what a pain in the !!!

[Lloyd Smale]

wife went to the store in this crap to get some milk for tomorrow. I told her not to bother but she had too. Then she didnt even have the sense to put the truck in 4x4 and coming home hit a drift on the road and got so stuck the front wheels were off the road. I took the jeep over to pull her out and all i had was a short sling. so i hook it up and i jerking and jerking and I mean JERKING. Wouldnt budge. Get out and go over she had the parking break on. Im now shaking my head. So she turns it off i get back in the jeep and JERK it over and over again and it wont budge. I walk back to the truck and the parking brakes on. Finally i anchored the back of the jeep to a tree and winched her out. Come to find out in there wisdom ram put sensors on the back, not the collision sensors, but a  back up sensor that locks the break if you  back to close to something slow. So I had the jeep close enough to her it was setting it off. Find out theres no way to disable it. It also locks the truck up if you open the door to look back to back up. Who needs all this safety crap that jacks the price of a truck up. I remember my first truck a 64 chev that the only thing between you and the gas tank was the seat back.

[phalanx]

All the buzzers, whistles, warnings and bells aren’t needed either. I’m also able to read my gauges, i can add.
Our 1992 Lincoln town car sounds like a circus at times. So i cant imagine what they are doing nowadays.
Maybe i don't want to know.

[sbilson]

I'm with you Lloyd! Detroit engineers have WAY overdone their profession. My '68 Ford F100 has power nothing and as you said, the only thing between me and the gas tank is the back of the seat. I love that old truck.

[Mule 11]

Well. She brought the milk home...

[Lloyd Smale]

Well. She brought the milk home...

that she did. Had to bite my tounge though. Spend near 50k truck with 4x4 and she heads out in a blizzard and doesnt even have the presence of mind to put it in 4x4! I asked her if she used the electric real axle locker. She said "whats that!!!" Shes been driving the truck for nearly 3 years and didnt even notice the switch. She sure does know where all the usb ports are and how to connect the bluetooth. If they had a 4x4 or locker app on her phone she be tapping on it every day!!

[GTS225]

Spend near 50k truck with 4x4 and she heads out in a blizzard and doesnt even have the presence of mind to put it in 4x4! I asked her if she used the electric real axle locker. She said "whats that!!!" Shes been driving the truck for nearly 3 years and didnt even notice the switch. She sure does know where all the usb ports are and how to connect the bluetooth. If they had a 4x4 or locker app on her phone she be tapping on it every day!!

See.....this is why the mfgr's are building them with all those "features" you're harping about.  Today's drivers aren't like we were when they still taught driver's ed in high school.  Back then, we actually paid attention on how to operate a vehicle.  Nowadays, as long as it starts and goes, drivers don't pay a lot of attention to thier autos or trucks.  (Or thier driving habits.)

Just another grumpy, old, opinionated S.O.B......Roger

[Lloyd Smale]

yup they can about make there cell phone cook supper and know every aspect of the info center but thats where there knowledge ends. They love all those electronic baby sitters. I remember when you stepped up to a LUXURY truck it had an automatic and carpeting. Still remember dad buying a new chev silverado off the lot in 73 and taking it home and ripping the carpet out of it. He said it had no place in a truck and would do nothing but cause rust. Hed paint the floor pans when they got scuffed up and just through a set of rubber floor mats in them. It also had an auto and he hated it and insisted you needed to manually shift it and it took over a year for him to let it do its thing. First 4 chev trucks i bought had rubber not carpet. Didnt have an automatic until 2003. yup they put all those safety features in to prevent wrecks and they put some 20 inch info screen that those idiots cant leave alone and that along with cell phones probabaly cause more wrecks then those idiot features stop. My wife drives me nuts when she drives with that too. She is constanly pushing buttons on that screen and taking her eyes off the road when she does it. Want safety? Take all that crap out and not a single usb port to charge a phone. I wouldnt even care if they didnt lower the price because they didnt have to put them in. All i need is an fm radio and probably dont change channels on mine more the 3 or 4 times a year.

