Reloading 223/5.56 Single stage or progressive?

[Steve E]

I reload my accuracy stuff (.223) on a single stage and if I am planning on going out for a day of rocks, sticks and blasting at my Range I use rounds (.223)  loaded on the Progressive press.
I can tell a difference in the ammo of the two on paper targets down range. Do you guys do it differently.
I load my pistol ammo on my progressive and most rifle on the single stage.


Steve............

[O-mega]

I don't have a true progressive, I reload on a Lee Classic Turret Press, but, I use it as a single stage for all my ammo now.  When I used to use the indexing rod, I only did my pistol ammo, anything I wanted accurate, including plinking ammo, I loaded single stage. Granted, the max I currently do per session is usually 100-200 rounds for pistol and plinking, and 40 or so for hunting ammo.

[Dee]

I've been loadin on the same ole "Rock Chucker" for years. I do everything in mass, one stage at a time. It's therapy. 

[Ranger99]

Don't have a progressive myself
Any "blasting " ammo is bulk and
I load hunting ammo for accuracy
for each firearm

[Lloyd Smale]

I load thousands of 556 every year and if i had to do it on a single stage press i sure as heck wouldnt own an ar15. Now bottle necks are a bit differnent though. It takes steps. First step is i lube about 300 brass by putting them in a box and putting a dab of lanolin on my hands and working it into the brass. I small base size so you dont want to use cheap or spray lubes. Its either anhydrous lanolin or something based on it like Lee or rcbs lube. Then i size and deprime at one station and have my dillion trimmer at the second. Once there sized and deprimed if i havent loaded them before i have to swage primer pockets. I have a dillon swagger. Then they go in the brass cleaner for about 6 hours. Come back the next day and set the press up with a powder measure and bullet seating die. Then i finish loading them.

 Only way to really load them fully progressive is with a 1050. On them you have a  swadger and enough stations to set up a trimmer too. You just have to clean the lube off in the tumbler when your done. If i had to go back to single stage loading for ars and pistols id find a new hobby. It would take me  two weeks to load enough for one day at the range and i would surely never get ahead. I do have two single stage presses and do use them for ammo for bolt guns to hunt with and load development. But ive loaded 308s on my progressives and compared them to what ive made on my two rock chuckers and there is no difference in accuracy i can see. But keep in mind if you do it progressively you about have to use ball powders.

I havent had just a single stage press since the early 80s and even then i had my first press which was a lyman turret. If your accuracy is suffering from loading progressively it can only be caused by two things. First is your powder charge. You need a measure that is accurate like a dillon or hornady. Like i said both of them are great with ball but suck with stick powders. Second is bullet seating. when your pounding out rounds you sometimes get lazy with how a bullet starts into the neck. I dont pay attention to it myself when im loading ball bullets but if there soft points that i need to shoot moa i slow down and smell the roses. I even replace the bullet seating die with my reading bench rest seating die. Other then those two things there nothing you will do on a single stage that will make it out shoot ammo on a progressive unless your a bench rest shooter and measure groups by .0001. Every bit of factory ammo you ever bought was loaded on a progressive machine. Bottom line is if you dont have a progressive you either dont shoot much or have alot of extra money to throw away on factory ammo.

[Steve E]

Lloyd you are right about ball powder in a powder measure, it sure meters better, for the 223/5.56 I usually use H335 or CFE223. I have an RCBS powder measure, 2 Lyman 55's and use the Hornady powder measure on my Hornady L-N-L AP that came with it. I don't have any benchrest dies but use Hornady and Lyman and RCBS dies with a couple of sets of Redding dies although my Redding 280 Ack Imp dies do have one of the micrometer seating dies as well as the standard one. Haven't shot any of my 280 Imp. guns in several years though. The difference in ammo was the same whether loaded on my RCBS progressive or L-N-L AP vs my Lee challenger, Classic Cast or Rock Chucker, just the way it is, small as it may be there is a difference at least with my equipment.

Steve...........

[Lloyd Smale]

steve i have a brand new set of rcbs 280ai dies. If you or anyone else has a use for them send me a pm and you can have them for 10 bucks to cover shipping. I bought them when i was wheeling and dealing on a gun and the owner ended up more proud of it then me. I about know ill never use them.

[Steve E]

Appreciate the offer Lloyd but I sprang for a set of Redding with the extra Micro seater die when I was shooting the 280 Ack a lot but haven't shot any of mine in quite a few years now.

Steve...........

[gypsyman]

2 press's--What I call my blamo/ammo, .380, 9mm, .40 and .45 on a 550. All my bottleneck rifle, .223/5.56, .270, .308, .375 get loaded on a Redding T-7 turret.

