Quietly observing..

[ironglow]

Quietly observing.. the Asbury revival. "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because false prophets have  gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)  If it is a serious prayer and study of the word, accompanied by solid preaching, great!  If it devolves into rolling on the floor and jumping over the pews stiff-legged...well.. "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Cor 14:33a)
   Here's one view.. 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA6RjmFp2Rk

  Another view;
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYNZFzOkjQ

[Bob Riebe]

  I was watching Creflo Dollar, his TV preaching is actually pretty good now , but every now and then he does the speaking in tongues bit ( not a tranformed long babble but just a few words) well one day last week after he did that, some one in the congregation shouted out," Yabba Dabba Doo".

He smiled and pointed at him and said, yeh,  yabba dabba doo, and made a quick quip and went on with his preaching out of the Bible.

Had that been Copeland he would have had a shite fit attacking the congregation member.

[ironglow]

  " Well one day last week after he did that, some one in the congregation shouted out," Yabba Dabba Doo"."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ^^^ ^^^

[Dee]

I was watching Creflo Dollar, his TV preaching is actually pretty good now , but every now and then he does the speaking in tongues bit ( not a tranformed long babble but just a few words) well one day last week after he did that, some one in the congregation shouted out," Yabba Dabba Doo".

He smiled and pointed at him and said, yeh,  yabba dabba doo, and made a quick quip and went on with his preaching out of the Bible.

Had that been Copeland he would have had a shite fit attacking the congregation member.

Creflo Dollars network not counting his G650 Jet worth 60 million.

https://www.wealthypersons.com/creflo-dollar-net-worth-2020-2021/

https://mddailyrecord.com/creflo-dollar-net-worth-girlfriend-wife-kids-height-weight-age-gay-bio-2021-2022-2023

[ironglow]

Creflo DOLLAR...is well named..
   I wonder if he changed an original name for DOLLAR?  I wonder but what it may just be a wry joke on his supporters?

[Dee]

Franklin Grahams' salary is more than all the others.

[Bob Riebe]

Creflo DOLLAR...is well named..

His father's last name was Dollar.
How much they have has little influence on how I view them, what they preach is what I check. (Although I found Copeland is an arrogant arse-hole as far as personality goes, and that counts)

I have watched Dollar (his show follows Huckabee's variety show) and his preaching is no longer the prosperty crap from the past.
But then from what I have read, his family problems ten some years ago had big effect on him.

[Dee]

Creflo DOLLAR...is well named..

His father's last name was Dollar.
How much they have has little influence on how I view them, what they preach is what I check. (Although I found Copeland is an arrogant arse-hole as far as personality goes, and that counts)

I have watched Dollar (his show follows Huckabee's variety show) and his preaching is no longer the prosperty crap from the past.
But then from what I have read, his family problems ten some years ago had big effect on him.

Of course he's all about prosperity. Everything he says, does, and possesses reaks of it.

Dollars home in Atlanta $1,000,000.00

Dollars home in Demarest NJ $2,500,000.00

Dollars home in Manhattan $2,500,00.00

Dollars private Jet $5,000,000.00

The profit from the sale of another of Dollars homes $3,750,000.00

"Mark Chapter 10 verses 17 thru 22"  you won't see Creflo Dollar doin anything remotely similar to Christs teachings on that.

[ironglow]

Creflo DOLLAR...is well named..

His father's last name was Dollar.
How much they have has little influence on how I view them, what they preach is what I check. (Although I found Copeland is an arrogant arse-hole as far as personality goes, and that counts)

I have watched Dollar (his show follows Huckabee's variety show) and his preaching is no longer the prosperty crap from the past.
But then from what I have read, his family problems ten some years ago had big effect on him.

Of course he's all about prosperity. Everything he says, does, and possesses reaks of it.

Dollars home in Atlanta $1,000,000.00

Dollars home in Demarest NJ $2,500,000.00

Dollars home in Manhattan $2,500,00.00

Dollars private Jet $5,000,000.00

The profit from the sale of another of Dollars homes $3,750,000.00

"Mark Chapter 10 verses 17 thru 22"  you won't see Creflo Dollar doin anything remotely similar to Christs teachings on that.

