James Madison

[gene_225]

"If men were angels no government would be necessary." James Madison

[magooch]

Are we talking angles, or angels?

[gene_225]

Sorry for mis spelling: angels!

[ironglow]

 
    " We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments." (James Madison)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   All mankind is fallen...and flawed.  We can only elevate our fallen condition by way of bowing to God and accepting His forgiveness and correction.
 
 
  "...But those who turn away from God..turn away from any hope of correction.."  My opinion...but one shared by billions..

[TrumpWon]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

[TrumpWon]

In Republics, the great danger is, that the majority may not sufficiently respect the rights of the minority. 
James Madison

[ironglow]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

[ironglow]

In Republics, the great danger is, that the majority may not sufficiently respect the rights of the minority. 
James Madison

   A snapshot of the federal agencies today..

[Dee]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

[ironglow]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

   Different areas of the country handled things differently..  Neither freed blacks or Indian tribes were stifiled around where I live.
  Indians had a very special deal, and it continues yet today.

  Only in the Americas were Indians allowed to have their own sovereign nations within a nation.  Further, they can choose to either live/work/rule in
   their own sovereign nation, or live and work in the nation at large.

  I believe you can search through Europe, the near east and far east and not find where a defeated people were allowed their own "sovereign
  nation" privilege.

  On second thought, Palestinians squatting in Israel may be similar to that notion..
 

[Mule 11]

If your dumb enough to take a deal from the gubment that screwed you in the past and expect  a different result?

[ironglow]

If your dumb enough to take a deal from the gubment that screwed you in the past and expect  a different result?

  To be fair with the Indians though... each tribe took the best deal they could get.  They didn't have many bargaining chips..  I'm sure it differs across the country, but the Indians on the reservations around here (3 in my county alone), have a good deal. 
 
   They have the exclusive rights to operate Casinos, and do a load of business with off the res customers in tax free booze, gas and tobacco.  Now that
   NY has gone the way of other blue led states, and legalized the green dope. "dispesaries" for pot, are popping up all over the reservation.

  Shortly after I retired, i worked in a local hardware.  If an Indian purchased something, he/she only need show an ID, and there was no sales
  tax for them.

  Oh yes, they also have free medical/dental clinics too. I don't b egrudge them these bennies..since that was part of their bargain with the feds.

[Dee]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

   Different areas of the country handled things differently..  Neither freed blacks or Indian tribes were stifiled around where I live.
  Indians had a very special deal, and it continues yet today.

  Only in the Americas were Indians allowed to have their own sovereign nations within a nation.  Further, they can choose to either live/work/rule in
   their own sovereign nation, or live and work in the nation at large.

  I believe you can search through Europe, the near east and far east and not find where a defeated people were allowed their own "sovereign
  nation" privilege.

  On second thought, Palestinians squatting in Israel may be similar to that notion..
 

Being an American Indian myself, (Cherokee) and seeing, knowing, and hearing what my family was put through, I would say that you are full of crap, and haven't a clue what your talking about. 

[ironglow]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

   Different areas of the country handled things differently..  Neither freed blacks or Indian tribes were stifiled around where I live.
  Indians had a very special deal, and it continues yet today.

  Only in the Americas were Indians allowed to have their own sovereign nations within a nation.  Further, they can choose to either live/work/rule in
   their own sovereign nation, or live and work in the nation at large.

  I believe you can search through Europe, the near east and far east and not find where a defeated people were allowed their own "sovereign
  nation" privilege.

  On second thought, Palestinians squatting in Israel may be similar to that notion..
 

Being an American Indian myself, (Cherokee) and seeing, knowing, and hearing what my family was put through, I would say that you are full of crap, and haven't a clue what your talking about. 

  Opinions are like _ _ _holes, everyone has one..and most all of thenm stink...at least to those who disagree.

  With the constant bleating about how the Cherokee suffered..and I admit they did..some are starting to sound like some of our black people, continually raising the slave issue ofa couple centuries ago.

  Perhaps a little known fact.. When the Cherokee walked the "trail of tears"..they took their slaves with them (Most all indian tyribes had slaves)

  The slaves willingly went along...for a time..  https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=SL002

  I am not picking on anybody, but I hasten to remind all, that almost everyone has an "oppression story" in their ethnic history..

[TrumpWon]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

[Dee]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

   Different areas of the country handled things differently..  Neither freed blacks or Indian tribes were stifiled around where I live.
  Indians had a very special deal, and it continues yet today.

  Only in the Americas were Indians allowed to have their own sovereign nations within a nation.  Further, they can choose to either live/work/rule in
   their own sovereign nation, or live and work in the nation at large.

  I believe you can search through Europe, the near east and far east and not find where a defeated people were allowed their own "sovereign
  nation" privilege.

  On second thought, Palestinians squatting in Israel may be similar to that notion..
 

Being an American Indian myself, (Cherokee) and seeing, knowing, and hearing what my family was put through, I would say that you are full of crap, and haven't a clue what your talking about. 

  Opinions are like _ _ _holes, everyone has one..and most all of thenm stink...at least to those who disagree.

