Author Topic: The electric grid challenge  (Read 491 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.


Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2023, 09:35:05 AM »
Are we up to it?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/12/climate/us-electric-grid-energy-transition.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

  Why should we be ready to back some hare-brained scheme, dreamed up by revolutionary Marxists, as a way to gain power?

  Why should we adopt their pet conspiracy theory ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline TrumpWon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2023, 12:29:40 PM »
Right, a hare-brained scheme based on only a century of scientific evidence miraculously forming the structural backbone of today's civilization.

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus.amp

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2023, 01:18:26 PM »
Right, a hare-brained scheme based on only a century of scientific evidence miraculously forming the structural backbone of today's civilization.

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus.amp
  Sure....
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie-Dude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2023, 01:58:48 PM »
NASA has become an over-bloated government bureaucracy in need of a mission, just like most all government bureaucracies, including the military.  NASA has spent 20 billion dollars and over 10 years developing their new SLS rocket.  It can do 95 tons to low earth orbit (LEO).  It can't even do what Saturn V could do back in the 1960's, 140 tons to LEO.  SpaceX is developing their Starship which can do 150 tons to LEO and is to be fully reusable.  Of course, their first launch was not successful, but they learned a lot.  Even their workhorse Falcon 9 rocket had a few problems early on, but now has over 200 successful launches and over 125 successful landings and has the most launches of any rocket in history.  Anyway, SpaceX has spent about 6 years and $5 billion of their own mony developing Starship.  They have 4-5 under construction at Boca Chica, Texas right now.  NASA's SLS cost $4 billion to launch one rocket, and they can only afford to launch it once a year.  The Starship costs about $200 million to build one and they can launch multiple times a year because it will be reusable.  Next orbital test launch is about 2 months away.  Once they work the bugs out, it will make SLS obsolete and wasted tax dollars. 

SpaceX is launching Starlink satellites, and brings in about $1.5 billion a year now in profit with Starlink internet systems, and they are still getting new customers worldwide.  Anyway all the profit is going into building and making the Starship operational. 

I say all this to say, one reason NASA is bloated is they try to have something to do or build in a lot of states and congressional districts.  They are not always right.  Many countries have said the UN has given the wrong ground temperatures by 1 or 2 degrees to NASA.  NASA can't do and read everything.  Man does not contribute to the weather changes as much as some people believe.  There is also the sun, solar minimum and maximum, solar flares, earth tilt, poles shifting, volcanic eruptions.  One volcanic eruption can spew out as much carbon dioxide as all of human activity for a year.  During dinosaur times, the earth was much hotter, and wetter.  It was more like tropics world wide.  Even if the world warmed up some, you can grow crops in higher latitudes than you can now. 

I am not against alternative energy if it is cost effective.  Lots of solar is available in the Southwest.  Lots of wind in the plains.  However, not as many people live in the deserts or plains.  Power produced here still has to get to where the people live and thus the problem, no transmission lines.  Also, no cheap storage of excess solar and wind when it is not being used so the storage can be released when the demand is there. 

If you really want to get rid of coal and natural gas, you have to go nuclear power to get the power where the people live.  Electric cars have to get cheaper, have longer range, and faster charging times, before they will really take over. 
Opelika Portal

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18273
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2023, 11:08:25 PM »
i could open that link unless i paid money. that alone sends up flags. that said we can put up thousands of wind and solar generation facility's but we have a electrical grid that wont handle it. thats take CA. they are connected to a couple states but still have brown outs. its because there electrical system is so over taxed that its like trying to use a welder using 20 cheap extension cords on a 10 amp circuit. you lose so much voltage that you welder struggles to even run (brown out) and when you pull the trigger you pull so many amps that either the cords melt or you kick your fuse. that is where ca is today and the same goes for many places. as to the grid not being one single unit that answer is yes and no. every state is connected. i dont know a single state that isnt connected to another. so yes its all one thing but all utilitys aren't required to sell power so if they dont give a crap about making money they can isolate themselves but it would be suicide for them because unlike any other industry the government controls the purse strings. thet control what you local electric company can charge you for power. so open your tie then its good luck getting you rate raised again. This is to the point in this country that its an epidemic. we basically have the same grid we had 50 years ago and look how much more today we use electricity. russia and  china are fast tracking construction of coal fired power plats and the idiots in DC are more concerned with planting flower. who do you see winning there. remember i actually worked on that grid in a number of states and saw first hand the falling down junk. china doesnt need an emp to destroy our grid. if we dont start massive upgrades we will do it to our selves. we will pay higher taxes or electrical rates or both. some pour sob that gets elected as soon as 24 is going to have to break the news your taxes are going up ALOT because every president democratic or republican before him ignored the problem because facing it is going to piss of some voters. this should have started in the 70s and been done without the sticker shock were going to see today. even if work began today it will take decades. heck power companies cant even find enough people today that are willing to be lineman let alone construction companies. a job that you can easily bring home a 6 figure income. dont much care what your self proclaimed experts say. ive been there and worked in the mess for 30 years.
blue lives matter

