Extending the issue..

[ironglow]

  France to send AMX RC10 recon tanks on rubber to Ukraine.  This could cause great concern for Russiuan armor and artillery.

  Now, to add to the tension, Germany will not attempt to keep Poland from sending some Leopard 2 tanks to the Ukraine. 
   https://www.foxnews.com/world/germany-not-stop-poland-delivering-leopard-2-tanks-ukraine-relenting-us-pressure
  Now; that could be a game changer... Russia doesn't have anything to compare directly with the Leopard 2..
  Although not actually tested in any large scale conflict, the Leopards compare well with the Abrams and the Challenger, which could go through T-90s .."like a dose of salts"..

  The Leopard idea is more feasible than the Abrams, since #1 The Leopards are already in Europe  and #2  The
  Abrams would take more training to operate and maintain.
 
   I do not relish this move, especially when we look at what Biden is doing..

    First he depletes our military of enough equipment in Afghanistan, to equip a major army..now he wants to deplete it more by  handing over great swathes of our hardware ..perhaps cutting our resources short.

   Now consider this...Biden could stop the conflict in the war in the Ukraine in a very short time..

  How could he do that ?  Very easy, he could open up our petroleum pipelines, allow drilling and help coal mines get back to production.

  ...But no...he wants to keep making big bucks...and pleasing his big bosses at the WEF...

[Dee]

It is a violation of the WW2 Armistice Treaty  for Germany to supply war materials to a foreign entity at war with one of the allies of WW2.
Look into that.
.

BS.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-germany-fears-sending-tanks-to-ukraine-11674225552

[Dee]

It is a violation of the WW2 Armistice Treaty  for Germany to supply war materials to a foreign entity at war with one of the allies of WW2.
Look into that.
.

Germany has been demilitarized twice in the past.  After WW1 the Versailles Treaty effectively demilitarized Germany only to be ignored by Hitler's government who rebuilt the Wehrmacht and unified with horrid Ukrainian Nazi fascist. Is history repeating itself?
At the conclusion of WW2 Germany was occupied and it's military destroyed and related industries destroyed. This demilitarization of Germany was codified in the Potsdam Agreement:
According to the Protocol of the Potsdam Conference, there was to be “a complete disarmament and demilitarization of Germany”; all aspects of German industry that could be utilized for military purposes were to be dismantled; all German military and paramilitary forces were to be eliminated; and the production of all military arms forbidden.

And as the occupation forces tried to reconstitute a cogent German government they created a proto constitution, known as The Basic Law, which likewise kept Germany a demilitarized state.

Not until 1955 with the Cold War enveloping the world did the Globalist allow Germany to join NATO and recreate a military known as the Bundewehr, which has grown today to be a key component of the Globalist NATO battering ram against Russia. And the remilitarization of Germany has many Europeans alarmed _ _ most alarmed France who was occupied twice by Germany.

Even Anna Baerbock, German foreign minister, acknowledged this history just a few days ago and criticized German shipments of arms to Ukraine.
.

So you say, but you offer no proof.

You also said: "Look into that". So I did.

Germany is saying nuthin of the kind, and says they simply can't afford it.

So, your "claim", appears to be "less than factual". 

[TrumpWon]

They’re sending tanks

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/24/europe/germany-leopard-2-tanks-ukraine-announcement-intl/index.html

[ironglow]

Some reflections.... 

er.    There are two people today who could stop this Ukraine invasion in short order...

  1) Putin could call for a cease fire to last long enough for him do do an effective pull out.

  2) Biden could regenerate the petroleum dominance we held, before he took office, which would pull Putin's financial rug from under his effort.

       As I see it, Biden is the more egregious of this pair, since he is playing both sides of the issue...extending the
   war by not opening our petro industries, while furnishing the hardware to continue the conflict.

   Meanwhile Biden bumbles along, not knowing what he is doing or saying...other than to obey his "handlers", the
   most radical of the Democrats.

      I don't know why anybody would think that having Ocasio-Cortez Rashida Talib, Ayana Pressley and Ilhan Omar
    directing our foreign policy...is a good move.

   But he's their dog..so he obeys..

[TrumpWon]

“   2) Biden could regenerate the petroleum dominance we held, before he took office, which woulod pull Putin's financial rug from under his effort.”

Oil production is at a record level. Why isn’t the war over?

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_crude_oil_field_production

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55299

[ironglow]

 Zelensky or no, I just can't go along with that idea. When a sovereign land is invaded, to "negotiate" means you must give something away...and the aggressor has gained what he wanted in the first place.

