Author Topic: Space X goes BOOM!  (Read 955 times)

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Offline guzzijohn

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Space X goes BOOM!
« on: April 20, 2023, 03:57:46 AM »
Best non-political double speak I can recall...

Quote
"Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unplanned disassembly," an official said on the broadcast.

GuzziJohn
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Offline magooch

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2023, 05:18:57 AM »
What an absolute waste of time, money and effort.  We live on the only planet in our solar system that is actually habitable and apparently there are a few who want to leave.  This is insanity.  If one dollar of tax money is spent on this stupid project it is criminal.
Swingem

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2023, 06:29:39 AM »
Best non-political double speak I can recall...

Quote
"Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unplanned disassembly," an official said on the broadcast.

GuzziJohn
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/04/20/science/spacex-launch-starship-rocket
I think the Mars bit is silly but I am glad he is doing it.
He realizes you go to the Moon first, and this helps restore Moon exploration.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2023, 09:14:09 AM »
Best non-political double speak I can recall...

Quote
"Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unplanned disassembly," an official said on the broadcast.

GuzziJohn

  ..Not double-speak but engineer talk.  I noticed that some on the web find humor in this ship exploding.  I see no humor here..nor it the challenger disaster, where a crew of 6 were killed even before a 4 minute time elapsed..or the Columbia breakup, where 6 more were incinerated.
  None were funny, not the Apollo 13 crew, who came home on a prayer..or early in the apollo program, where Gus Grissom and a couple others died even before takeoff.

   No such disaster is funny.. but Spacex seems to be accomplishing much more, for far less than the usual "gubmint program".

  ..And nobody died with this breakup, at least..

  ..But then,private industry can usually beat government at almost any game.... at any time.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2023, 09:42:02 AM »
agreed
What an absolute waste of time, money and effort.  We live on the only planet in our solar system that is actually habitable and apparently there are a few who want to leave.  This is insanity.  If one dollar of tax money is spent on this stupid project it is criminal.
blue lives matter

Offline Dee

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2023, 09:53:27 AM »
I don't care what is on the moon, Mars, or Canada. Been to all the lower 48 multiple times, and only saw anything that really interested me in maybe 3 of'em.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2023, 12:26:41 PM »
  ..But then,private industry can usually beat government at almost any game.... at any time.

Most gubmint agencies are full of bureaucracies
where each person in each level has to lay
hands on in order to justify their jobs no
matter how insignificant their involvement
and contribution is,
kinda like the USPS
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2023, 01:46:21 PM »
  ..But then,private industry can usually beat government at almost any game.... at any time.

I say private industry can beat government all the time, at any game. Government has no incentive to do anything efficiently. So there are always millions and billions of wasted money in anything they are involved in. On the other hand private industry does it with less money, more efficiently, and does it better. If they don't they will no longer be in business. 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2023, 03:15:56 PM »
NASA's big new rocket costs taxpayers $4 billion per launch.  This rocket SpaceX built with their own money, costs about $200 million per launch.  NASA's rocket puts 95 tons into space with 8 million pounds of thrust.  SpaceX's new rocket is 16.7 million pounds of thrust and can put 150 tons into space and is fully reusable.  Sure it has problems, but SpaceX will work them out. 

Meanwhile SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket has launched and landed 186 times and is on par to launch 80-90 times this year alone.  It only puts about 20 tons into Space, but is the worlds workhorse for satellite launches, astronaut launches, and space station resupply.  Most of the launches is putting Starlink satellites up to have world wide internet coverage, especially in rural and remote areas.  Starlink alone right now makes SpaceX $1 billion per year in profits which they are throwing into this new Starship rocket development. 

Back in 2012, Lockheed and Boeing and even NASA told SpaceX they were wasting their time trying to land a rocket booster.  They blew up plenty, even had 2 Falcon 9's blow up early on.  They worked out the bugs and now it is the most reliable rocket (Falcon 9) on earth.  Musk doesn't give up, he will get the Starship operational, probably by the end of the year.  He already has several already built.  He waited almost 2 years to get FAA approval to launch. 

Musk wants to colonize Mars because it has almost every raw material earth has except wood.  Plants can be grown in greenhouses.  Mars has a 24-12 hour day similar to earth and it has water but all frozen.  The moon basically has no water.  He said he would help NASA get back to the moon with Starship, and they want to use Starship for their lander on the moon because it can take 150 tons of supplies.  One potential option for Starship is that it can hold 100 passengers if they wanted too, thus carrying colonists to Mars in the future.  Starship will be built in 3 options.  Cargo, crew, and tanker to refuel in orbit for travel to the moon or Mars.  He also wants Starship to launch 200-300 Starlink satellites at a time, not the 40 or so with Falcon 9.  He has approval from the FAA to launch 36,000 Starlink satellites.  He only has launched around 2,500 so far using Falcon 9. 