[oldandslow]

I had my Texas chauffer's license and drove a school bus my senior year as did four other students. No driver's ed in those days. When driver's ed showed up it was for city kids and a way to get a driver's licence a year earlier than kids that didn't take it.

[Dee]

If the door isn't shut good on my 18 Ram it won't move.

[oldandslow]

Moral of this thread: Don't drive a Dodge. 

[neckisred]

Trucks have came a long ways and I sure appreciate SOME of the technology and ALL the creature comforts. That said, make mine a 3/4 ton 4x4 standard cab with an 8ft bed. Auto, rubber mats, manual windows and a floor shift 4wd lever...............

[ironglow]

  It was right here, just a couple years ago, when I spoke of longing for a vehicle as simple as the old M38 jeep I drove
   in the Army. 
  The only concessions I wantd were a modern engine and seat belts with air bags.

  It sometimes looks like the manufacturers are in bed with the WEF...trying to turn us into economic slaves to their system.

  Now days in the car/truck commercials, they never even talk price.... only lease rates..

[Lloyd Smale]

dont need to pay for air bags either. If you want them make it an option. As it is i can hop in my full sized full frame pickup and have to have a government mandated air bag and seat belt and i can park it hop on my harley with a tee shirt and shorts and barefooted if i want. No leathers no helmet no nothing. If I want leathers and a hellmet im free to buy them. Just doesnt make sense that its not up to me in my truck too.

  It was right here, just a couple years ago, when I spoke of longing for a vehicle as simple as the old M38 jeep I drove
   in the Army. 
  The only concessions I wantd were a modern engine and seat belts with air bags.

  It sometimes looks like the manufacturers are in bed with the WEF...trying to turn us into economic slaves to their system.

  Now days in the car/truck commercials, they never even talk price.... only lease rates..

[GTS225]

That said, make mine a 3/4 ton 4x4 standard cab with an 8ft bed. Auto, rubber mats, manual windows and a floor shift 4wd lever...............

Not pickin' on you, specifically, but why 4X4? 
I'm 65, and have never had a 4 wheel drive as a daily driver in my life, and I'm in Iowa.  Had an old '80 Ford pickup with a plow that got used a few times during the winter, but that's it.  It went away due to lack of use, and I wasn't willing to let it nickel-and-dime me to death. I'll go for the extended cab, but NOT the full 4-door cab, thank you. (I like the additional "secure" space, myself.)

I figure I have some idea of how to drive, even in the winter, unlike all those soccer moms with all-wheel-drive minivans that think they can drive any way they want, then find out ice doesn't give a rat's backside, and put them in the ditch.

Roger

[Mule 11]

That said, make mine a 3/4 ton 4x4 standard cab with an 8ft bed. Auto, rubber mats, manual windows and a floor shift 4wd lever...............

Not pickin' on you, specifically, but why 4X4? 
Roger

Why not? IMO. Better to have it and not Need it.

I rarely use my 4 wheel drive and even less 4 wheel low. Butt, I like it and it comes in handily for me.

[Dee]

I use my four-wheel drive Ranch truck and four wheel drive several times a week. If I didn't have four wheel drive I would be stuck most of the time in deep sand. And yes I'm on the roads, but Ranch roads aren't for everybody.

[GTS225]

Why not? IMO. Better to have it and not Need it.
I rarely use my 4 wheel drive and even less 4 wheel low. Butt, I like it and it comes in handily for me.

OK.....your choice.  I just don't feel the need for all the extra parts underneath, that can break anytime they feel like it.  As I said earlier.....I know how to drive on winter roads, and better, know enough NOT to drive if the conditions warrant it.

Roger

[Lloyd Smale]

well if you lived up here you sing a different tune. I dont remember when the last time was that i ever saw a 2x4 truck on a lot around here other then fleet trucks. Even if we didnt get over 300 inches of snow theres not a summer or fall that goes by that i dont NEED 4x4 to do what im doing. Now if i never went off road, didnt hunt or fish or just like going in the woods i too could get by with a 4x2 IN THE SUMMER. That snow drift she hit was a good 3 feet deap and 40 feet long. Now if she would have been in 4x4 and hit it she would have made it. I went through it in my wrangler (not following her tracks) to show her (which didnt get me points) But 2x4 for the last 4 days and you wouldnt be leaving your house. Only 2x4 truck that would ever be in my garage is maybe a short box standard cab built into a performance truck that i was NEVER going to drive past October. Or maybe an el camino Iowa doesnt know what winter is. You get snow and 2 days later its gone. Come to northern michigan, nothern wisconson, northern Minesota where the roads are snow and ice covered from mid-December to late march. Might be a dozen days in there that have bare roads when it warms to 30 and there's enough salt on the road. Side roads they dont salt? You wont see blacktop till spring.  Its the people that have the need to drive 40 because there inexperienced that cause 80 precent of the wrecks. There like the idiot 80 year old campers in the summer driving a f250 diesel 45 mph down the highway pulling there camper and can barley see over the steering wheel with traffic backed up for a mile behind them. Dee and mule probably dont even see the snow you do but are avid outdoors man thats passion for the outdoors doesnt end where the pavement ends.

That said, make mine a 3/4 ton 4x4 standard cab with an 8ft bed. Auto, rubber mats, manual windows and a floor shift 4wd lever...............

Not pickin' on you, specifically, but why 4X4? 
I'm 65, and have never had a 4 wheel drive as a daily driver in my life, and I'm in Iowa.  Had an old '80 Ford pickup with a plow that got used a few times during the winter, but that's it.  It went away due to lack of use, and I wasn't willing to let it nickel-and-dime me to death. I'll go for the extended cab, but NOT the full 4-door cab, thank you. (I like the additional "secure" space, myself.)

I figure I have some idea of how to drive, even in the winter, unlike all those soccer moms with all-wheel-drive minivans that think they can drive any way they want, then find out ice doesn't give a rat's backside, and put them in the ditch.

Roger

[Lloyd Smale]

ive owned 4x4 trucks and jeeps since the early 70s. I can count the problems i had caused by the 4x4 system that wouldnt have happened in a 2x4 on one hand. All but one minor. Even the one major one wasnt that bad. IT was that stupid chain transfer case chev used in the 70s on there full time 4x4s. I could have replaced the chain and gears for 75 bucks if i did the labor myself but just went to the junk yard and found a transfer case from a wrecked stick shift truck that used the older geared case and had it in and running in 2 hours. Junk dealer even through in the locking Hubs for free. I think it cost me a 100 bucks at the time. A 100 bucks wasnt chump change back then. About what it would have cost you to buy new tires or for a brake job. Many 4x4 trucks running around here with over 200k on them that havent had a single issue with 4x4. My buddy has my old 2006 chev 1/2 ton. It has 310k on it right now and is a rusted hulk he uses for plowing. IT became a dedicated plow truck at 230k so 80k of PLOWING!! Which is about the most punishing thing you can do to a 1/2 ton truck. Think looks like crap but the motors never been touched and it still doesnt burn oil and the only thing done on the drivetrain has been universals. Front and rear ends and trasfer cases have never been apart. Then step up to a diesel 3/4 ton like neck is red suggested and to break it youd have to be trying. One last thing. My car dealer buddy and i were talking a few years back on why theres no 2x4s up here anymore and what he said was if you bought a 4x4 and it cost you 5k more youd gain that 5k back in resale or trade in 3 years. He said that of about all vehicles purchased 2x4 trucks are the worse at resale time for depreciation. He said there dealership wont even take one on trade because they have to end up sending it to auction to get rid of it. If all you need is a 2x4 truck why not save even more money and just buy a trailer for your car.

Why not? IMO. Better to have it and not Need it.
I rarely use my 4 wheel drive and even less 4 wheel low. Butt, I like it and it comes in handily for me.