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2023, 02:06:47 AM »
NASA has become an over-bloated government bureaucracy in need of a mission, just like most all government bureaucracies, including the military.  NASA has spent 20 billion dollars and over 10 years developing their new SLS rocket.  It can do 95 tons to low earth orbit (LEO).  It can't even do what Saturn V could do back in the 1960's, 140 tons to LEO.  SpaceX is developing their Starship which can do 150 tons to LEO and is to be fully reusable.  Of course, their first launch was not successful, but they learned a lot.  Even their workhorse Falcon 9 rocket had a few problems early on, but now has over 200 successful launches and over 125 successful landings and has the most launches of any rocket in history.  Anyway, SpaceX has spent about 6 years and $5 billion of their own mony developing Starship.  They have 4-5 under construction at Boca Chica, Texas right now.  NASA's SLS cost $4 billion to launch one rocket, and they can only afford to launch it once a year.  The Starship costs about $200 million to build one and they can launch multiple times a year because it will be reusable.  Next orbital test launch is about 2 months away.  Once they work the bugs out, it will make SLS obsolete and wasted tax dollars. 

SpaceX is launching Starlink satellites, and brings in about $1.5 billion a year now in profit with Starlink internet systems, and they are still getting new customers worldwide.  Anyway all the profit is going into building and making the Starship operational. 

I say all this to say, one reason NASA is bloated is they try to have something to do or build in a lot of states and congressional districts.  They are not always right.  Many countries have said the UN has given the wrong ground temperatures by 1 or 2 degrees to NASA.  NASA can't do and read everything.  Man does not contribute to the weather changes as much as some people believe.  There is also the sun, solar minimum and maximum, solar flares, earth tilt, poles shifting, volcanic eruptions.  One volcanic eruption can spew out as much carbon dioxide as all of human activity for a year.  During dinosaur times, the earth was much hotter, and wetter.  It was more like tropics world wide.  Even if the world warmed up some, you can grow crops in higher latitudes than you can now. 

I am not against alternative energy if it is cost effective.  Lots of solar is available in the Southwest.  Lots of wind in the plains.  However, not as many people live in the deserts or plains.  Power produced here still has to get to where the people live and thus the problem, no transmission lines.  Also, no cheap storage of excess solar and wind when it is not being used so the storage can be released when the demand is there. 

If you really want to get rid of coal and natural gas, you have to go nuclear power to get the power where the people live.  Electric cars have to get cheaper, have longer range, and faster charging times, before they will really take over.


      ^^^BINGO^^^

   The left is all about "the science".  So they claim the earth occurred a few billion years ago. ....Oops!, I almost said the earth was "created".

  Anyway according to them, the earth happened a few billion years ago...   I think we all realize the climate is continually changing, as it did
    throughout recorded history. 
   We have had warming periods..witness Greenland between AD 1000 and AD 1500...We have also had some mini ice ages, one of which caused
  widespread grain failures in Europe, which eventually brought down the royal house of France ( Marie Antoinette.."let them eat cake")

  In spite of these know and recorded events, some of today's "scirntists" claim they can observe for 40 years and declare a global warming event !

   Not only that, but ignoring solar activities & sun spots, under ocean volcanic events, and myriad other natural causes, these "scientists" 
   deign to blame the activities of mankind, and most exclusively, they tend to blame we Americans.

  It is a known fact that China, Russia and India all produce far more pollutants that the USA, but when was the last time these jokers banded
     together to blame these three leaders?

  Sad indeed, but I must reiterate below:

  I FOLLOWED THE MONEY, (and politics) AND THAT'S WHERE i FOUND THE SCIENCE..
   

