiction novel and a federal justice system that is wrong and deliberately un-Constitutional on nearly every issue.  But no worries; one thing I'm finding out is that every time I think things can't get worse--it does.

[Dee]

You know, all of us have lived through much more vexing and even scarier times than all of what we've seen in the past few years.  Some of us actually participated in some of the insanity the world endures, but that's not to say that this time around is a walk in the park.  Difference of philosophy is always going to be something to be dealt with and hopefully we somehow stumble through it all.  I however never thought that I would live to see a dumber President than LBJ, a Congress so corrupt that it is hard to believe we are not living in a demented fiction novel and a federal justice system that is wrong and deliberately un-Constitutional on nearly every issue.  But no worries; one thing I'm finding out is that every time I think things can't get worse--it does.

100%, and I don't need somebody with a PhD to explain it to me.

[nw_hunter]

I keep hearing over and over again on MSM, and I include Fox (FAUX) news among them, that China and Russia are our biggest threat. I say BS. The biggest threat we face in America is American Politicians. BOTH Republicans and Democrats. It's crystal clear they do not have the best interest of their constituents at heart. They vote to give foreign nations BILLIONS, while we suffer here at home. Open borders here, while they worry about borders on foreign soil.

I see so many voters on websites like this, blaming Democrats for everything bad that happens, while giving these sorry Republicans a free pass. Time for conservative voters to take a long hard look at this cabal of politicians that are suppose to be for our Republic. Most are Traitors and need to go. On Thursday, the omnibus bill passed through the Senate with a 68-29 vote. The 68 Senators who voted in favor of passing the bill included 18 Republicans. 18 Bald face, lying traitors.

[Dee]

I keep hearing over and over again on MSM, and I include Fox (FAUX) news among them, that China and Russia are our biggest threat. I say BS. The biggest threat we face in America is American Politicians. BOTH Republicans and Democrats. It's crystal clear they do not have the best interest of their constituents at heart. They vote to give foreign nations BILLIONS, while we suffer here at home. Open borders here, while they worry about borders on foreign soil.

I see so many voters on websites like this, blaming Democrats for everything bad that happens, while giving these sorry Republicans a free pass. Time for conservative voters to take a long hard look at this cabal of politicians that are suppose to be for our Republic. Most are Traitors and need to go. On Thursday, the omnibus bill passed through the Senate with a 68-29 vote. The 68 Senators who voted in favor of passing the bill included 18 Republicans. 18 Bald face, lying traitors.

1,000% THIS!

Talking heads bore me to sleep. What is going on is obvious to anyone payin attention. I see more of a continuing collapse of infrastructure, and state and local governments being left to fend for themselves, like is going on in Texas, Arizona, and Florida.

Everything that Texas is trying to do to protect its citizens from border jumpers is being undone by the federal government.
The federal government is pushing border states to band together, for self preservation.