Starlink cost $500 for a satellite dish the size of a pizza, that is pointed straight up flat.  It cost around $100 a month for internet access which includes streaming TV and is working with T-mobile to make a satellite cell phone to call anywhere with no dead zones.  They have as of January over 1 million Starlink subscribers.  Some countries won't allow him to sell the service, such as Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran, and Cuba.  Some African countries and Middle Eastern countries. However, it has been reported that some have smuggled Starlinks into Russia and Iran.  Ukraine has used them connected to drones as weapons against Russia. 
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2023, 04:03:10 PM »
  ..But then,private industry can usually beat government at almost any game.... at any time.

I say private industry can beat government all the time, at any game. Government has no incentive to do anything efficiently. So there are always millions and billions of wasted money in anything they are involved in. On the other hand private industry does it with less money, more efficiently, and does it better. If they don't they will no longer be in business.
Back when there were a LOT of companies capable of aero/space projects it was a matter of bidding while showing product, so costs were down due to competition.

Now they have merged or ceased to exist so there is near zero competition
Beating the Chinese to having a station on the Moon is VERY , VERY important; if China was not going there there would probably not be a woth while space program but  rather wasted money on the space station.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2023, 12:32:41 AM »

NASA's big new rocket costs taxpayers $4 billion per launch.  This rocket SpaceX built with their own money, costs about $200 million per launch.  NASA's rocket puts 95 tons into space with 8 million pounds of thrust.  SpaceX's new rocket is 16.7 million pounds of thrust and can put 150 tons into space and is fully reusable.  Sure it has problems, but SpaceX will work them out.

   ^^^THERE^^   Bob said it straight...(correction, DD said it straight)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2023, 01:22:54 AM »
What a big waste of money. To bad there was never any money found for a missile defense system in this country.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2023, 02:48:34 AM »
What a big waste of money. To bad there was never any money found for a missile defense system in this country.

  If you recall, it wasn't lack of funds, but the Democrats morbid fear and hatred of Pres Reagan which shut down his SDI (strategic defense initiative).

  https://www.newsmax.com/henryfcooper/sdi-strategic-defense-initiative-star-wars-reagan/2022/03/22/id/1062329/?fbclid=IwAR0GvmKIE6X-5rfGabuBFhm38pQ9YJp1NvaxVb6hiyuCr
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)
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Offline GTS225

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2023, 03:24:12 AM »
Call me an extreme whacko, but;

NASA's big new rocket costs taxpayers $4 billion per launch.  This rocket SpaceX built with their own money, costs about $200 million per launch.  NASA's rocket puts 95 tons into space with 8 million pounds of thrust.  SpaceX's new rocket is 16.7 million pounds of thrust and can put 150 tons into space and is fully reusable.  Sure it has problems, but SpaceX will work them out. 

Meanwhile SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket has launched and landed 186 times and is on par to launch 80-90 times this year alone.  It only puts about 20 tons into Space, but is the worlds workhorse for satellite launches, astronaut launches, and space station resupply.  Most of the launches is putting Starlink satellites up to have world wide internet coverage, especially in rural and remote areas.  Starlink alone right now makes SpaceX $1 billion per year in profits which they are throwing into this new Starship rocket development.

Might I suggest some of you read a fictional novel titled "Star Driver", by Lee Correy?

Back in 2012, Lockheed and Boeing and even NASA told SpaceX they were wasting their time trying to land a rocket booster.  They blew up plenty, even had 2 Falcon 9's blow up early on.  They worked out the bugs and now it is the most reliable rocket (Falcon 9) on earth.  Musk doesn't give up, he will get the Starship operational, probably by the end of the year.  He already has several already built.  He waited almost 2 years to get FAA approval to launch. 

I suspect that was them trying to protect thier own monopoly on the space program.  Lots of money involved.

He also wants Starship to launch 200-300 Starlink satellites at a time, not the 40 or so with Falcon 9.  He has approval from the FAA to launch 36,000 Starlink satellites.  He only has launched around 2,500 so far using Falcon 9. 

Hmmmmm.  Think "Independence Day" with Will Smith.

Some countries won't allow him to sell the service, such as Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran, and Cuba.  Some African countries and Middle Eastern countries. However, it has been reported that some have smuggled Starlinks into Russia and Iran.

Maybe because they suspect that the U.S. could use it against them at sometime in the future?

  Ukraine has used them connected to drones as weapons against Russia.

Which also suggests that the U.S. government could use them against thier own citizens at some time.