 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Online Mule 11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5102
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2023, 04:08:04 AM »
“ it’s easy for science to fool its own practitioners “

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18273
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2023, 04:15:17 AM »
“ it’s easy for science to fool its own practitioners “

yup for every scientist that you can find that says something is fact you can find another that says its bs
blue lives matter

Offline Dixie-Dude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2023, 11:37:11 AM »
Going "green" isn't going to happen as fast as the greenies want.  For instance West Texas windmills can produce a lot of electricity, but they can't get but about 17% of what they produce to East Texas where the most people live.  They have to build the transmission lines, which crosses a lot of property, which requires buying a lot of Right Of Way, which takes time, a lot of time.  This is the same problem with ALL the windmills in the plains states, getting the power to where it is needed.  Not going to happen overnight.  Then there is storage needed for any excess power that is not transmitted, and this storage capacity will cost far more than the windmills and the transmission lines. 

The same is true for solar.  Solar is better when install right where it is needed, like on top of buildings, parking lots and roofs.  This also requires permission from owners that may require discounts on power if they use the solar. 

Nuclear requires a smaller footprint and can be built near existing transmission lines.  So does a gas or coal fired power plant.  Nuclear also requires cooling water, except some small scale nuclear reactors, or thorium reactors. 
Opelika Portal

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2023, 11:56:58 AM »
Going "green" isn't going to happen as fast as the greenies want.  For instance West Texas windmills can produce a lot of electricity, but they can't get but about 17% of what they produce to East Texas where the most people live.  They have to build the transmission lines, which crosses a lot of property, which requires buying a lot of Right Of Way, which takes time, a lot of time.  This is the same problem with ALL the windmills in the plains states, getting the power to where it is needed.  Not going to happen overnight.  Then there is storage needed for any excess power that is not transmitted, and this storage capacity will cost far more than the windmills and the transmission lines. 

The same is true for solar.  Solar is better when install right where it is needed, like on top of buildings, parking lots and roofs.  This also requires permission from owners that may require discounts on power if they use the solar. 

Nuclear requires a smaller footprint and can be built near existing transmission lines.  So does a gas or coal fired power plant.  Nuclear also requires cooling water, except some small scale nuclear reactors, or thorium reactors.

  ..But DD you miss their basic politic...  When the Communist left takes over.. there will no longer be any 'personal property", so the all hallowed
   government, can do as they wish.
   Only a very few will actually own anything..they being the WEF oligharchs of Davos.

  Keep in mind the statement from Davos..  "YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY"  of course, when that happens, the oligarchs can then claim... 
       "WE WILL OWN ALMOST EVERYTHING AND BE VERY HAPPY."
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6186
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2023, 01:12:00 PM »
“ it’s easy for science to fool its own practitioners “

yup for every scientist that you can find that says something is fact you can find another that says its bs

Most all the climate scientists have been bought and paid for by the globalists.  Then all the ignorant people in this country believe everything they say. Its all in the plan. Get at least all the ignorant people on board, and the transfer of wealth will be easy.  I believe man has anything to do with climate as much as I believe there are green men living on Uranus.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26946
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2023, 05:22:28 PM »
Quote
I believe there are green men living on Uranus.

I have it on good authority from the ETs that visit me from time to time that everyone on Uranus are blue, cuz their butts are frozen.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!
Funny Funny x 1 View List

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18273
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2023, 12:11:21 AM »
all gay men too
Quote
I believe there are green men living on Uranus.

I have it on good authority from the ETs that visit me from time to time that everyone on Uranus are blue, cuz their butts are frozen.
blue lives matter

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2023, 01:20:13 AM »
all gay men too
Quote
I believe there are green men living on Uranus.

I have it on good authority from the ETs that visit me from time to time that everyone on Uranus are blue, cuz their butts are frozen.

  That is surprising...  The Davos mob doesn't need them to be gay, since they are frozen blue, and can't reproduce anyway !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline gypsyman

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4853
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2023, 03:58:11 AM »
Article wouldn't open for me, and I'm not going to subscribe to a left wing toilet paper organization. People on Uranus can use it on their blue butts!! As far as can the grid handle it, not in our lifetime. Maybe in 50-70 years. Less than a year ago, state of California was telling their people, don't plug in your electric cars, our power supply can't handle it. And the percentage of electric cars today is less than 1%. YEA, good luck with the power grid-IF- we ever get to just 10% of the cars being electric. Factor in semi's and tractors, I wont hold my breath!!
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline DDZ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6186
  • Gender: Male
Re: The electric grid challenge
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2023, 05:02:44 AM »
No plans on upgrading the electric grid, or adding nuclear power plants. Instead lots of plans by the climate wackos, and the globalists to reduce population. 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn