Another "Inline" Trashed

[Ohio Joe]

Just got back from the range about an hour ago... Got  my, .45 percussion Dickert cleaned and put away...  Felt like shooting the cap lock today,,, anyway...  Local guy out there at the range when I arrived, he was trying to zero in an, "inline", using sabots, and conicals...  He had a black 10 inch steel circle he was shootin' at from a bench rest at 100 yards and had not even touched the metal...  He said he had taken seven shots already and couldn't even come close to hitting that disc...  He had a peice of cardboard behind it and stapled to the back of the legs that supported  the disc and you could see from his spotting scope where he had hit, "low and high right"...  Anyway, the conversation went on a bit and he more or less stated that if he couldn't hit that disc with his new inline, I surely wouldn't be able to with my, " traditional sidelock rifle".... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   I hit it pretty much dead center offhand, three times in a row with the good ol' patched roundball... :-D  :-D  :-D   He say's he'll be getting rid of that plastic junk real soon...    

[rollingb]

Ohio Joe,.... If you were to post this over on the MODERN-site, them fellers over ther, would claim thet ALL SHOTS fired at the range by you "two",.... were "fliers"!! :-D    :-D    

Let me be the first,... "to congratulate you, on a job well done",.... and fer show'n thet fella at the range, what a "REAL muzzleloader" can do!! :toast:  :agree:  

[Ohio Joe]

Thanks, rollingb...  I guess after some of our previous post we discussed, I "may" have been lookin' to show up one of them there plastic landfill front stuffers???  I did have basically the same oportunity last year to convert another local, but he was too far gone...  Well, we do what we can, when we can...

[Wolfhound]

Local guy out there at the range when I arrived, he was trying to zero in an, "inline", using sabots, and conicals...  He had a black 10 inch steel circle he was shootin' at from a bench rest at 100 yards and had not even touched the metal...  He said he had taken seven shots already and couldn't even come close to hitting that disc...  He had a peice of cardboard behind it and stapled to the back of the legs that supported  the disc and you could see from his spotting scope where he had hit, "low and high right"...  

Sounds like he didn't even know how to sight in a gun. Only someone who doesn't know what he's doing starts at 100 yds, 25 is far more reasonable for the first shots. He's going to get a sidelock and get ticked because he can't get it sight in either. All you did is cause someone to waste money because instead of showing them the right way, you let your prejudices get in the way. Yeah good job. :?

[rollingb]

Sounds like he didn't even know how to sight in a gun. Only someone who doesn't know what he's doing starts at 100 yds, 25 is far more reasonable for the first shots. He's going to get a sidelock and get ticked because he can't get it sight in either. All you did is cause someone to waste money because instead of showing them the right way, you let your prejudices get in the way. Yeah good job. :?

IMHO,....... anybuddy what  AIN'T "prejudiced" towards TRADITIONAL muzzleloaders,... AIN'T got no damned business on "THIS" site!! :x

Everbuddy "here" knows, thet the "right way" to sight-in a INLINE rifle is,.... "MUZZLE DOWN" in tha garden, so's it can be used fer'a "tomato stake"!!    

[Wolfhound]

IMHO,....... anybuddy what AIN'T "prejudiced" towards TRADITIONAL muzzleloaders,... AIN'T got no damned business on "THIS" site!!

So my GPR don't count huh? I'm a hybred shooter and I love both styles, but if'n that's the way you feel about it, I'll post about my GPR on the inline site. They at least don't get bent outa shape when it comes to sidelocks like ya'll do with inlines. I don't care what anyone is shooting, if I see someone having trouble regardless of whether it's an inline, sidelock or centerfire I'm allways willing to help em. All you all want to do is put em down if they ain't shooting what you think they should.

[rollingb]

So my GPR don't count huh? I'm a hybred shooter and I love both styles, but if'n that's the way you feel about it, I'll post about my GPR on the inline site. They at least don't get bent outa shape when it comes to sidelocks like ya'll do with inlines. I don't care what anyone is shooting, if I see someone having trouble regardless of whether it's an inline, sidelock or centerfire I'm allways willing to help em. All you all want to do is put em down if they ain't shooting what you think they should.

Hell I don't even think you gotta GPR,... I think you jest claim ta have one, in order to be able visit this site and tell us "traditional" shooters how "bad" we are!!!!

I'm seriously think'n 'bout buy'n the "cheapest piece'a-junk trash inline" (take yore "pick" 'cause thet "covers" ALL of'em),... jest so I can (honestly) go to the MODERN site, and tell everbuddy ther, thet they ain't nuthin but'a "BUNCH'A JERKS" (and, I'll be within my "rights" to do so, 'cause I'll have me a "new" modern inline to "cover my a$$"!!)

Ya see Wolf Hound,..... I DON'T consider my "ownership" of traditional muzzleloaders, to be my "ticket" to visit this TRADITIONAL site,.... but,.. rather, my "dedication to",.... "TRADITION guns"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's obvious thet you are MORE DEDICATED to "inlines",... even tho you (might?) own a GPR!!

Now you can go back over "ther", and tell yore buddys at the MODERN site,... thet "mean ol' rollingb" has doubts 'bout yore be'n a,..... "side-lock lover"!!  :-D    

[Thomas Krupinski]

So my GPR don't count huh? I'm a hybred shooter and I love both styles, but if'n that's the way you feel about it, I'll post about my GPR on the inline site. They at least don't get bent outa shape when it comes to sidelocks like ya'll do with inlines. I don't care what anyone is shooting, if I see someone having trouble regardless of whether it's an inline, sidelock or centerfire I'm allways willing to help em. All you all want to do is put em down if they ain't shooting what you think they should.

Hell I don't even think you gotta GPR,... I think you jest claim ta have one, in order to be able visit this site and tell us "traditional" shooters how "bad" we are!!!!

I'm seriously think'n 'bout buy'n the "cheapest piece'a-junk trash inline" (take yore "pick" 'cause thet "covers" ALL of'em),... jest so I can (honestly) go to the MODERN site, and tell everbuddy ther, thet they ain't nuthin but'a "BUNCH'A JERKS" (and, I'll be within my "rights" to do so, 'cause I'll have me a "new" modern inline to "cover my a$$"!!)

Ya see Wolf Hound,..... I DON'T consider my "ownership" of traditional muzzleloaders, to be my "ticket" to visit this TRADITIONAL site,.... but,.. rather, my "dedication to",.... "TRADITION guns"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's obvious thet you are MORE DEDICATED to "inlines",... even tho you (might?) own a GPR!!

Now you can go back over "ther", and tell yore buddys at the MODERN site,... thet "mean ol' rollingb" has doubts 'bout yore be'n a,..... "side-lock lover"!! :)  :-D  :)  :D

Maybe we should have some new catagories for posters on this site.  Perhaps instead of avid poster or contrigutor, something along the line of those religious leaders in the middle east (don't know how to spell them but one begins with I and another with M) that issue those edicts or religious orders that tell the followers how to think and toe the line.  

Seems like it would fit right in not only on the this fourm, but in a few others.  Get a life and enjoy multiple deciplines and don't get hung up on it if you can't and others can!

[rollingb]

And, maybe an extra "catagory" for "HYBREDS" with fast-twist barrels fer MODERN jacketed bullets??  

"HYBREDS",.... is jest anuther "word" fer,...... "ANYTHIN GOES"!! :shock:  :roll:    

[Roger_Dailey]

Sounds like he didn't even know how to sight in a gun. Only someone who doesn't know what he's doing starts at 100 yds, 25 is far more reasonable for the first shots. He's going to get a sidelock and get ticked because he can't get it sight in either. All you did is cause someone to waste money because instead of showing them the right way, you let your prejudices get in the way. Yeah good job. :?

Wolfhound,
   You are expressing my thoughts very well.  However, I need to remind myself that some people need something to feel good about themselves.  Even if that something is catching a one leg chicken.

[Roger_Dailey]

I'm seriously think'n 'bout buy'n the "cheapest piece'a-junk trash inline" (take yore "pick" 'cause thet "covers" ALL of'em),... jest so I can (honestly) go to the MODERN site, and tell everbuddy ther, thet they ain't nuthin but'a "BUNCH'A JERKS" (and, I'll be within my "rights" to do so, 'cause I'll have me a "new" modern inline to "cover my a$$"!!)

  You don't need to waste your money.  Your own dictates say that all you need is a jacketed bullet and/or a sabot.  Send me your address and I'll send you both.  Jacketed bullet.... $0.10, sabot $0.07, postage $0.75, entertainment value.... priceless!

