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Offline Graybeard

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The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« on: July 07, 2023, 11:02:39 AM »
https://www.budsgunshop.com/blog.php/post/top-ten-handgun-cartridges

From soda can punchers to bear stoppers, this list runs down the best handgun cartridges currently on the market

Brad Fitzpatrick May 18, 2023

Handguns serve a variety of roles. Most commonly, handguns are used for personal protection because they are easy to conceal and comfortable to carry. Pistols and revolvers make a suitable option for defense against large predators like bears and mountain lions, and some prefer to hunt large and small game with a handgun instead of a long gun. Organizations like the IDPA (International Defense Pistol Association) sanction competitions across the country each year, and even beginners can attend and shoot these matches to improve their skills with a firearm.

Perhaps the most compelling reason to own a handgun, though, is that they are fun to shoot. Spending an afternoon puncturing pop cans with a rimfire revolver in the back yard is relaxing and enjoyable, and it’s a sport that people of all ages and skill levels can enjoy so long as they understand and follow basic firearms safety guidelines.

Perhaps you’re looking to purchase a handgun for any one (or all) of these reasons and you simply aren’t certain what gun is right for you. This guide to the top ten handgun cartridges should help you select a firearm that is chambered for the proper cartridge to fit your needs. Here’s a closer look at the ten best cartridges available today.

22 Long Rifle

Benefits: Low recoil and muzzle blast, affordable ammunition is widely available.

The 22 Long Rifle, or 22 LR, is a rimfire cartridge dating back to the nineteenth century, making it the oldest round on this list. But the mild-mannered 22 has hung around so long because it’s fun to shoot and very affordable. If you’re a savvy shopper, you can pick up 22 LR ammunition for about a dime a round, which is a quarter of what you’ll pay for factory 9mm ammo. There are also plenty of handguns chambered for 22 LR, everything from pocket pistols to full-sized semi-auto target guns and revolvers. The first handgun I ever shot was a Ruger Mark II in 22 LR; the second was a Smith & Wesson K-22 Masterpiece revolver. My father still owns both those guns, and I own a half-dozen 22 handguns of my own.

The 22s is perfect for both new and experienced shooters, and there’s not a better training round. If you’re the competitive type, you can try your hand at Rimfire Challenge competitions, and 22s are suitable for hunting small game and dispatching vermin. The 22 LR is generally considered too light for personal defense, but there are those who carry them, and Federal recently unveiled their 22 LR Punch ammunition that’s the standout option for anyone who opts to protect themselves with a 22. But ultimately the primary reason to buy a 22 is because they’re loads of fun to shoot, and that should be all the reason you need.

380 ACP

Benefits: Suitable for self-defense but mild recoil, fits in small guns, generous magazine capacity.

The 380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) was designed by John Browning and released in 1908. At that time, many pocket pistols were chambered in 22, 25, or 32-caliber rounds, so the 380 ACP wasn’t considered a pipsqueak. By today’s standards, though, the .380 ACP (or .380 Auto) is overshadowed by the more powerful 9mm Luger, the .40 S&W, the new 30 Super Carry, and others. Still, the .380 ACP is well-suited for its intended purpose, which is primarily to be chambered in small, light, concealable semi-auto pistols for easy transport. Many .380 semi-autos weigh less than 20 ounces, but this round is milder than the 9mm so recoil is considerably less. The .380 is considered suitable for beginners.

For years some experts have argued that the .380 was underpowered for personal defense, but the cartridge benefits from much-improved defensive bullets that wring out every last foot-pound of energy. And if you really need a light gun for personal defense, the .380 is a good option. I generally carry a firearm when I run trails around home, and I’ve found that a light 380 is much easier to tote in a waist pack or belly band than a 9mm. Ammo and firearms are widely available and relatively affordable, so this popular cartridge deserves a spot on our list.

9mm Luger

Benefits: Ample stopping power, hundreds of firearm and ammunition options, manageable recoil

The 9mm Luger has set the standard for self-defense rounds. Firing bullets from 100- to 147-grains at velocities of 1,000 to 1,300 feet per second, the 9mm is the favorite choice of concealed-carry permit holders and law-enforcement agencies. But this hasn’t always been the case. In the 1980s, the 9mm was considered underpowered and led to the creation of the 40 Smith & Wesson. However, improved bullets have helped the 9mm regain its title as the worldwide standard for personal protection.