  Sheesh !  Several multi-million dollar homes.. That sounds like some of those Kerry, Obama, Gore politician types;
  or perhaps like those rich Russian Oligarch types.

  If he has genuinely repented and will divest himself of unfairly gained wealth. ...Time will tell.

[Dee]

Franklin Graham ain't doing too bad either. His "personal net worth" is over 10 million dollars.

ALL OF'EM INCLUDIN OLE FRANKIE HAVE KINDA SKIPPED OVER MARK CHAPTER 10 VERSES 17 THRU 22.

[ironglow]

Franklin Graham ain't doing too bad either. His "personal net worth" is over 10 million dollars.

ALL OF'EM INCLUDIN OLE FRANKIE HAVE KINDA SKIPPED OVER MARK CHAPTER 10 VERSES 17 THRU 22.

  That disappoints me also.  He does much good and preaches a good message. Although there is no vow of poverty listed, and they should not need one. ...It sure seems like many of these "high maintenance" preachers, could take less pay...and donate the rest to the gospel....charity and missions..

[Dee]

Christ said sell your wealth, and give the money to the poor. The only difference between Franklin Graham and the others is he learned from his daddy to be less showy, and flamboyant.
Like rest, Graham got his fortune from so-called tithes sent in by people with far less than he. Money they send in "for Gods work" inadvertently, unintentionally, pays him $1,000,000.00+ expenses a year.

Imagine asking poor Christian people, and elderly people on social security to send money to your ministry, while you yourself, take 1 million of that money a year and put in your own pocket, and go everywhere in private jets.

That's Franklin Graham, and the rest of those TV hornswagglers. "Talking a good message",  while pocketing a 12 million dollar fortune isn't what Christ taught.

[Dee]

Billy Grahams' net worth at the time of his death was 25 million dollars. A preacher makes 25 million? Really? TV evangelism pays really well.
Yes, he made money on books, drew a huge salary, gave money to charity, but its never been clear where all his money came from.

Anybody with any sense, knows where it came from.

https://money.com/billy-graham-net-worth-quotes-money-greed/

[Dee]

There was an old time Baptist preacher named Bruce Cushman that preached in a little country church in Elmont Texas back in the 50s.
I couldn't have been more than 6 or 8, but Brother Cushman as he was known got my full attention when he preached. I didn't understand everything he was saying, but I didn't doubt anything he said, and I didn't doubt that he believed it himself.
I've never forgotten him, and can still see him with rolled up sleeves, preaching without a pa system in that little church with no air conditioning.
I talked with him over the phone about 3 years ago to thank him for the impression he made on me way back then. He was in his early 90s, and he remembered that little church.
When preachers weren't interested in the money, and did their own visits instead of sending someone in their place.

I also think preachers that worked full, or part time jobs, but still made time to preach full time in a church we're better grounded.

[ironglow]

There was an old time Baptist preacher named Bruce Cushman that preached in a little country church in Elmont Texas back in the 50s.
I couldn't have been more than 6 or 8, but Brother Cushman as he was known got my full attention when he preached. I didn't understand everything he was saying, but I didn't doubt anything he said, and I didn't doubt that he believed it himself.
I've never forgotten him, and can still see him with rolled up sleeves, preaching without a pa system in that little church with no air conditioning.
I talked with him over the phone about 3 years ago to thank him for the impression he made on me way back then. He was in his early 90s, and he remembered that little church.
When preachers weren't interested in the money, and did their own visits instead of sending someone in their place.

I also think preachers that worked full, or part time jobs, but still made time to preach full time in a church we're better grounded.

  Doing it from their "heart & soul", the best and most memorable preachers ever.

[Bob Riebe]

With the best known TV preachers some started with near nothing but , but power corrupts, and in thier cases power with money corrupts absolutely.

[Dee]

Everyone Christian puts people like Billy Graham on a "holy pedestal", but it's obscene to realize their tithing, and donations to God allowed him to accumulate 25 million dollars in personal wealth.

He was no better than the rest. Just more discrete.

[geosmin]

They do no harm.

