Author Topic: Problem with primers not detonating . . . . (Read 709 times)

MGMorden · « **on:** March 18, 2004, 12:58:58 PM »

I just got my first batch of equipment recently and only unpacked it all 3 days ago, so know that my experience is limited

.

Ok, here's my scenario. I'm loading for a 6.5x55 SE. I've saved brass from two brands of ammo I bought: Igman and PMC. Not exactly known for their quality, but oh well (I'll order some Remington brass from Midway on my next order, but just want these to work for now). Ok, with the PMC cases, I consistently have a misfire. The pin strikes the primer (and it's a good strike), but it never goes bang; 10 cartridges did the same thing (NONE of them went off). What's puzzling, is that the Igman brass, loaded during the same session w/ the same primers, goes off every time. Anybody heard of this?

BTW, the PMC brass is boxer primed, so that ain't the problem.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:27:32 PM »

It may be that the primer is not seated all the into the pocket. The primer must be bottomed out get the full blow of the firing pin strike. The primer pocket is probably a little tighter in the PMC, and it will take more force to seat the primer. I use a Lee hand primer tool, so I am sure the primers are bottomed out. Good luck.

MGMorden · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2004, 02:54:33 PM »

I'm using a Lee Auto-prime as well, and actually the primers slipped in very smoothly on the PMC brass. On the Igman I had to use the chamfer tool on the primer pocket to open it up a bit, and only then would it stubbornly snap into place. :?

It's really bugging me. The PMC went smoother through the resize die, gave me less trouble priming, and then they just don't go boom.

The Shrink · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2004, 01:27:58 AM »

MG

How easy did the primers slip in? Might they have slipped back out a little, and created exactly the situation of the firing pin re-seating the primers rather than detonating them? What did the firing pin strike on the primer look like? Rather small and shallow?

The other option is that the primers on those cases were somehow compromised. Oil or water can do this, and if there was something liquid or oily in the primer pocket of those cases you can bet it compromised those primers big time.

If you don't have a bullet puller get one and pull the charges of those rounds. Then see if you can get the primers to detonate with a solid strike, pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, fireplaces work well. If you have a good strike and no detonation the primers were compromised and you might as well dump them, they'll never work. Then figure out how you contaminated them. If the primer is moving in the pocket, dump the cases.

Wayne the Shrink

MGMorden · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2004, 02:25:59 AM »

Primer strike was nice and deep. I tried the first two loaded and the other 8 were all empty primed brass. None went off. The thing is though, is that the ones that ARE going off (Igman brass), are from the same batch of primers. I didn't even have the brass seperated. It was in a pile, I'd grab a case (sometimes Igman, sometimes PMC) and prime it. Nothing special to make a difference between the two. The only thing I can think of is that there might have been something specific left over in the pockets of that brass that would contaminate the primer, though I don't see how. I took a cotton swab to all of them and cleaned out the pockets pretty good.

I'll try a different brand of primer and see if that makes a difference though. These are Federals. I'll see if CCI or Winchester performs any differently. And I'll have some better brass on the way when I order that bullet puller - which I definately need. I built like 8 dummy rounds to make sure I had that part right, and I have another 2 that I screwed up on (case buckled) that need bullets retrieved, and now 2 MORE misfired rounds with bullets still in them. Really need those bullets back. I only started with a box of 100 (140 gr Speer Hot-Cor) and that's too many gone astray :lol:.

reelhook · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2004, 05:43:52 AM »

I would believe that somewhere along the line-they became contaminated with oil. could have come off of your hands or like stated earlier-some left in the primer pocket or dould have been picked up from the container of primers. All modern primers are good from brand to brand but some shoot better in a particular rifle.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2004, 08:35:58 AM »

reelhook - I'm not so sure I can agree with you. I recently, very recently, read an article about possible contaminated primers and they found that even after the primer cups were filled with a penetrating spray oil, once they dried out they still fired. I used to worry about contaminating my primers when I oil on my fingers from cleaning/lubing my cases but they never misfired.

What I think may have happened is that with a loose primer pocket, if a primer could back out sufficiently either through primer pocket looseness and/or the possibly of subsequent air pressure being delivered into the case through the process of seating a bullet over powder and slightly backing out a primer, that it may have backed out enough so that when the firing pin first hit it, the anvil may have come loose so that even when the firing pin continued to impart its 'print' on the primer, without the anvil in place there would not have been any detonation. Just a thought. Mikey.