There are hundreds of 9mm handgun options, everything from micro-compact carry guns to full-sized duty and target pistols. There are even some 9mm revolvers that come with moon clips so that the cartridge’s rimless design will operate in revolvers. Regardless of which platform you choose, the 9mm serves as an effective self-defense round that offers impressive magazine capacities (even in single-stack configurations) and manageable recoil. I carry a 9mm every day (when I’m not running with my .380), I use one to shoot IDPA competitions, and I’d guess that half of the new pistols I evaluate for various print and web publications are chambered in 9mm. Many modern micro-compact 9mms hold ten or more rounds of ammunition yet weigh less than 25 ounces, and with so many options from which to choose you’d do well to select the 9mm as your personal defense weapon. And since ammunition is widely available and relatively cheap, you’ll be able to practice with your favorite 9mm without having to spend a fortune.

38 Special

Benefits: Functions in revolvers without moon clips, comfortable to shoot, plenty of revolver options

Some shooters prefer the simplicity and classic styling of revolvers over semi-autos. If that’s you, the 38 Special should be on your radar. Originally released near the end of the nineteenth century, the 38 Special was the sidearm of choice for police officers from the Roaring Twenties until the 1980s and 1990s. The 38 Special had (and has) many things working in its favor: recoil was modest in all but the very lightest revolvers, but stopping power from the .357-inch bullets it fires is adequate to stop most attackers. A compact revolver holds five or six rounds of 38 ammunition, and there are many excellent self-defense and target loads. Expect the price of 38 Special ammunition to run slightly more than 9mm ammo, but not much. Compact carry revolvers are chambered in 38 Special, so you’ll have many options.

Since it was originally designed to function in revolvers, the 38 Special cartridge features a rim, and that makes operation in wheel guns simple. In fact, “simple” might be the operative word for 38 revolvers. New shooters will find there’s less of a learning curve to master the basic operations of a revolver as compared to semi-auto, and cleaning and basic maintenance are very simple and straightforward. It’s no wonder that 38 revolvers remain such a popular option for self-defense.

357 Magnum

Benefits: Ample power, small revolvers can be chambered for the cartridge, also fires 38 Special ammunition

The 357 Magnum, which debuted in 1935, is the more potent younger brother of the 38 Special. The 357 uses bullets that are the same diameter (.357 inch) as the 38 Special, which is understandably confusing to many shooters. In fact, the only difference between the two rounds is that the 357 Magnum case is slightly longer (about 1/8 inch) than the 38 Special case. This design prevents 357 Magnum cartridges from fitting in 38 Special chambers, and that’s a good thing. The 357 Magnum is loaded to higher pressures than the 38 Special, and as a result velocity and energy levels are higher with the 357 Magnum. Most factory 38 Special loads top out at about 1,100 feet per second while .357 magnum rounds propel bullets of the same diameter and weight about 300 feet-per-second faster. Muzzle energies for the 357 Magnum are about twice that of the 38 Special.

With that added velocity and energy come added muzzle blast and recoil. A full-sized 357 Magnum with a five- or six-inch barrel is manageable for new shooters, but short-barreled 357 Magnums can be a real handful. But here’s a bit of good news: revolvers chambered in 357 Magnum can shoot 38 Special loads without issues for low-cost, low-recoil practice. The 357 Magnum offers enough power that it can be used for hunting deer, though it’s considered at the low end of the effective big-game cartridge spectrum and ranges should be kept relatively close. It’s also a favorite round for bear defense.

40 Smith & Wesson

Benefits: More power than a 9mm, more capacity than a 45 ACP

The 40 Smith & Wesson was designed for law-enforcement officers. It’s actually a shortened version of the 10mm Auto (more on that later) and was set to replace the 9mm when the latter was deemed unreliable for threat-stopping. When it was released in 1990 the 40 S&W’s numbers were impressive: it could drive 40-caliber bullets ranging in weight from 115- to 200-grains at velocities up to 1,400 fps, which allows it to generate muzzle energies on-par with the 357 Magnum. The cartridge’s smaller diameter allowed 40 S&W service and carry guns to hold a few more rounds than competing 45 ACP models, so the 40 S&W became popular with law-enforcement professionals and the shooting public alike.

Improvements to the 9mm have helped that cartridge steal the spotlight that the 40 once occupied as the go-to service round, but that doesn’t mean the 40 S&W is washed up. There are still plenty of guns chambered for this cartridge and lots of ammunition options. Ammo for the 40 S&W ammunition isn’t as cheap as 9mm, but it’s still relatively affordable. In full-sized duty and target guns the 40 S&W is manageable to shoot, but it packs noticeably more recoil than the 9mm. Very small, light 40s are easy to carry, but with full-house defensive loads a lightweight 40 is a handful, especially if you aren’t a seasoned shooter. Still, the 40 S&W is an effective option for personal defense, and it’s a good choice for protection against bears, especially in areas where grizzlies are absent.

10mm Auto

Benefits: Power to stop two- and four-legged predators without punishing recoil, suitable for hunting, more power and capacity than 45 ACP

In the 1980s when law enforcement agencies (specifically the FBI) were looking for a replacement for their 9mm service weapons the newly minted 10mm Auto was the heir apparent. There’s no doubt that the 10mm offered plenty of stopping power, but it turned out to be too much of a good thing. Not all recruits could handle the 10mm’s setback, and to worsen matters there were production issues with early 10mm pistols. Smith & Wesson and Federal decided to shorten the 10mm’s case, reduce the recoil, and muzzle energy. In doing so, the 40 Smith & Wesson was created, which effectively stole the 10mm’s spotlight.

The rise of the 40 S&W almost meant the death of the 10mm, but this cartridge was too good to go away. During the decades following its release the 10mm grew from a niche cartridge to widespread popularity. It could propel the same 180- and 200-grain bullets as the smaller 40, but it did so faster and produced muzzle energies around 600 foot- pounds. Today SIG, Springfield Armory, Kimber, Colt, Ruger, and several other manufacturers offer 10mm auto pistols, and there are lots of ammunition options.

When I first encountered the 10mm I feared it. But after shooting a few 10s I learned to really like this cartridge, and I now own a couple of these guns. No, it’s not a gun for beginners, but most shooters will, with a bit of practice, learn to manage this round. It’s powerful enough for hunting big game like deer at moderate ranges, and it produces less recoil than the popular 44 Remington Magnum. Over time the 10mm has become one of the most popular weapons for defense against grizzly bears, and when I traveled to Alaska in 2020 that’s what I carried and will do so again because the 10mm provides plenty of stopping power in a streamlined semi-auto design that’s lighter and handier than any big-bore revolver.

45 ACP

Benefits: Plenty of stopping power, lots of firearm and ammunition options

The 45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) is another creation of John Browning. After it was released in 1904, the 45 ACP saw service in several conflicts including World Wars I and II, the Korean War, Vietnam, and others. It was (and is) popular with law-enforcement professionals, and there have undoubtedly been more custom 1911 pistols chambered in 45 ACP than any other round.

The military chose to use 230-grain .452-inch 45 ACP ammunition that left the muzzle at a velocity of about 830 feet per second, a combination that produces about 350 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. Current 45 ACP loads stick fairly closely to that formula because, well, it works. You can expect to find 45 ACP ammunition ranging from 185 to 230 grains on average, and you can expect to pay slightly more per round than you would for 9mm ammunition and about the same you’d pay for 40 S&W. Right now, most target ammunition costs between 50 and 75 cents per round.

The 45 ACP is not a beginner’s gun, but when shooting a full-sized all-steel pistol weighing around 40 ounces this broad-shouldered but relatively low pressure and velocity round is manageable and is certainly easier to shoot than a 10mm of equal weight. With its larger diameter bullets the 45 ACP can’t match the magazine capacity of the 9mm Luger, the 40 S&W, or the 10mm, but it packs quite a punch. Before I switched to a 9mm for my everyday carry (EDC) pistol I carried a Commander-style 1911 with a 4.25-inch barrel that held 8 rounds in the magazine and one more in the chamber—more than many subcompact 9mms. That gun was heavier and harder to conceal than a small 9mm, but it disappeared under a lightweight cover garment and was very comfortable to shoot.