[rollingb]

Sounds like he didn't even know how to sight in a gun. Only someone who doesn't know what he's doing starts at 100 yds, 25 is far more reasonable for the first shots. He's going to get a sidelock and get ticked because he can't get it sight in either. All you did is cause someone to waste money because instead of showing them the right way, you let your prejudices get in the way. Yeah good job. :?

Wolfhound,
   You are expressing my thoughts very well.  However, I need to remind myself that some people need something to feel good about themselves.  Even if that something is catching a one leg chicken.

You 2 guys sound as tho Ohio Joe "DIDN'T" help tha inline-fella with some "pointers" (he never sait thet in his post),...... it always makes me chuckle, when "SOME" experts jump to such far-fetched conclusions and start bitc#in, when they warn't even ther to see "what" happened!!  

Must be tha "MODERN WAY'A THINK'N",.... these days!!  

[Redhawk1]

I happen to shoot both an in-line and a traditional muzzleloader and have great success with both. I just don't get people that criticize other for what they choose to shoot. In my opinion, if you are in the shooting sport and criticize another gun or type of gun, you are more trouble for the sport than the anti-gunners. The anti-gunners love to here people that shoot, say that a certain gun is not practial or should not be used. As a shooting community we need to support all guns. You can not sit on the fence and pick and choose. Either you support all guns or none.

[rollingb]

I'm seriously think'n 'bout buy'n the "cheapest piece'a-junk trash inline" (take yore "pick" 'cause thet "covers" ALL of'em),... jest so I can (honestly) go to the MODERN site, and tell everbuddy ther, thet they ain't nuthin but'a "BUNCH'A JERKS" (and, I'll be within my "rights" to do so, 'cause I'll have me a "new" modern inline to "cover my a$$"!!)

  You don't need to waste your money.  Your own dictates say that all you need is a jacketed bullet and/or a sabot.  Send me your address and I'll send you both.  Jacketed bullet.... $0.10, sabot $0.07, postage $0.75, entertainment value.... priceless!

By golly Roger,.... I think yore right!! (but the "$0.75 fer postage) sounds too high, and the jacketed bullet and sabot are also a "rip-off" (IMHO),.... none of which would even make good "tomato stakes"!!

In fact it's MUCH "cheaper" for me,... to sit "RIGHT HERE" and have the "MODERN inliners" come to this TRADITIONAL muzzleloader site,.... and tell me,.... I take the word "TRADITIONAL",.. too seriously (like ther do'n now)!! :-D  :-D  

[rollingb]

I happen to shoot both an in-line and a traditional muzzleloader and have great success with both. I just don't get people that criticize other for what they choose to shoot. In my opinion, if you are in the shooting sport and criticize another gun or type of gun, you are more trouble for the sport than the anti-gunners. The anti-gunners love to here people that shoot, say that a certain gun is not practial or should not be used. As a shooting community we need to support all guns. You can not sit on the fence and pick and choose. Either you support all guns or none.

Redhawk1,.... I agree with you 100%,..... but...... I think the anti-gunners are "TOO STUPID" to realize thet these types of discussions are "NO MORE" then a small "family squabble",...... and when it come's down to "fight'n for our rights",..... we have "ALWAYS" joined together as "brothers",.... 'cause "blood is thicker'n water"!!!!  

P.S.,.... meanwhile, I think today's inlines, and MODERN "components" are pure undiluted "junk", and DO NOT fit the diffinition of "TRADITIONAL muzzleloaders" in any "way", "shape", or "form"!!  

[sabotloader]

You know the whole tone of this string is bothersome to me, I own and shoot Traditional Sidelocks (4 of them) and Inlines (4 of them).  It is true the category is lableled "Traditional" but any sidehammer qualifies for that designation, that does not mean that you have to close your eyes to the rest of the world and us "inliners" are not asking you to change your "tradition,"  There is room for both.  I really wonder if you ride a horse to work or drive car? I wonder if you use any of the modern marvels of this age or you still cooking over buffalo chips?  I wonder if you laid a flintlock, a sidehammer percussion, an inline, a 30-30, or modern bolt 30-06 at Jim Bridger's feet and said choose your weapon for defense and for hunting, what do really think Jim would have chosen?  Do you think if in this modern time he could have had his eyes repaired by a non-traditional modern method or not repaired at all be cause it was traditional, what do you think he would have chosen?

So get off your high horse and make room for more than just yourself - I hope you enjoy your sport and your activity - but don't downgrade the rest of the world because they do not follow your standards.  Being a history teacher I myself prefer the time when the Native Americans were in charge of the Americas and I am sure they would have preferred you had left you muzzeloaders in Europe where they came from.  They were unable to stop advancement and so are you.

Oh, by the way I used another non-traditional thing here a computer and even the spell checker - noticed you were using a computer also is yours a flint or percussion CPU......

[Roger_Dailey]

You 2 guys sound as tho Ohio Joe "DIDN'T" help tha inline-fella with some "pointers" (he never sait thet in his post),......

Sorry about that, guess I was mis-reading Ohio Joe's comment:

...I "may" have been lookin' to show up one of them there plastic landfill front stuffers???  ...

By golly Roger,.... I think yore right!! (but the "$0.75 fer postage) sounds too high, and the jacketed bullet and sabot are also a "rip-off"

The treat's on me.   All you have to do is open the door and let your light shine.

[rollingb]

Sabotloader,..... My computer is "flint", and it ain't got'a "spel checker"!! :wink:

See'ns as this site is "geared" to TRADITIONAL Muzzleloading Rifles & Shotguns,.... don't you agree thet these are the things we should discuss here, UNLESS or UNTIL this site is geared towards:.....

TRADITIONAL Transportation

TRADITIONAL Methods of Cooking

TRADITIONAL Automobiles

TRADITIONAL Native American Weapons

TRADITIONAL Computers

TRADITIONAL Medicine

..... git my "point" yet?

If you are a History Teacher,.... I'd think this would be obvious to you!!
BTW,... how many hours do you donate to provide'n "hands-on" demostrations/siminars 'bout "TRADITIONAL MUZZLELOADERS" to the kids you teach??.... I've donated 43 hours so far (since the 1st. of this year) to the local 7th. graders!!

I have "TRADITIONAL" Blackpowder Cartridge Rifles with fast-twist barrels for heavy conical cast bullets, and I don't talk 'bout'em here on this site 'cause "I" don't think it's the "proper site" for such discussions,........ DO YOU?

You fellas could change my mind 'bout WHAT "I" think is TRADITIONAL,..... by simpley show'n me an "ORIGINAL", half-stock or full-stock muzzleloader thet had a fast-twist barrel,..faster'n 1:48... and was determined to shoot roundballs prior to 1840,....!!

While yore look'n,... remember thet I have NEVER said,.... thet I don't consider "COPIES" of historical Civil War small-arms as "non-traditional" for ther "time-period" (or "post 1840")!!

I'm look'n forwards to this future history-lesson thet can "verify/prove" thet a rifle  simular to  Lyman's GPH "fast-twist barrel" was/is actualy "traditional"!!

[rollingb]

Roger,.... Wher's "Joe's" qoute,.... thet said he refused to "give advice" on "sight'n in"

[Ohio Joe]

Sounds like I pushed some buttons out there...  So be it!!!  Help was offered along with freindly advice...  Sure, I rang his gong three times in a row, and he too finally rang the gong 2 out of 3 times with my,,, my rifle!!!  If I'm guilty of you, "inline loving folks" out there loosing a fellow inliner to real traditional craftsman and riflemanship, so be it!!!  Do you inline lovers really believe the advertisements, "accurate right out of the box?"  As far as, "zeroing in", those were his words, not mine!  As far as him staying in the shooting sport, he's looking to buy a, .50 GPR, 1-60 twist...  Least that is what he told me today...  "Inliner's", you lost this one!  Live with it!!!

[rollingb]

Joe,.... Thet "pilgrim" you took unner yore wing, is darned lucky to have you around!! :toast:

I think some'a the inline-fellas have NO any idea of the huge amount of advice, tutor'n, and "loans" (of our personal rifleguns),... thet us "crusty'n mean ole'farts",... actualy give to young'uns (under tha age'a 30) whenever the "opportunity presents itself"!!

It was the local middle-school's history teacher, thet lives jest down the gravel street from me,.... thet came up with the suggestion thet I do some siminars for his students. He had never fired a traditional muzzleloader in his life, 'til he shot one'a mine last year,... now he always makes sure at least 30 days "in advance" thet I'll be available to share some time, and 'arms, with him and his students!!

[Roger_Dailey]

Roger,.... Wher's "Joe's" qoute,.... thet said he refused to "give advice" on "sight'n in"

Gee, I thought I answered that question above, but I guess not.  Here it is again;

You 2 guys sound as tho Ohio Joe "DIDN'T" help tha inline-fella with some "pointers" (he never sait thet in his post),......

Sorry about that, guess I was mis-reading Ohio Joe's comment:

...I "may" have been lookin' to show up one of them there plastic landfill front stuffers???  ...

[sabotloader]

Rollingb, Gee! I had to go up in the attic to confirm it but my Lyman and my Thompson say "Traditional Muzzeloader" on the boxes...

[rollingb]

Roger,.... Yore "come'n up short" in tha qoute-department!!  

I "STILL" don't see wher Ole'Joe said he refused to help the guy!!

I might not be,... "tha sharpest knife in tha drawer",.... but the way I read Joe's post is,.... it says thet he may have been look'n to "OUT-SHOOT" the modern piece'a junk inline,.... but nowher's do I see him say,...... thet no help was offered "over the course of time" they were both at the range!!!!

Some folks seem to enjoy "READ'N STUFF" into anuther's post, jest fer tha "SAKE OF ARGUMENT",.... then turn 'round and make STUPID accusations!!!! (.... and, thet's exactly what it is if you cain't "qoute VERBATIM"!!)

Like Joe says,... you inliner's have lost thet feller,.... LIVE WITH IT!!  

[rollingb]

Sabotloader,.....  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  OK!!.. I guess, I should'a thot to look "THER" first,.. instead of these books I've have on old original muzzleloaders!! :-D  :-D  :-D  

[Ohio Joe]

"Roger_Dailey",,,   Probably not the best choice of words in my second comment, "to show up"....  Guess that's the, "grunt corporal" still in me from the early '70's...  However,,, I don't like, "inlines", never have, never will!  I feel it will be the ruination of traditional muzzle loading...  I'm from the old school when it comes to front stuffers...  To all who supported my comments, I thank you...  Like the mountain men before us, it appears we're gettin' pushed to the side again by modern civilization...  Well, we need to keep a strong stand for traditional muzzle loading!

[Ohio Joe]

"rollingb",,,   Thanks, and keep up the good work with the kids.  I'm sure they appreciate what you do, and enjoy seeing and experiencing true traditional muzzle loading...    

[Ohio Joe]

"Thomas Krupinski",,,  I read your post and agree with you 110%   Why is it so hard for these inline shooters to except the fact that an inline is NOT a traditional muzzle loader???

[Thomas Krupinski]

That's right Joe, they certainly are not.  They are just another piece of equipment that has it's place just like any other.  They can be shot with "traditional" components or with modern, just like the traditional muzzleloaders can also be shot using either.  Just because they are optimized for one over another it does not make it taboo.

Like to play around with stuff, and will probably try patched round ball with blackpowder in my Encore barrel along with conicals that I cast when I get around to shooting it, right now that frame is on some other assignments.  If you probably saw my other thread on casting sabbots I may at some time try that just to see if it can be done.  

I enjoy my flintlock shooting patched round ball, my percussion sidelocks as well as my recurve and compound bows.  I hunt with both of them also and with the bow I also mix feather fletched modern carbons arrows with the recurve bow and that also offends some of the traditionalists.  Well I could give a rat's ass less if it does.  Don't consider it a crime against tradition or even care.

Now if someone else wants to get enjoyment from imitating to whatever level they choose, a lifestyle or portions of a lifestyle, from some time ago, more power to them and I hope they have a good time with it.  However I don't think they should be criticized or do the same for anyone who chooses not to or mix and match tools from different periods.  The two camps are not mutually exclusive unless and individual wants to make it that way for themselves.  Now that's just my take on it.

[rollingb]

"rollingb",,,   Thanks, and keep up the good work with the kids.  I'm sure they appreciate what you do, and enjoy seeing and experiencing true traditional muzzle loading...    

Ohio Joe,...... Seem's tha history teacher must'a gave them students my name'n address,.... I recieved 32 .... "THANK YOU cards",.... in tha mail!!  :-D  

Them liddle rascals even gave me'a "NEW" 1st. name,........ "Mr." (.... and, it's gonna take some "git'n used to"!!) :eek:    

P.S.,.... Anybuddy know if I'm obligated to send ,..."YORE WELCOME cards",..... back to all them young'uns?