  For example; if Germany were to jump the border and invade Liechtenstein.  Germany could batter those people for 11 months, then say.. "let's negotiate"!  Which would make Germany entitled to part of Liechtenstein.. which would only encourage more aggressive behavior around the world.

  Sure Liechtenstein and Germany were both at one time , part of the Holy Roman Empire.. but I don't see where
  either has a claim on the other.

  Actually, unlike Putin with Ukraine..I don't see where NATO has ever taken a square foot of Russia by force, or even threatened to do so. 
  Yes, some of the former satellites, now free states, have chosen to cast their lot with NATO, for defense, rather than offense.  I honestly see Putin's fear of NATO, to be elevated because he has expansionist plans.

  ..But as I have said, we have two bad actors here one driven by expansionist plans, the other driven by crazy
   people who have found a a home in his chosen political party.

  At least, ...Putin can be read and understood, while the insane people in our political scene are owned by even more
   evil billionaires, who are doing the Devil's work.

   So we are more cursed that even is Russia.
 

[ironglow]

“   2) Biden could regenerate the petroleum dominance we held, before he took office, which woulod pull Putin's financial rug from under his effort.”

Oil production is at a record level. Why isn’t the war over?

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_crude_oil_field_production

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55299

 Come now, you know better than that ! Sure oil production is edging up, but oil consumption ins surging up.

 Unlike in the US, where there are so many anti-energy and anti-Americans in office, much of the rest of the
   world is using a great deal more energy...and of course, much of the energy is being consumed by that conflict
  in eastern Europe.

  No, if the demented one wanted to do any good..he should open our tap, so as to drop oil prices worldwide, so Putin could not afford to prosecute the war. ...And we could take Putin's boot off western Europe's neck.
   We have plenty of petroleum, so we could enrich America (ns) in the process.  We could even sell many tons of coal to China for their new generating plants.  They are going to feed them with coal in any case, may as well be coal they bought from us !

  Please give us one excuse as to why Biden robbed our strategic reserve, and sold it to China for peanuts on the dollar.   Some other excuse than that he personally owes China so much..

[Mule 11]

Flounder is only here to gas light and post she/its propaganda...

[ironglow]

Flounder is much like most on the left...they seem to have a weird agenda..often mixed with Marxism.  So they enjoy screaming insults and accusations, but rarely will get down to a point-for-point discussion.

  I believe that to be because Marxism and the entire post-modernism philosophies are so  very difficult to defend.

  I maintain that there is NO LOGICAL DEFENSE for either Marxism or post-modernism..

  ..But of course, that is their weak link...they cannot deal with logic.

[Dee]

Well, looks like that Germany can't furnish arms to Ukraine "conspiracy theory" kind of fell through and went nowhere. But then again, it came from "nowhere", and so it ended up "nowhere". More "disinformation".

[gypsyman]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

[Dee]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

I wonder how many biolabs Russia has? And who really believes anything Russia says?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/russian-claims-us-biolabs-absurd

[ironglow]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

   That crisis was ended on the open seas..

[Mule 11]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

I wonder how many biolabs Russia has? And who really believes anything Russia says?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/russian-claims-us-biolabs-absurd

Pretty sure he said the D.O.D. Admitted to it, no mention of what Russia says...

[Mule 11]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

   That crisis was ended on the open seas..

In what way?

[ironglow]

I wonder if those 24-26 Bio-labs that were in the Ukraine, and the D.O.D. admitted to, is why Putin invaded in the first place? In '62 JFK went with the Cuban missile crisis to keep nuke's out of Castro's hands.

   That crisis was ended on the open seas..

In what way?

   No question there..  Khrushchev had his fleet escorting missile carrying ships, on their way to Cuba.  Pres Kennedy ordered then US fleet to stand between the Russian fleet and Cuba.
    Being a Navy veteran himself, JFK told the nation that if the Soviets passed a certain latitude, the US Navy was to "deep six" them..
    The Soviets were testing American courage and determination..some very tense days followed...

   Finally one day we heard the news...the Soviet fleet had turned back toward home...

      They had "come eye to eye..and Khrushchev blinked first"!  That is how the news explained it..

[ironglow]

The Cuban missile crisis was ultimately resolved by negotiations with Kennedy agreeing to pull nukes and missiles out of Turkey and halt NATO's march to the east. This lead to a thawing in the cold war, and Kennedy and Kruchev became mutually respected statesmen. Kruchev even touring the USA.
Seems likely hardliners would have got their nuclear war had not Kennedy and Kruchev resorted to diplomacy.
.

  That was after the 'showdown on the high seas'.  It was at that point where still being in reserves and having my
    MOS, I figured I would be called back, so I re-upped after being out for 5 years.

  I shipped to Ft Jackson, where i met the so-called "Cuban freedom fighters", the ones JFK abandoned at the Bay of Pigs....  Some of them were good guys..some bummers...

  As it turned out, I didn't fight any Cubans in Cuba...but we did have a big old brawl with them at Ft Jackson.
   Seems it took all the MPs in post, to clear that rumble on top of tank hill !...

  I rather think that Khruhschev  eventually made nice with Kennedy, just to retain his position at home.  He had been thoroughly humiliated by his 'cut & run' on the high seas..

  I found this from the time.. 
   https://www.cfr.org/blog/twe-remembers-eyeball-eyeball-and-other-fellow-just-blinked-cuban-missile-crisis-day-nine

   You will notice three things from the article..

  1)  The Soviet ships turned at just about 500 miles from Cuba.

  2) Despite the turn around and by the next day, the Soviet leader lying to JFK, saying he was defying the US, and
    coming on anyway...even though his whole fleet was by then headed back to the USSR.

  3) In the situation room RFK warned his brother JFK, that if he did not hold firm, he would likely be impeached..

      #3 sure is a far cry from what happened just months ago in Afghanistan... The Dems sure have slidden into the
          pit since then...

[ironglow]

Yes, well I think that is what the Russians are trying to do in Ukraine. Tried peacefully for 8 years. Honored the Minsk Agreements, which has come out and admitted by Merkel et al to be a con job to bide time to build the NATO army in Ukraine.
Now what we're getting from Russia is the Fascist have reassembled in Berlin and also Washington, and again attacking Russia with the tank deal.  F15s next. Clayton and Natali went over this yesterday.
.

  Yes, the escalation continues..too many stubborn heads to deal with.  Do youbreally think that NATO ever had intentions of attacking Russia at any time? 
   
   If you believe that.then that is where we likely differ, since I cannot envision NATO ever trying to expand by force.
  I have continually seen NATO as a defensive force..only interfering where NATOs interests are threatened, but never by expansion.

  I could be wrong, but that is how I see it.  Sure Putin could back out, but he has a tremendous ego, plus backing out now would perhaps give him a one way ticket to Irkutsk..

  The one best positioned to stop the conflict is Biden; but he is too busy genuflecting tr that female heII SQUAD he
    has in congress, that he has on his butt !

 

[ironglow]

TM;
  I am not buying into the Washington, Paris, Berlin or even Ottawa propaganda...Washington being the titular "leader of the pack"..  However I do not and have not seen, NATO invading Russia, or eastern Europe. 
 
   Yes; nations of eastern Europe, have willingly joined NATO..but since the dissolution of the old, defunct USSR, I see
   that as their privilege and right.

  As it stands, I see 2 protagonists..Biden (his handlers) and Putin.  I view the Washington side as the more egregious,
   since Putin has one way of ending this war, while Biden has two ways to end the war.

   ..But both refuse to do it !

[ironglow]

Putin negotiated for 8 years and was conned by phony Minsk Agreements, while NATO deep state surreptitiously occupied Ukraine and built a NATO based army and a program to bleed Russia dry.
Back in April Zelenskyy and Putin we're meeting to negotiate, but Boris Johnson was rushed in to nix those negotiations. IIRC, Boris was even out of office and had no business being in Kiev.

If you observe the satanic WEF/Biden Regime in action you might conclude that along with depopulation they want the destruction of the USA. I believe this includes nuclear war which the Biden demofascist have been creating and to be blamed on Russia. This could seriously happen next week, if you can imagine the discussions around the Kremlin.
.

.

  ..But here is how I see it..  What is to negotiate?  The final nail was driven into the coffin of the old USSR, back in
  December 1991...and good riddance to a seven decade nightmare thrust upon the world!

   The fact that Putin could not accept the verdict, should not count for more than a "bucket of warm spit".

 He had the opportunity, and could have done great things  with the "Motherland", but it seems h=e chose to aggress on the now free republics.

  The excuse of "Russian speakers" is pallid water indeed.  Since many of the countries were already Slavic..after being held in submission for over 70 years, obviously many were Russian speakers, but  that doesn't mean they want to be back under the Russian yoke again.
    I have a couple friends who taught in China back in the 1980s, and have a pretty good handle on Mandarin, but
   they sure wouldn't want to spend the rest of their lives in China.

  Again,  I don't consider Putin to be the worst actor in this melodrama, the real bad boys being the WEF and the globalists.