44 Remington Magnum

Benefits: Dual purpose hunting/bear defense cartridge, most popular big-bore revolver (so more options), can also fire 44 Special loads, Dirty Harry panache

Heretofore, we’ve discussed cartridges that, with a bit of training and gun of appropriate weight, the average shooter can likely master, but this is where the recoil-sensitive reader gets off the bus. The 44 Remington Magnum is a potent hunting and bear-defense round, but it isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s the brainchild of Elmer Keith, the enigmatic gun writer of the mid-twentieth century who liked big-bore rifles and handguns and didn’t think the 38 Special or 45 Colt had enough hutzpah for the serious shooter. Keith was one of the driving forces behind the 357 Magnum in the 1930s, and he gave the 44 Special a similar treatment in 1955 by extending the case, increasing pressure, and using the same bullet (actually .429 inch, though “429 Magnum” doesn’t sound very sexy). Smith & Wesson and Ruger jumped on board to provide revolvers, Remington standardized the ammunition, and the 44 Remington Magnum was born. A few years later the Clint Eastwood film Dirty Harry arrived in theaters, and the 44 Magnum became a pop culture sensation.

454 Casull

Benefits: More potent hunting/predator stopping round than the 44 Magnum, also fires 45 Colt ammunition

In 1958, Utah gunsmith Dick Casull decided to one-up Keith’s 44 Magnum by lengthening and slightly modifying the 45 Colt to create his own round, the 454 Casull. In the 1980s, Wyoming-based revolver manufacturer Freedom Arms began offering single-action revolvers chambered in 454 Casull, and they earned a cult following. By 1997 the cartridge was SAAMI (Sporting and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) standardized and Ruger began offering it in the Super Redhawk double-action revolver.

There are a handful of factory .454 Casull hunting loads, most of which are loaded with 240- to 300-grain bullets between 1,500 and 1,900 feet per second. That equates to a ton-and-a-half of muzzle energy and a flat-shooting round that, in experienced hands, is suitable for large game like elk and moose to moderate ranges. But, as you might imagine, recoil and muzzle blast are pretty fearsome, and ammunition isn’t cheap, either. You can expect to pay between $2 and $3 each time you pull the trigger on your .454. The good news, however, is that .454 revolvers will shoot 45 Colt ammo for light recoil, low-cost practice.

I’ve shot the .454 Casull, and it’s indeed a handful. I’ve never been inclined to hunt large game like elk or moose with a revolver, but the .454 Casull is where I would start. It’s also a superb bear-numbing round, offering plenty of punch to stop even the largest ursine at point-blank range.

500 Smith & Wesson Magnum

Benefits: Unrivaled stopping power

If you’re seeking a handgun that hits like a howitzer, then the 500 S&W Magnum is the answer. Firing half-inch-wide bullets ranging from 300 to 500 grains at velocities between 1,400 and 2,000 feet per second, the 500 (which happens to be the largest handgun-specific caliber in the world) produces well over a ton of muzzle energy. This cartridge first appeared in 2003 in S&W’s monster X-Frame revolver, which, when chambered in 500 and equipped with an 8 3/8-inch barrel, weighs nearly four-and-a-half pounds. All Smith & Wesson 500 revolvers come with a muzzle brake, but recoil and muzzle rise are still quite dramatic. This is not a revolver for anyone but the most seasoned handgun shooter.

Despite its prodigious power the 500 Isn’t awful to shoot if you’ve learned to handle a hard-recoiling handgun. It’s suitable for hunting even the largest game like bison, elk, moose, and bear, and because it hits with the same authority as a medium-bore centerfire rifle the 500 puts a dramatic end to even the most dedicated grizzly bear charges. Revolvers chambered in 500 S&W Magnum will also shoot 500 S&W special ammunition, which is lighter than magnum loads and is available from Cor-Bon, but the .500 is still a specialized gun for experienced shooters who need lots of power and know how to handle it. Neither 500 revolvers nor 500 ammunition is cheap, but if you really want to own the “most powerful handgun in the world” here it is.

Conclusion

Handguns serve a variety of roles. Most commonly, handguns are used for personal protection because they are easy to conceal and comfortable to carry. They are also popular options for target shooters and hunters. Given the wide range of available models, picking the right handgun can be problematic. This guide of ten essential handgun cartridges will help you select the right gun and ammo for you.



FAQs

Q: Why can a 38 Special   cartridge fit into a 357 Magnum  revolver, but not the other way around?

A: The 357’s larger cartridge case requires a larger cylinder, and pressure levels are much higher than the 38 Special, so it’s not safe to fire the longer, higher-pressure Magnum round in a 38 revolver (and, in many cases, the 357 Magnum cartridge won’t fit in a 38 Special cylinder). Similarly, 44 Special cartridges operate in 44 Magnum guns, and 45 Colt rounds work in .454 Casull revolvers.