I am still of the opinion that "we" know nowhere near as much as we could about our own planet, but "we" feel the need to transplant our human nastiness to other worlds.  Damn shame, it is.

Roger

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2023, 03:33:10 AM »
I saw a picture of the launch mount and pad underneath.  A huge section of concrete was blown out.  They think some of the flying debris hit 6 engines out of the 33 engines and knocked them out.  Musk has already tweeted they were going to build a flame trench.  Also, most large rockets have a water deluge system spraying around the base right before ignition.  This helps keep down any debris and helps keep the heat from damaging anything.  This rocket with all engines igniting is 16,700,000 lbs of thrust. 
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2023, 05:43:54 AM »
What a big waste of money. To bad there was never any money found for a missile defense system in this country.

  If you recall, it wasn't lack of funds, but the Democrats morbid fear and hatred of Pres Reagan which shut down his SDI (strategic defense initiative).

  https://www.newsmax.com/henryfcooper/sdi-strategic-defense-initiative-star-wars-reagan/2022/03/22/id/1062329/?fbclid=IwAR0GvmKIE6X-5rfGabuBFhm38pQ9YJp1NvaxVb6hiyuCr

I should have worded it differently. We certainly had the money for a missile defense system. I'm sure a lot of the money was spent on buying votes. From democrats and republicans alike.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2023, 11:53:12 PM »
maybe we can cut a deal with russia and china. leave the people on earth alone and we will give you each half of the moon. then sit back and watch them fight over rocks and dirt
  ..But then,private industry can usually beat government at almost any game.... at any time.

I say private industry can beat government all the time, at any game. Government has no incentive to do anything efficiently. So there are always millions and billions of wasted money in anything they are involved in. On the other hand private industry does it with less money, more efficiently, and does it better. If they don't they will no longer be in business.
Back when there were a LOT of companies capable of aero/space projects it was a matter of bidding while showing product, so costs were down due to competition.

Now they have merged or ceased to exist so there is near zero competition
Beating the Chinese to having a station on the Moon is VERY , VERY important; if China was not going there there would probably not be a woth while space program but  rather wasted money on the space station.
blue lives matter
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2023, 04:16:50 AM »
I don't think the moon will ever be colonized, but only be a mining colony with rotating miners back and forth from earth, as the moon is only 3 days from earth via a rocket.  Water will also have to be brought to the moon for the humans doing the mining.  Mars on the other hand does have water as well as minerals and a carbon dioxide atmosphere which is good for plants.  NASA examined some of the soil where one of the landers was and it would be good for growing potatoes.  Green houses would have to be used on Mars due to the artic type cold conditions.  So yeah, Mars could be colonized.  A lot of equipment would have to be taken to Mars such as mining, smelting, making metals, building greenhouses and domed cities before it could be independent of earth. 

Musk has been considering launching this big rocket off an offshore platform, which may have to happen due to the tremendous power.  The rocket uses liquid methane (natural gas) and liquid oxygen made from air to power it.  Musk has been working on making natural gas from air and water called the Sabatier process.  Splitting carbon dioxide to get the carbon and splitting water to get the hydrogen, then combining them to make natural gas or methane.  He would be taking this equipment to Mars on the first robotic missions to make fuel for the first human crew to return to earth.  They would land where water has been found in Mars' northern hemisphere, drill into the ice and melt the water and use the air for the carbon dioxide.  This can also be used on earth but would require power.  The Mars rocket will take solar panels for their power source.  If you notice, Musk's companies makes electric cars which will be used for Mars trucks and travel vehicles, he makes solar panels, which can also be used on Mars.  His brother is growing food in shipping containers in New York to supply restaurants with vegetables, using LED grow lights in the containers.  This too will be used on Mars.  They are working out all the problems on earth in the meantime. 

Also to finance this is Starlink.  For every million customers he makes $1 billion in profit.  He expects by the time he gets all his satellites operational; he might have 100 million customers for a 100 billion profit a year.  Some business people believe Musk may end up being the worlds first trillionaire when Starlink is completed.  He hopes by 2050 (if the world lasts that long) he might have 1 million people living on Mars. 
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Space X goes BOOM!
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2023, 05:07:12 AM »
I saw a picture of the launch mount and pad underneath.  A huge section of concrete was blown out.  They think some of the flying debris hit 6 engines out of the 33 engines and knocked them out.  Musk has already tweeted they were going to build a flame trench.  Also, most large rockets have a water deluge system spraying around the base right before ignition.  This helps keep down any debris and helps keep the heat from damaging anything.  This rocket with all engines igniting is 16,700,000 lbs of thrust.
Musk is learning the hard way, but he said before the launch he expected a fifty fifty chance of success.