advice on Pyrodex/45-70

[timbertoes]

Hi,    I would certainly appreciate your advice on the following,

Cartdrige, 45-70.  Rifle, Handi Single Shot.

Bullet:  Hunters Supply  405gr FP. Hard cast lead. a green colored lube.

Powder: Hogdon Pyrodex RS  "ffg".

Overpowder wad:   aprrox .060 vegetable fiber material (buffalo arms).

Primer on hand:  CCI  LR (#200)

From what I have read here, the procedure is to fill the case until _slightly_ over the position of the Bullet and wad, and seat bullet/wad to compress powder.

If I do this, and have my COL at factory spec,

Will I get the proper, safe results, in your expereince and opinions ?

Is there anything else you reccomend ?

thanks VERY MUCH ,   :grin:
Bryan.

[Ray Newman]

If you compresses the powder by seating the bullet, you may very well wind up distorting the nose of the bullet & “bumping up the bullet” to a larger diameter. If the bullet is too, large it will not chamber or if it will chamber, when fired it can leave leading in the bore. Ea. successive round will just add more lead to the bore.

Do you have any idea of the hardness of the bullet? W/ Black Powder, Pyrodex, & other propellants, the desired aim is to have the soft lead bullet obturate (spelling ?) in the chamber upon firing & seal the bore so the gases stay behind the bullet & not lead the bore. If the bullet is too hard, it will not seal the chamber/bore properly.

Do you know the diameter of the bullet as well as the groove dia of the rifling? If the bullet is too small for the groove, it may very well bounce around the bore as it travels towards the muzzle. It may also improperly seal the bore & will allow the gas to blow by & most likely cause leading.

You may also want to adjust the overall length of the cartridge. Some rifles prefer that the bullet is just touching or slights engraves the land & grooves, other shoot their best when the bullet is seated off the rifling. Much of this sport is trial & error.

Same w/ crimping the buklet in place. Too much or even just a slight crimp can distort accuracy. Again, trial & error.

As for lube, I have never shot Pyrodex in a cartridge rifle. So I can’t speculate on the lube that is on the bullets. However,  I shoot Black Powder & the purpose of a BP lube is to keep the fouling soft. If the lube is designed for White Powder (AKA smokeless powder), it will not work well w/ BP. It might work for Pyrodex.

[w30wcf]

Timbertoes,

"Hard Cast" usually means anywhere from 16 -21 bhn. If that is the case,
you will have no problems in compressing the powder charge without distorting the bullet.  In the case of softer tin/lead bullets, (less than 10 bhn) one must use a compression die so that the bullet would not be distorted in the seating process as Ray indicated.

I have used Pyrodex in the .44-40 with wery good results. Bullets were wheel weights + 2% tin (12 bhn) and I used 1/8" compression with no wad.  I tried both SPG bp lube and the NRA 50/50 alox/beeswax smokeless lube.  Both worked the same, so you may be ok with the lube that is in the bullet. Testing will tell.

I would suggest filling the case to have a minimum of 1/8" compression, and a maximum of 3/16" on a settled powder charge (Dump the powder in the case slowly from a height of about 3-4" above the funnel. Or, if you have a drop tube, that would be better yet.).

You may or may not need the wad.  Best thing to do is try it both ways.

Have fun!
w30wcf

[timbertoes]

Thanks, On Monday, I will contact the bullet maker. They are a local outfit in Tioga, Tx.  Thats about 30 minutes from me. these bullets are sold by almost every store around me. These bullets are most definatly .459  measured several when loading with smokeless (varget). My first reloads, and have not fired them yet.

I also read an article about pyrodex pellets in the 45-70, in a Hodgdon publicatin, most interesting, but not overly detailed.

[TopperT]

In my 45-70 Buff, I'm loading EXACTLY 70 grs of Pyrodex RS.  Using a .389 sizing die on my own lead cast, I'm loading the SPG 'lubed'  round over .30 veg wad, and either a Win or Federal LR primer and I can keep 3 inch groups at 100 almost all day.
I'm shooting both the "Classic" and the 38-55 Target.  Using Pyrodex RS is a breeze simply load by volume with a good BP loader.   As for the bore, I have soooooo much excess lub when I seat the round ( O/A 2.525") I simply wipe the entirre round with the lube....anyway seems to work and again is clean..   Also Thompson Center Bore Butter is used on everything on both rifles and so far I have had zero issues with rust.

[Pogue]

Stick with Pyrodex RS rather than the C.  The C is too large grained to pour easily through my drop tube.  I notice little difference in accuracy between the two.  But overall, my best accuracy is still from real black powder!

Seat the bullet/wad so there is no air space or slightly compress.  If the bullet unseats a little bit, you are over-compressing.

I use Ox-Yoke Wonder Wads soaked in Bore Butter.  Also use Bore butter for clean up and storage after a few Windex patches.