Q: I see a lot of people with red dot sights on their handguns. Is this a gimmick?

A: No. Red dot (or reflex sights) offer an aiming point that is visible in all light and, if you’re familiar with the optic, you can shoot a red dot more quickly than iron sights. Red dots are more precise and, if you have vision issues, they are easier to see. The term “red dot” is a misnomer since many new handgun optics actually use green dots because green is easier to see in a broad range of light conditions.

Q: Are there differences between target and self-defense ammunition?

A: Target ammunition is designed for just that—target shooting. The bullets used in target ammo are typically FMJ (full metal jacket) for centerfire handguns, so target ammunition is less expensive than self-defense ammunition that uses premium bullets that are specifically engineered to stop a threat.



Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2023, 11:03:46 AM »
Personally I think the .45 Colt should have been included and likely the .500 S&W left out just like the .460 S&W was. But that's just me.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!
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Offline orerancher

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2023, 12:59:59 PM »
I prefer a .45colt loaded a little heavy over the 44mag...

Offline darkgael

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2023, 12:07:51 AM »
Quote
this list runs down the best handgun cartridges currently on the market

Best? Most popular, perhaps.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2023, 12:56:42 AM »
yup and you dont need a wheelbarrow to take it out in the woods
Personally I think the .45 Colt should have been included and likely the .500 S&W left out just like the .460 S&W was. But that's just me.
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Offline GTS225

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2023, 01:56:36 AM »
Personally, I'd question the validity of the entire article.

Anybody notice that the first question in the FAQ's was transposed?

Just sayin'.....Roger

Offline Dee

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2023, 02:21:32 AM »
I've always regretted letting a 4" Smith 25-5 go.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2023, 04:35:46 AM »
I saw a You Tube video and it showed the 10mm auto penetrated deeper than the 45acp and is now preferred over the larger 44 mag.  It can give more rounds quicker for fast bear protection.  The second place was a short barrelled 44mag for bear. 
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2023, 10:11:52 PM »
i more then one of both and have killed black bear with both and would take a six shot revolver loaded wit 300 grain cast over any load in my 10s if facing something dangerous. i shot one bison with a 44 loaded like that. i was facing me at an angle. similar to what you would face with a charging bear. it broke the front shoulder went all the way through and busted the back leg before exiting. it dropped on the spot and if youve ever hunted bison youd know that's rare.no way would a 10 penetrate like that. at the linebaugh seminar one year they had a charging bear on a clothes line type deal. many shot it. i like a few others was hitting on the first shot. only two there made a second hit and no one a third. keep in mind the only pressure was that there was people watching. we weren't facing death like in a real charge. also keep in mind that there was some of the best handgun shooters i ever met there and 75% didnt even make a single hit.

charging bear? id say make your first shot count. if i was ever faced with it id hope to have one of my 500s or 475s. sure would be carrying a 10 or 357. bottom line is a 10 is just a semi auto 357 for all intensive purposes. biggest things ive shot with 10s were deer and pigs they all ran far enough at the shot that they could have easily got to me and probably to fast for me to get a second accurate shot off even if i was cool headed enough to even aim the second time. i was underwhelmed enough that i wouldn't even take one out hunting black bear. grizzly or brown bear? youd have to have a death wish. you also have to keep in mind being a guide doesnt make you an expert shooter or an expert on guns. ive heard this bs for years on the internet but never saw where they actually poled any guides to actually find out what they prefer.

my uncles step son was a beer guide in alaska and he carried a 375 h&h and when he was around camp and in his tent he used one of those rem pistol gripped short barreled gun loaded wit 00 buck. told me he wouldnt bother with any handgun. said he made up a holster on his back pack for it so hed have it if a wounded bear was in the thick stuff. in 18 years of it he never used it. said he never saw a bear charge. he said most of this crap is just fabricated storys told by idiots that want people to think there a bad ass. now if you were talking self defense the 10 MIGHT edge out the 45. but the 45 is just so much easier to shoot for most that id be skeptical. that and the only easily concealable one ive shot is my 29 and even it doesnt make for a gun your going to carry under a t shirt. its a bit thick. i sometimes carry my 26 27 29 or 30 in the winter but in the summer usually a single stacked 9. my other 10s are a 20, a 1911 colt and a smith m&p and none of those are compact in any way. to me the 10 is about like a 41 mag. i own them but dont buy into the Kool-Aid bs spread about them. all that said its just another opinion
I saw a You Tube video and it showed the 10mm auto penetrated deeper than the 45acp and is now preferred over the larger 44 mag.  It can give more rounds quicker for fast bear protection.  The second place was a short barrelled 44mag for bear.
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Offline darkgael

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2023, 12:07:41 AM »
Lloyd: Another good post. Seems to me that the emphasis for many shooters is dealing with charging bears. What is the best pistol? Everyone, or nearly so, wants to carry a pistol. Understood. Pistols are convenient and strapped to your hip. They are not the best tool for the job. If there is a “best tool” for dealing with a large charging mammal, it is a large bore long gun. The “beer guide” has the right idea. The problems with long guns are numerous…one really needs a dedicated individual who is carrying the rifle and nothing else. Still no guarantees.
Again, seems to me, that in a bear charging incident, what you want to do is more than hit the animal…..you want to STOP the animal. That is what “stopping rifles” are for.
Just sayin’.

Offline Dee

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2023, 01:16:09 AM »
If I were in bear country, a short barreled shotgun with magnum loaded slugs is what I'd carry.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglow

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2023, 01:40:14 AM »
Personally I think the .45 Colt should have been included and likely the .500 S&W left out just like the .460 S&W was. But that's just me.

  I suggest that the author, when he was saying "top ten", was not saying the top ten in effectiveness, but rather the top ten in popularity.
  That would perhaps, explain why the .500 and .460 S&W rounds were left out.

  There is a place for the lowly .22 in the discussion.  For some folks, they can fire a .22 with far better accuracy rapidity, than they can a heavier caliber.
   From tests, a Federal Punch, stinger, mini Mag or velociter can penetrate completely or nearly completely through a human head..

    I know I will bring down derision, but  stats seem to agree, when we discover just how effective the .22 is.

   Keeping in mind that not everyone who needs to carry, is a handgun expert (though they should practice), a couple hits by a .22 may well
  be more effective than a miss by a .357.

     
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2023, 07:23:34 AM »
maybe not. the noise from the 357 might startle it. a 22lr is just going to piss it off more. ive seen squirrels and rabbit's crawl off at after being hit by a 22
Personally I think the .45 Colt should have been included and likely the .500 S&W left out just like the .460 S&W was. But that's just me.

  I suggest that the author, when he was saying "top ten", was not saying the top ten in effectiveness, but rather the top ten in popularity.
  That would perhaps, explain why the .500 and .460 S&W rounds were left out.

  There is a place for the lowly .22 in the discussion.  For some folks, they can fire a .22 with far better accuracy rapidity, than they can a heavier caliber.
   From tests, a Federal Punch, stinger, mini Mag or velociter can penetrate completely or nearly completely through a human head..

    I know I will bring down derision, but  stats seem to agree, when we discover just how effective the .22 is.

   Keeping in mind that not everyone who needs to carry, is a handgun expert (though they should practice), a couple hits by a .22 may well
  be more effective than a miss by a .357.

   
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Offline ironglow

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2023, 07:49:05 AM »
   Well, I predicted that I would bring down derision, so it is no surprise.

      From Lloyd;

  " maybe not. the noise from the 357 might startle it. a 22lr is just going to piss it off more. ive seen squirrels and rabbit's crawl off at after being hit by a 22"

  Yes, an dyou may well be great with a .357 0r .44 mag, but not everyone is..  Small ladies, elderly, arthritis sufferers etc.

     So far as the rabbits and squirrels, I've not seen them crawl off with a well placed head shot...and likely that rabbit or squirrel would not
   be DRT with a .38 to the hind foot ! wouldn't be with a .22 to the hind foot either.

   A testimony from a retired cop in a very 'busy' city, found on THE HIGH ROAD..

     " hile working as a LEO in the Compton/Watts area in the 1980's I handled about 15-20 homicides where .22's were used. It was a common caliber gang members and family to kill a relative. Most were close up several shots to the body. Not that other calibers were not used but the .22 was common, and did the job. Murders in that area were very common with one occuring at least weekly if not more often. I often carry a .22 in my pocket with cci stingers. I also will carry a 9mm or 45acp depending where I go. So I can say for a fact the little .22 with a good placed shot(s) can and will kill a human. This isn't stat's but facts."