  With the constant bleating about how the Cherokee suffered..and I admit they did..some are starting to sound like some of our black people, continually raising the slave issue ofa couple centuries ago.

  Perhaps a little known fact.. When the Cherokee walked the "trail of tears"..they took their slaves with them (Most all indian tyribes had slaves)

  The slaves willingly went along...for a time..  https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=SL002

  I am not picking on anybody, but I hasten to remind all, that almost everyone has an "oppression story" in their ethnic history..

Nobody said you were picking on anybody. Nobody is "bleating". I said you are full of s$it, and don't know what your talking about. And you don't.  A fence post knows more about the topic of "American Indian genocide" than you, and a little smarter. Maybe a lot. 

[Dee]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

Careful. You're talking to a fence post that clanked around in antique army tanks in the 1950s. He knows things.   

[ironglow]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

Careful. You're talking to a fence post that clanked around in antique army tanks in the 1950s. He knows things.   

   Well.. I didn't clank around in any "antique" tank, but rather operated a first line at the time, Patton series tank.  It ran smooth, and the 17846 cu in V12 Continental with supercharger, did the job quite well, thank you! Fifty five tons of screaming, supercharged armor plate and weapons.
   You're not envious, are you?

[Dee]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

Careful. You're talking to a fence post that clanked around in antique army tanks in the 1950s. He knows things.   

   Well.. I didn't clank around in any "antique" tank, but rather operated a first line at the time, Patton series tank.  It ran smooth, and the 17846 cu in V12 Continental with supercharger, did the job quite well, thank you! Fifty five tons of screaming, supercharged armor plate and weapons.
   You're not envious, are you?

LOL, And an expert on "Indian bleating".

[ironglow]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

  Oh Trumpy...as usual, lefty reads only the far left versions of things.  You ask about the tribes of NY !  How many times do I have to tell you to
    study history?
     The 6 tribes of the Iroquois confederacyu are doing OK these days.  I guess that unlike some areas, the folks on the res have very little differentation between them and the rest of us..other than home address.  I have friends among them, and hear very little or no, whining.

  The tribe that occupied the area where i live are the Senecas, who have 3 separate reservations in my county alone.  THey are doing just fine, making big bucks from their sales of tax free booze, tobacco and fuel among other things.  All 6 tribes have these bennies.

  IMO, they should be grateful that they were awarded reservations..and BTW, there is no desert or wastelands in NY State, so they are all on first class land.

 So why are they fortunate (IMO)?  Like many people...poor choices.  They fought the original European settlement, as would be expected.  However, the poor choices came later.
 1) The French and Indian War...They fought on the side of the French..Britain won..

 2) Pontiac's War..the Senecas and Mohawksagain sided with nthe french..and again, lost.

 3) The Revolutionary War..The tribes fought the Americans..except for the Oneidas, who remained neutral..  Americans won..

  Wrong side every time,it seems..  Most of the mohawks went with chief Joseph Brant to Canada, before the Revolutionary War ended, because his
    bloody traids upon the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylbvania, brought on the final campaign by Gen Sullivan, which 'broke the back" of the iroquois
    confederacy. 

  Still, the various tribes are now good neighbors, an dmake up the mosaic that constitutes NY State.

  Below see, oneida casino, Seneca Niagara casino and Seneca Allegany casino.. They arec doing OK !

[ironglow]

Sugar coat genocide all you want.

https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/united-states-treatment-native-americans

What happened to NY tribes?

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/the-native-peoples-of-new-york#:~:text=In%201779%2C%20the%20Continental%20Army,are%20hard%20to%20come%20by.

Careful. You're talking to a fence post that clanked around in antique army tanks in the 1950s. He knows things.   

   Well.. I didn't clank around in any "antique" tank, but rather operated a first line at the time, Patton series tank.  It ran smooth, and the 17846 cu in V12 Continental with supercharger, did the job quite well, thank you! Fifty five tons of screaming, supercharged armor plate and weapons.
   You're not envious, are you?

LOL, And an expert on "Indian bleating".

         "Nobody said you were picking on anybody. Nobody is "bleating". I said you are full of s$it, and don't know what your talking about. And you don't.  A fence post knows more about the topic of "American Indian genocide" than you, and a little smarter. Maybe a lot." 

     C'mon, name calling doesn't become you.
 
      Many folks are bleating these days..it seems so many want to be "victims"..  But as for that funny little pic of a tank, it gave me a chuckle.  So, I
     guess "turnabout is fair play"   

[Dee]

I like this one better. Because I'm gettin closer.

[ironglow]

' Being an American Indian myself, (Cherokee) and seeing, knowing, and hearing what my family was put through, I would say that you are full of crap, and haven't a clue what your talking about." 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   Today we hear people complaining..   An Irishman says, "My ancestors were treated badly, made to do menial labor only."

    Some black folks say."My ancestors, were slaves over 150 years ago,  and we want reparations"..

   Then, along comes some Chinese folks, saying.. "When our forefathers were immigrants to the west coast, we were mistreated badly".

    Many an American's ancestors came to America as indentured servants..and many died in that servitude.