OK.....your choice.  I just don't feel the need for all the extra parts underneath, that can break anytime they feel like it.  As I said earlier.....I know how to drive on winter roads, and better, know enough NOT to drive if the conditions warrant it.

Roger

[neckisred]

well if you lived up here you sing a different tune. I dont remember when the last time was that i ever saw a 2x4 truck on a lot around here other then fleet trucks. Even if we didnt get over 300 inches of snow theres not a summer or fall that goes by that i dont NEED 4x4 to do what im doing. Now if i never went off road, didnt hunt or fish or just like going in the woods i too could get by with a 4x2 IN THE SUMMER. That snow drift she hit was a good 3 feet deap and 40 feet long. Now if she would have been in 4x4 and hit it she would have made it. I went through it in my wrangler (not following her tracks) to show her (which didnt get me points) But 2x4 for the last 4 days and you wouldnt be leaving your house. Only 2x4 truck that would ever be in my garage is maybe a short box standard cab built into a performance truck that i was NEVER going to drive past October. Or maybe an el camino Iowa doesnt know what winter is. You get snow and 2 days later its gone. Come to northern michigan, nothern wisconson, northern Minesota where the roads are snow and ice covered from mid-December to late march. Might be a dozen days in there that have bare roads when it warms to 30 and there's enough salt on the road. Side roads they dont salt? You wont see blacktop till spring.  Its the people that have the need to drive 40 because there inexperienced that cause 80 precent of the wrecks. There like the idiot 80 year old campers in the summer driving a f250 diesel 45 mph down the highway pulling there camper and can barley see over the steering wheel with traffic backed up for a mile behind them. Dee and mule probably dont even see the snow you do but are avid outdoors man thats passion for the outdoors doesnt end where the pavement ends.

That said, make mine a 3/4 ton 4x4 standard cab with an 8ft bed. Auto, rubber mats, manual windows and a floor shift 4wd lever...............

Not pickin' on you, specifically, but why 4X4? 
I'm 65, and have never had a 4 wheel drive as a daily driver in my life, and I'm in Iowa.  Had an old '80 Ford pickup with a plow that got used a few times during the winter, but that's it.  It went away due to lack of use, and I wasn't willing to let it nickel-and-dime me to death. I'll go for the extended cab, but NOT the full 4-door cab, thank you. (I like the additional "secure" space, myself.)

I figure I have some idea of how to drive, even in the winter, unlike all those soccer moms with all-wheel-drive minivans that think they can drive any way they want, then find out ice doesn't give a rat's backside, and put them in the ditch.

Roger

Silly Lloyd. You obviously have never been to Iowa. The 2wd trucks there have super powers and their owners have superior driving skills......................

[GTS225]

well if you lived up here you sing a different tune.

I might, but I don't know where "up here" is.

Iowa doesnt know what winter is. You get snow and 2 days later its gone.

Now, you wouldn't be exaggerating a little there, would you?  Have snow right now that's been there for a week. (Admittedly, it's only about 6 inches.)

Come to northern michigan, nothern wisconson, northern Minesota where the roads are snow and ice covered from mid-December to late march.

AH-HA!  Now I know where "up here" is.  Yes, I'll concede that the lake effect snowfalls are a cast-iron B***ch, and your snowfalls are measured in feet.

Now, I'll also concede that "need" for a 4X4 system is regional, use, and driving ability based, and as such, I don't need it for a daily driver. I tow a 5th wheel camper, and drive locally, for the most part.  You and yours, on the other hand, do have need of it, and you've explained it well.  (You're starting to get emotional about it, BTW.)

That being said, I do have a project YJ in the back yard that I'm going to have to tear out the t-case and trans to get the clutch swapped out. Already had to swap out the rear axle because the PO let it go far enough that I found the carrier bearing rollers laying in the bottom of the diff housing.
Just a little playtoy, though.  4-banger and 5-gear.  Rescued it from a farmyard for $400 so I can teach the grandkids how to drive a manual trans.  Horribly neglected, but reasonable solid otherwise.  Not so sure it was that good of a deal, now.

Cheers.....Roger

[Lloyd Smale]

I live in the UP of michigan with lake superior about 200 yards from my back door. But that said if i lived in florida or texas i would but a truck that wasnt a 4x4 unless like i said i was building one to be fast and even if that was my intent i still probably do it on a 4x4. I just cant think up a single reason to own a 2 wheel drive truck for a daily driver. Maybe if i lived in a city and could never leave it but then i probably wouldnt even own a truck and probably would have shot myself in the head by now anyway. But even, GOD FORBID, i lived in the city and  theres woods within a 100 miles it will be a 4x4. dad bought his first 4x4 new in 65. A chev long box 1/2 ton. He drove chev or dodge 4x4s since. When i reenlisted i took the bonus and bought a brand new 77 chev step side 4x4 it was a black beauty. Loved that truck. Ive bought a new chev 4x4 every 3-4 years (except a 2006 i kept for 7 years)  up to 2020 when i went to the dark side and bought this ram. Ive owned mopar cars but never a truck till now. It will be a tough decision the day i trade this one whether its another ram or a chev. By the way ive blown snow 4 days in a row and two of those days i had to do it twice and i thought we were finally going to get a break this morning but i just looked outside and its coming down again. Theres a good 3 feet on the flat right now and winter is just starting. January and February are the real snow months. We average in the mid 300 inches every year but there's nearby county's that get double that.

[oldandslow]

There is really no need for a 4X4 anything in my immediate area. That said I have owned one of some kind since the mid '60's because I can drive less than 30 miles and be in sand country where one is pretty handy. Less than 100 will put me in one mountain range and 160 another where they are useful. My first was a Scout with the half a V-8 engine and it would go just about anywhere as long as you weren't in a rush. I went some places in the more distant mountains that I kind of wished I hadn't making my way back out. No power any thing plus the sorriest brakes ever installed on a vehicle. In the mountains I locked the front hubs and shifted into low range to come down steep places as the brakes weren't up to the task by themselves. Going up a mountain on the highway was embarrassing as it would only do about 25 mph on the steeper climbs. I would find a pull over spot and let the stacked up traffic get by only to have to do it again and maybe another time before cresting the climb depending on traffic. I replaced it with a GMC with a 400 cid engine and power everything. No more need to stop except for gas. At least it had two tanks so I could get some distance between fill ups. Went from it into a Duramax and the current one is a Jeep Wrangler which gets less milage than the Duramax. Fuel costs are probably about even when you factor in the added cost of diesel compared to gasoline. When I get something that does the job I want I keep it for years.

[Lloyd Smale]

scouts were cool. Problem with them was that everything up here rusted. Scouts rusted twice as fast as anything else.
 Even when motors only went 70k not many scout bodys up here outlived the motors. Like to have one though. I think there much cooler then the old broncos were.

There is really no need for a 4X4 anything in my immediate area. That said I have owned one of some kind since the mid '60's because I can drive less than 30 miles and be in sand country where one is pretty handy. Less than 100 will put me in one mountain range and 160 another where they are useful. My first was a Scout with the half a V-8 engine and it would go just about anywhere as long as you weren't in a rush. I went some places in the more distant mountains that I kind of wished I hadn't making my way back out. No power any thing plus the sorriest brakes ever installed on a vehicle. In the mountains I locked the front hubs and shifted into low range to come down steep places as the brakes weren't up to the task by themselves. Going up a mountain on the highway was embarrassing as it would only do about 25 mph on the steeper climbs. I would find a pull over spot and let the stacked up traffic get by only to have to do it again and maybe another time before cresting the climb depending on traffic. I replaced it with a GMC with a 400 cid engine and power everything. No more need to stop except for gas. At least it had two tanks so I could get some distance between fill ups. Went from it into a Duramax and the current one is a Jeep Wrangler which gets less milage than the Duramax. Fuel costs are probably about even when you factor in the added cost of diesel compared to gasoline. When I get something that does the job I want I keep it for years.