   Don't get me wrong, i am not suggesting that anyone who os proficient with a large handgun should/must carry a .22.. I am suggesting that .22s
    are more effective than many think they are.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2023, 08:45:12 AM »
dont get wound up. im not beyond taking the dog for a walk with one of my naa 22's in my pocket.  ill add that if you can handle a 10mm a 44 isnt much if any harder to master. we were pig hunting one day and one youg guy had his girlfriend there. buddy and i had 500 line with full power loads. when we were done we started to do some plinking. she wanted to try one. nobody told here they would rip your hand off. she sat down and shot 15 rounds through my 4in 500 and probably 20 or more out of the buddy's gun. her reaction ranged from giggling to out right laughing. she didnt go much over a 100lbs.

 when i here someone cant handle a 44 i think back on that. most people who cant just havent sit down and tried or there full of the bs there buddies feed them about how painful they are. there's some with physical limitations that struggle with even a 357 but if your a healthy man and a 44 rips out of your hand id suggest you get a gym membership. my granddaughter shot 44 mags when she was 15 and shes a petite little thing to. if were talking someone that feels he needs a gun for dangerous game and wont take the time to master a proper gun he should either stay home or at least leave his pop guns home and let the guide take care of dangerous situations.

bottom line is i wouldnt even be in big bear country with a 44. id have a 475 or 500 on my hip. I kind of like the idea of seeing a few more tomorrows ;) i have absolutely never been in the field and thought i took to much gun. i have been in situations where i thought to myself, Lloyd you took to small of a hammer. i dont understand the train of thought some have that think there cool shooting something big with something small. To me those people are just idiots and i dont want to be around them.
.
   Well, I predicted that I would bring down derision, so it is no surprise.

      From Lloyd;

  " maybe not. the noise from the 357 might startle it. a 22lr is just going to piss it off more. ive seen squirrels and rabbit's crawl off at after being hit by a 22. my post was aimed at the 10mm being better then a 44 mag and its not even close.  "

  Yes, an dyou may well be great with a .357 0r .44 mag, but not everyone is..  Small ladies, elderly, arthritis sufferers etc.

     So far as the rabbits and squirrels, I've not seen them crawl off with a well placed head shot...and likely that rabbit or squirrel would not
   be DRT with a .38 to the hind foot ! wouldn't be with a .22 to the hind foot either.

   A testimony from a retired cop in a very 'busy' city, found on THE HIGH ROAD..

     " hile working as a LEO in the Compton/Watts area in the 1980's I handled about 15-20 homicides where .22's were used. It was a common caliber gang members and family to kill a relative. Most were close up several shots to the body. Not that other calibers were not used but the .22 was common, and did the job. Murders in that area were very common with one occuring at least weekly if not more often. I often carry a .22 in my pocket with cci stingers. I also will carry a 9mm or 45acp depending where I go. So I can say for a fact the little .22 with a good placed shot(s) can and will kill a human. This isn't stat's but facts."

   Don't get me wrong, i am not suggesting that anyone who os proficient with a large handgun should/must carry a .22.. I am suggesting that .22s
    are more effective than many think they are.
blue lives matter

Offline Ranger99

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2023, 02:05:06 PM »
Lots of things have changed the
last decade or so with the breakthroughs
in ammunition technology

The individual shooting still makes
the most difference
I've seen a good many cul-de-sac
commandos all decked out in their
"operator " gear at the gun range
that couldn't keep all their shots
on a paper plate at 50 yards
with a 223 AR
Shoulda stayed at home with
the playstation
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2023, 09:17:59 PM »
yup that always makes me chuckle. people say the 9 is everything the 40 and 45 are now because of these high tech bullets. but what they dont factor in is the same bullets are loaded in the 40 and 45. i use the all but if i had to defend my self bigger is always better in my opinion. this hype was good for me though. i got a hell of a deal on a couple new glock 40s the prison here was liquidating to go to 9s. one 22 and one 30. both new in the box with 4 mags! out the door for $350 a piece. I wish now i would have bought more. IMO for what its worth if ccw isnt a consideration the glock 22 is the best fighting pistol made. its the only glock i have more then one of. had 3 up till last week when a nephew talked me out of my oldest one. now im down to 2 and feel naked ;)
Lots of things have changed the
last decade or so with the breakthroughs
in ammunition technology

The individual shooting still makes
the most difference
I've seen a good many cul-de-sac
commandos all decked out in their
"operator " gear at the gun range
that couldn't keep all their shots
on a paper plate at 50 yards
with a 223 AR
Shoulda stayed at home with
the playstation
blue lives matter

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2023, 12:34:53 PM »
The thing to remember in self defense shooting is this:

You are not shooting to KILL. Sure that might be the end result of the shooting but it isn't the objective. The objective is to make the person attacking you STOP the attack. The moment they do that you are expected to stop shooting them.

With a rimfire death might happen from a shooting but after how many hits? What will the person be able to do to you in the meantime? Doesn't matter that a little girl in Alaska killed a brown bear with a .22LR and she lucked up and so might you. But really unless you just absolutely can't take the recoil of a .380 or 9mm a rimfire just isn't a good idea.

Sure it's usable and much easier to load and to work the slide on and has nearly zero recoil. That doesn't make it a wise choice.

My left arm and hand also really are next to useless to me. I cannot hold anything other than a rimfire in my right hand and work the slide. No matter how hard I try I cannot do it. I must switch the gun to my left hand and work the slide with my right hand.

I'm mostly toting a S&W Shield EZ 9mm these days. I'm likely going to trade off my original Shield and get one of the newer Equalizer guns which use the EZ technology and has the same footprint as my EZ so fits same holsters I already have and use.

As to recoil, I am quite limited in what I can shoot effectively also. For instance I had a Shield in .40 S&W. It almost jumped out of my hand on each shot and I did completely lose my off hand grip and had to reposition after each shot. Not acceptable for defense so I traded it off.

I have a S&W Model 60 with 3" barrel and adjustable rear sight. Had one in .38 Special before the one with .357 Magnum came out. I shot full house loads from this thing for perhaps 30 years, not sure, but can no longer do so. I can shoot lighter magnum loads but not full house loads. Even .38 +P is nearly uncontrollable for me. I have mostly retired it and it no longer is a bedside defense gun.

You just do not know and can't understand what it's like to have arthritis eat up your hands until it happens to you. I had carpal tunnel surgery on the left hand and after closing in on 3 years I still have not regained full use of that hand. The left shoulder needs replacement surgery but I have decided to live with it. I don't have many years left and am just not willing to lose total use of it for a year or two just to reduce the pain level. The surgeon told me that's all the replacement would do, reduce the pain, it wouldn't give me back full use of that arm.

So yes I do understand the desire to lighten up the weight of the gun and the recoil by using a rimfire, I really do. My little S&W M&P Compact 22 would be a joy to carry and shoot but I honestly don't consider it a viable self defense gun.

So I mostly carry a Shield EZ 9mm as a compromise. I likely will soon go to the Shield Equalizer for more rounds in the mag. Of course I can't fully load the mags for it.

The Equalizer uses the same mags as my Shield Plus does. There are 3 with 10, 13 and 15 round capacity. I can load all in the ten round but can't in the other two even using a loading tool. I can get 11 and sometimes 12 in the 13 round mags and I can get 13 in the 15 round mags I have. I just don't have the hand strength to put more in. Yes I have a loading tool designed just for these magazines, I still can't force more rounds in due to lack of hand strength.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2023, 09:47:44 PM »
ive got a carpal tunnel story for you. i had both hands done. left first and the right a month later. . 2 weeks after that one i got my first linebaugh. a 5.5" 475. it tore me up that i couldnt shoot it. i had loaded test loads for it before the surgery. about two weeks into it most of the pain was gone and id call it a bit sore. couldnt wait any longer so i grabbed some ammo and headed to the range. pat the first shot the gun twisted out of my hand and went flying. felt about like Jesus getting nails drove in his wrist. i headed to the emergency room and 3 hours later i was in surgery again. i was on work comp because being a lineman is hell on your hands wearing those thick rubber gloves to work on 7200v hot. i actually at that time had 3 weeks of work comp left for recovery and because i did that dumb ass thing work comp refused to pay me any more. it took a month and a half of being off without pay before i could go back to work. but honestly i still could barely do my job. they even tested me the first day by having me climb a 55 foot pole and i did it but about had tears in my eyes. it was a good year before that hand was right again the other one was fine after a couple months
blue lives matter

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: The Top Ten Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2023, 01:52:51 PM »
Most of these have been used successfully to stop big bears. Including the lowly 22 LR.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/04/update-of-pistol-defenses-against-bears-123-cases-98-effective/#axzz8AB8RVK7t

Type of ammo need for different situations vary. Hollow point ammo best suited against human predators, is not good for heavy muscled thick skinned animal predators.
 
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