Mark 9:38-41
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

[ironglow]

  Yes..another view.... If they are indeed, saving souls and helping others, it is up to their cash donors to back off the
   funding of his organization,  The Lord sees it all and likely tales note it all..so any corruption will be recompensed.   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[Dee]

They do no harm.

Mark 9:38-41
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

YES THEY ARE. CHRIST TAUGHT THAT YOU LIVE AMONG THE  PEOPLE. THESE GUYS ARE TAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MEANT FOR THE CHURCH/PEOPLE, AND HAVE "MADE THEMSELVES" FABULOUSLY WEALTHY.

THE SCRIPTURE YOUR USING IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT.

MARK CHAPTER 10 VERSES 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, & 22

[Ranger99]

There's a few that manage to
sock away a golden goose egg
for when things go south.
Jimmy swaggart and jim bakker
and Robert tilton have all started
back in their televangelist businesses
after being outed as whoremongers
and hiding in disgrace.
Marcus lamb passed a while back, and
didn't suffer too much over his
transexual prostitute scandal.
I guess his original business is still
booming

[Ranger99]

Got me to thinking
Years ago when I worked east of
here out of town, there was a
"mega church " that was really
popular with the affluent crowd.
The interstate highway would be
so backed up with traffic, they had
to assign police to direct traffic
and cone off about a 1/2 mile of
road to the exit for the church.
It was always televised and a big
show and people would get up
in the aisles and fall over and make
a big show of removing their Rolexes
and jewelry and dropping several
hundreds in the plate and such.
A friend had a coworker that attended
there, and I was told that the guy had
to keep a log of everything he spent
money on, because a church "counselor "
felt that he wasn't giving enough of
his money to the church. I can remember
this particular "preacher " had an early
morning weekday broadcast, and one
time I watched he appeared in cammo
clothing with his face painted and he
said he was a commando for God
( or something like that) and that
he'd been tasked with raising a
certain amount of money to bring on
the second coming by so-and-so date
etc.
I don't remember the name of the church
or the preacher's name, but it all
kind of dropped off the map and the
building was sold and I never heard
anything else about any of it.
I guess those that were bilked of
their money are embarrassed to
speak of it

[ironglow]

There's a few that manage to
sock away a golden goose egg
for when things go south.
Jimmy swaggart and jim bakker
and Robert tilton have all started
back in their televangelist businesses
after being outed as whoremongers
and hiding in disgrace.
Marcus lamb passed a while back, and
didn't suffer too much over his
transexual prostitute scandal.
I guess his original business is still
booming

  So, should we feel sorry for those who go back to supporting the "snake oil" type operators?  I think not..but perhaps we had best have concern for their mental state..

[geosmin]

They do no harm.

Mark 9:38-41
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

YES THEY ARE. CHRIST TAUGHT THAT YOU LIVE AMONG THE  PEOPLE. THESE GUYS ARE TAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MEANT FOR THE CHURCH/PEOPLE, AND HAVE "MADE THEMSELVES" FABULOUSLY WEALTHY.

THE SCRIPTURE YOUR USING IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT.

MARK CHAPTER 10 VERSES 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, & 22

My reply was to the topic of the thread.
It and scripture stands.

I've no interest to pursue where you would like to take the topic for whatever purpose.

[ironglow]

  I have heard reports both ways..so as I stated at the outset..so as I originally said..I'm quietly observing..

 Sure hope it is the "real McCoy"..

[Bob Riebe]

The Church that disappeared was probably a Word of Life stink hole; there was one in my home town.
They started in the Old Baptist church across the street from my church; I went there one Sunday out of curiosity and found a gent I was confirmed with in that congregation .

I learned he was a upper level member; they built a new church out at the edge of town among all the new church buildings that , no more walking to church.
Any way my friend challenged the head preacher on not being able to look at the books; he left the church and after others challenged the head so called preacher the church shut down and is now a building for pre-school, not religious related.

God knows ones hearts, so that are truly brough to Jesus , are among his , as far as the faux christian preachers, their eternity is sealed by their actions.

Dollar had a revelation, last year and told his followers to burn every tape and book he wrote on tithing, that he had been preaching a lie.
Well other main school Black preachers said, they would believe his transformation when he started giving back the money they had spent on those books and tapes.
His preaching on his TV show now has changed drastically.
Time to sell a house and give money back.

[Dee]

The Church that disappeared was probably a Word of Life stink hole; there was one in my home town.
They started in the Old Baptist church across the street from my church; I went there one Sunday out of curiosity and found a gent I was confirmed with in that congregation .

I learned he was a upper level member; they built a new church out at the edge of town among all the new church buildings that , no more walking to church.
Any way my friend challenged the head preacher on not being able to look at the books; he left the church and after others challenged the head so called preacher the church shut down and is now a building for pre-school, not religious related.

God knows ones hearts, so that are truly brough to Jesus , are among his , as far as the faux christian preachers, their eternity is sealed by their actions.

Dollar had a revelation, last year and told his followers to burn every tape and book he wrote on tithing, that he had been preaching a lie.
Well other main school Black preachers said, they would believe his transformation when he started giving back the money they had spent on those books and tapes.
His preaching on his TV show now has changed drastically.
Time to sell a house and give money back.

Do you have a link on Dollars revelation? Because he certainly hasn't given up any of his wealth.

[ironglow]

From Bob;
   "God knows ones hearts, so that are truly brough to Jesus , are among his , as far as the faux christian preachers, their eternity is sealed by their actions."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  That's the key..one can fool men, but he can't fool God..they will reap what they sow..

  Orv building is far from new, having started in 1827. Later, it was enlarged and rebuilt in 1847.  There is still the
  remains of the 1827 roof & chimney between the ceiling and the later roof.
 
   We added a new extension to the rear a couple years ago, and are experiencing growth.  There used to be two bell
    towers, but one burned a few decades ago.  Were it still there, the church would have been on the national register,
   but then5, we might have not been allowed to build our addition.

  We do have an old time bell in the remaining tower..  It's about 5' across, at the mouth.

  Income and expenses?  That is easy...or books are open to any member on request, plus the figureds are displayed to the leadership every month..and read and handed out in print form to each member., at the annual meeting.

[Bob Riebe]

Do you have a link on Dollars revelation? Because he certainly hasn't given up any of his wealth.

Many see this as , yeah, now prove it; but some sites attack him for dissing tithing.
Sad state of affairs.

https://moguldom.com/414942/mega-preacher-creflo-dollar-says-his-preaching-on-tithing-was-all-wrong-black-america-responds/

This place, really does not like Dollar, but speak with forked tongue:

https://www.charismanews.com/culture/89661-pastor-revivalist-calls-out-creflo-dollar-for-anti-tithing-pronouncement

Sometimes the Apostle Paul named names when calling out false teachers, and other times he didn't. Today the Lord has instructed me to name names.

I'm calling out Creflo Dollar. He has been spiritually off for a long time.

The first red flag to his departure from truth is his teaching on sloppy grace (vs biblical grace). This started years ago and has now become a major teaching theme in his ministry.

At times, his false grace teaching even borders on the false teaching of universalism. Dangerous, dangerous stuff!

And now his anti-tithing teaching has just come out into the light (despite raking in millions of tithes over the years which he refuses to give back.)

So how will Christians respond to Creflo's "stop tithing" pronouncement:

1. The Remnant—those who are loyal to Jesus until the end—will recognize it as false and keep tithing (actually they'll look for ways they can be even more generous to God than 10%).

2. Those looking for a tithe "loophole" think they have found one and will stop tithing (so they can spend more money on pleasure and entertainment).

3. And for those who don't tithe, this heretical teaching will seal the deal that they never will (and then they can roll over and go back to spiritual sleep).

There will always be false teachers among us. However, make up your mind that you are part of the Remnant that is faithful to Jesus and His Word until the end.

[ironglow]

A few words from a couple wise, discerning men;

  " but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.” 
     
     (Rabbi Gamaliel, 1st century AD) (Acts 5)

  "If we are too busy using our sickles on each other, we will miss the harvest'." 

  (Vance Havner, 20th century preacher/legend)