Donna · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2004, 09:53:33 AM »

Hello MGMorden,

Sometimes without analyzing the gun/primer/brass combination first hand it is hard to track down the problem. But first of all, I would buy all new brass of the same brand and lot number and I would suggest Winchester brass for their thickness and better ductile ability.

Donna :wink:

New Hampshire · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2004, 11:04:15 AM »

One writer went so far as to take the question of primer contamination right to a Primer manudacturer. He was told point blank that they had yet to find anything that would permanently de-activate a primer for good. The author was looking for an answer a questioneer had asked as to a way he could de-activate the primer for disposal. Seems the only way to permanently dipose of primers is to load them into an empty case and pop them off. The Primer manufacturer said that everything with they tried they managed to deactivate a primer for about a week using oil, I think. They all went off afterwards. So unless you are shooting contaminated primers the day after they were loaded in the PMC cases which were contaminated (Unlikely because you said you were just picking as you go and all the mis-fires still happened in the PMC leading me to believe it is NOT primer contamination,) I doubt thiat is the problem. I agree with Donna, try them in the new cases. If the problem disappears toss the PMC cases and never look back.
Brian M.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2004, 11:09:22 AM »

my guess is that you are setting the shoulder back to far when you are resising your brass and causing excessive headspace allowing the shell to move forward when the primer strikes it.

grizz · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2004, 11:24:42 AM »

I agree you cant kill a primer unless you set it off.. I tried many of ways to kill it but after drying they will still go off.. I let them soak for days in WD40,kroil,Black Powder solvent,Water,Gas,30W oil, ATF.. nothing worked.. Once they dry out they will fire again... The only other thing that will work is tear them apart..

Just curious how many times did you pull the trigger on them? I had some that wouldnt go off reloaded with the same round and bang it whent off..

grizz

MGMorden · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2004, 01:01:16 PM »

grizz: I only tried once on each one. I tried a few more today, and about half of them went off. Don't know. I might give them one more try, and if they don't work that time then they'll be tossed. Actually I'll be tossing them anyways as soon as I get some better brass, but I digress

.

The Shrink · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2004, 04:53:11 AM »

MG

If they went off on a second hit it strongly suggests that the primer pocket was too loose, seating the bullet probably caused the primer to back off a touch, the first strike re-seated the primer and the second strike detonated it. None of this would be obvious in the loading except the slightly loose primer seating, which you did notice. The rest would be minimal changes from normal.

Wayne the Shrink

MGMorden · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:41:15 AM »

They didn't go off on a second try. I just tried another 10 or so the next day (that hadn't been fired) and about half of those went off. It can't be the bullet seating though, as out of the 20 or so that I tried only 2 of them had bullets seated. I'm just going to try and get them to go off after a reprime, and if they don't, I'll toss the brass.

Kragman71 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2004, 02:59:56 PM »

MG,
Have you tested your flashholes with a .0078 drill?
You may have flashhole trouble.
Frank

sgtt · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2004, 06:24:07 PM »

Any luck with different primers? It does happen that a bad batch goes out. I have recently had some experience here with two different mfg. A few yrs back Rem. even had a a recall due to extra hard primers in their factory ammo. Ain't this reloading stuff fun?

MGMorden · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2004, 06:30:06 PM »

Yeah, it actually is

. I don't mind the extra work to start. Just gaining experience. I'm cranking out the 6.5x55 rounds pretty easily now. 7.62x25 is a completely different story though. The regular rounds I load don't seem to crimp right w/ the factory crimp die, and if I don't crimp they don't feed right into my CZ-52. I've already messed up like 15 cases trying to get that crimp right

. Oh well. I'll keep working at it.

Tom W. · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2004, 06:32:02 PM »

Sounds like the Weatherby MK V that I just HAD to have. the thing would fire some of my loads and not others, and would be the same way on factory loads, some would, and some wouldn't. I sent it back to Weatherby, and the said it was fixed, but the problem was still there. The rounds would fire in my son's Savage, so at the next gun show the synthetic Weatherby turned into a beautiful Ruger #1B, which fires the same loads without a hitch!