[Steve E]

It is easier for me to load bottle neck stuff (no Carbide die) on the single stage and most pistol ammo on the progressive. Loading rifle ammo on the progressive you have to start with sized/primed cases so you don't have to stop and clean lube off the case.

Steve.........

[Lloyd Smale]

i do 556 on a progressive but have a routine. I do it on my lnl progressive with a case feeder. first i set it up with a sizing die and my  dillon trimmer in the third station. I size deprime and trim on the first operation. Then if its range brass i just got it goes over to the dillon primer pocket swadger. Then I (usually my wife) hand primes it. If its brass ive already swadged i prime it on the lnl in the same first operation. Then it goes in the tumbler for a couple hours to get the case lube off.  Then i set the other lnl progressive up with a powder measure and seating die and and charge and seat bullets. Honestly i dont like the lnl's so i just leave them set up that way but if you wanted to load A LOT of a certain caliber rifle you could do the same. Ive also do 308s for the ar10 on the 550 and just lube them and run size deprime reprime and seat the bullet and take the loaded rounds afterward and tumble them for an hour or so. Never seen it hurt a thing or effect accuracy. But again thats with ball poweders. I dont know how stick powders would hold up to that but id bet a dime to a 100 bucks it woudnt hurt a thing using them either. What i dont like doing is tumbling lubed brass without a primer in the pocket. I use walnut and it tends to plug the flash hole up and i have to sit with a pick and look at every one and pick out the media so even if im doing it on a single stage i always prime then tumble.

[Land_Owner]

The AR platform barrel and its M16 brethren barrels are inherently accurate with the correct weight bullet for its twist.  If you look at cases from your AR platform you may note how dented and "abused" they become from case extraction.  Some of that may occur while stripping the round from the magazine and slamming it into the chamber.

Like Steve E, and others, I load hunting rifle rounds on the single stage press and belly gun and AR rounds on the progressive, which is restricted to cartridges of 2.260" and under (RCBS Piggyback II).

[Steve E]

I used a Piggy Back II for years, I had it on a Rock Chucker for a long time but finally would up with it on my Lee Classic Cast press where it stayed for years till I got the L-N-L AP press.

Steve..........

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot 1000s ever year and havent seen a dented case. Could be the gun that is doing that has an out of spec ejector or extractor. Now my nephews browning bar 270 will dent every case neck. My old cetme would about destroy 308 brass. I buy 556 once fired by the flat rate box which holds about 3k and ive boughten a bunch of them through the years and might have came across a handfull of dented cases and for all i know they could have gotten stepped on or hit rocks when they ejected. But if your seeing them out of your gun then something is wrong with that gun.

The AR platform barrel and its M16 brethren barrels are inherently accurate with the correct weight bullet for its twist.  If you look at cases from your AR platform you may note how dented and "abused" they become from case extraction.  Some of that may occur while stripping the round from the magazine and slamming it into the chamber.

Like Steve E, and others, I load hunting rifle rounds on the single stage press and belly gun and AR rounds on the progressive, which is restricted to cartridges of 2.260" and under (RCBS Piggyback II).

[Lloyd Smale]

had a piggy back years ago and have two lnls today. It would be hard for me to say which was the worse press but i think the rcbs would have to be the worse but not by much. Neither of them hold a candle to a dillion. Honestly the only thing i use my lnls for anymore is loading 556. I have one set up to size deprime and trim and the other to charge and seat. Even then the case feeders make me pull my hair out. Matter of fact the one i charge and seat on has the parts taken off and the only thing left is the mast and collator but there not used. Id probably like them a bit more if i would have never bought case feeders for them. But even the priming SUCKS.. It has to be kept hospital clean its why ive come to lubing sizing depriming. trimming then swageing if needed then i tumble them and prime them with a hand primer. Dumbest move i ever made in the hobby was buying those presses. For what i payed for the two of them i could have bought one 650 and had money left over or thrown in a couple hundred more bucks and had a 1050. To late in life to spend what they want now for a 1050 so i just get buy with what i have but when i watch my buddy load 556 on his 1050 i shake my head.

I used a Piggy Back II for years, I had it on a Rock Chucker for a long time but finally would up with it on my Lee Classic Cast press where it stayed for years till I got the L-N-L AP press.

Steve..........

[Land_Owner]

I used a Piggy Back II for years...wound up with it on my Lee Classic Cast press

I wondered if the green PBII would fit on the red Classic Cast.  Good to know (without modification?)!

I worked through the cost effective PBII idiosyncrasies and found a comfortable way forward that is smooth operating.  I took case forming to the Classic Cast offline, case priming to a Universal offline, and keep PBII rotating parts clean.  I am satisfied in PBII primed case belling, powder measuring, bullet seating, and crimping.  Caliber change, through dedicated tool heads, is simple and fast.  RCBS has been professional in every way replacing the few worn and boogered (that I did) parts.   

I never "needed" a Dillon.  I looked at them on multiple occasions.  I spent the money saved, not retooling, on component purchasing, cast, and PC, in all of which I am set for Life.  I would not have shot more with a Dillon and my AR and handgun shooting has not been inhibited through the use of a PBII.   

I make my bottle neck hunting rifle rounds, all of them, on a single stage press and blamo- and belly gun-ammo on the PBII.

[billy_56081]

I use a turret press with autoindex it works pretty good and I can load pretty fast.

[Steve E]

Land_Owner

It was easy to put the PDII on the Lee Classic Cast press, I drilled a hole for the locator pin and the way I wanted mine turned I took a round file and filed a small notch on the top left of the press frame for the spent primer tube. The PBII was one of the best presses I ever had. After getting it dialed in I only had to adjust it a couple of times in several years. I only loaded pistol ammo on it and it churned out quite a few thousand 9mm and 45's over the years.

Steve.........

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess thats the true answer. It depends on how much you shoot and how much time you want to spend loading to do that shooting. Me? The first part LOTS the second part LITTLE.

I used a Piggy Back II for years...wound up with it on my Lee Classic Cast press

I wondered if the green PBII would fit on the red Classic Cast.  Good to know (without modification?)!

I worked through the cost effective PBII idiosyncrasies and found a comfortable way forward that is smooth operating.  I took case forming to the Classic Cast offline, case priming to a Universal offline, and keep PBII rotating parts clean.  I am satisfied in PBII primed case belling, powder measuring, bullet seating, and crimping.  Caliber change, through dedicated tool heads, is simple and fast.  RCBS has been professional in every way replacing the few worn and boogered (that I did) parts.   

I never "needed" a Dillon.  I looked at them on multiple occasions.  I spent the money saved, not retooling, on component purchasing, cast, and PC, in all of which I am set for Life.  I would not have shot more with a Dillon and my AR and handgun shooting has not been inhibited through the use of a PBII.   

I make my bottle neck hunting rifle rounds, all of them, on a single stage press and blamo- and belly gun-ammo on the PBII.

[Land_Owner]

i guess thats the true answer. It depends on how much you shoot and how much time you want to spend loading to do that shooting. Me? The first part LOTS the second part LITTLE.

I get that lloyd.  Your experience is significantly different from mine.  I would have loved depredation hunting, I think.  I certainly enjoy venison (and the bounty in my woods has been pork), though I do not shoot with others at the range.

I am satisfied with how much I shoot versus how long I spend making ammo.  I am used to sitting in a tree stand for long periods waiting for game to participate and then shooting a rifle one time.  I am neither in a hurry nor a rush. 

I practice the same way.  My equipment, ammunition, and I perform to practiced expectations. I am highly confidence in the outcome when hunting. 

I shoot handguns similarly, deliberately, and with purpose.  I maintain the mindset to be the victor and not a victim.  I am confident in my equipment, ammo, and capability.  Ordinarily I shoot alone...

Occasionally my boys and their friends, or adult acquaintances want to "blow holes in the sky", so I oblige them in their pursuit of recreation with a side of serious intent.  All safety rules are openly discussed, especially "1.) every gun is loaded until you personally verify it is not, 2.) point every muzzle in a safe direction, and 3.) never point a gun at something unless you intend to obliterate it", followed by obliterating a melon, or water filled milk jug, or liter bottle of soda.  For most, the auditory and visual effect is sobering and not soon forgotten. 

Then I ask them to "4.) think about the deadliest animal in the woods right now - (pause for effect) - which is YOU with a loaded gun.  Shootings do not 'just happen'.  There are NO ACCIDENTS.  Someone pulled a trigger.  Shooting has serious and DEADLY implications, which are YOUR personal responsibility.  Do not let your head check out for one second in your exuberance to shoot.  Once YOU pull the trigger there is no recall, no 'do over', no respawn, no additional life, where the bullet goes is YOUR responsibility, up to and INCLUDING DEATH, so, 5.) keep your finger off of the trigger." 

With young adults, I wait about 5 minutes (4 minutes longer than their attention span).  Then we have the safety talk a 2nd time.

[Steve E]

Land_Owner

Sounds like you got it handled pretty well.

Steve.......