  Thousands of Japanese Americans were dispossessed of their homes and businesses, and made to live in desert camps during WW2..

  Going across the "big water"..  In Britain, the Romans treated the native Picts terribly, and while in Scotia, they actually built walls to isolate the
  people from their own lands and fellow countrymen.
 
   As Roman power faded..The Anglo-Saxons jumped across the channel and subjugated the Britons...

  ..But the Anglo-Saxons had a wonderful opportunity to scream discrimination, when in 1066, the Normans jumped that same channel, and
    dispossessed the Anglo-Saxons of their lands and homes.

  So, think for a moment..what do we rightly tell all these "offended" people? *... We tell them,    For Heaven's sake, GET OVER IT !

   ..And that includes many of us who frequent here..having had ancestors who may have been "mistreated" both here and abroad..down through the pages of history !

  *  Some of those Japanese sent to the desert by the Democrats, were given a small repayment by the Reagan administration.

   

   

[Dee]

' Being an American Indian myself, (Cherokee) and seeing, knowing, and hearing what my family was put through, I would say that you are full of crap, and haven't a clue what your talking about." 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   Today we hear people complaining..   An Irishman says, "My ancestors were treated badly, made to do menial labor only."

    Some black folks say."My ancestors, were slaves over 150 years ago,  and we want reparations"..

   Then, along comes some Chinese folks, saying.. "When our forefathers were immigrants to the west coast, we were mistreated badly".

    Many an American's ancestors came to America as indentured servants..and many died in that servitude.

  Thousands of Japanese Americans were dispossessed of their homes and businesses, and made to live in desert camps during WW2..

  Going across the "big water"..  In Britain, the Romans treated the native Picts terribly, and while in Scotia, they actually built walls to isolate the
  people from their own lands and fellow countrymen.
 
   As Roman power faded..The Anglo-Saxons jumped across the channel and subjugated the Britons...

  ..But the Anglo-Saxons had a wonderful opportunity to scream discrimination, when in 1066, the Normans jumped that same channel, and
    dispossessed the Anglo-Saxons of their lands and homes.

  So, think for a moment..what do we rightly tell all these "offended" people? *... We tell them,    For Heaven's sake, GET OVER IT !

   ..And that includes many of us who frequent here..having had ancestors who may have been "mistreated" both here and abroad..down through the pages of history !

  *  Some of those Japanese sent to the desert by the Democrats, were given a small repayment by the Reagan administration.

   

 

Kinda like some of you old veterans that were in the military in the 1950s. I remember you specifically trying to get the VA to pay for your hearing loss because you're tank was loud in the 1950s. Never mind that you spent the next 60 years pounding on an anvil with a hammer,  you tried to defraud the VA system and get a disability check and free hearing aids. They smelled you out and said no.

So what do we tell these "entitled people" who try and defraud the government? We tell them,  For heavens sake,  quit trying to scam the system and pay your own way.


I MENTIONED HOW THE AMERICAN INDIANS WERE TREATED IN THEBEGINNING OF THIS COUNTRY,  AND YOUR GOOFY ASS HAS BLOWN IT INTO SUMTHIN ELSE.

[ironglow]

  BTW:   The history of the American Indian tribes was one of almost continual warfere.  They were busy taking other tribe lands, killing their people..at least those they didn't take for slaves .

   For instance, the Crow tribe had what is now Montana, pretty much to themselves for centuries, until the Blackfoot tribe came down from Canada
 and started kicking them around, taking their land, and people.

  Trumpy asked about the New York Indians...  OK let's look at them.  Before the Senecas moved into what is now western NY, two other tribes possessed that land, specifically the Neuter nation and the Eries.  So, what happened?

   Well, the Senecas being more numerous and powerful, completely wiped out the Neuters.  Then it was the Erie's turn.  THe Eries were basically wiped out, except for a few survivors, who were absorbed into the Senecas.

   
  At the other end of the state, the Mohawks virtually obliterated the Mohicans.

  We have a reminder of the Eries, with Lake Erie, Erie, PA and Erie county of NY.

  In mankind's entire history, far more years have been enveloped by war than by peace.  Holding ancient grudges, accomplishes nothing.

  Ionce preached a message on anger and hatred, wherein I employed a borrowed concept...

  Holding hatred or anger at somebody for years, is like taking a small sip of poison every day, hoping it will hate thet other person.

  ..And so far as I am concerned, that goes for those who still hate the Germans or Japanese for WW2, the American North/South anger, and anybody else who caused 'butt hurt' a couple hundred years ago.  Please, GET OVER IT !



 

[Dee]

My original post. See anything about reparation, any of that? I was referring to history. Then along comes the ironglow BS .

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.
[/quote]

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, AND 20th centuries.
[/quote]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

  BTW:   The history of the American Indian tribes was one of almost continual warfere.  They were busy taking other tribe lands, killing their people..at least those they didn't take for slaves .

   For instance, the Crow tribe had what is now Montana, pretty much to themselves for centuries, until the Blackfoot tribe came down from Canada
 and started kicking them around, taking their land, and people.

  Trumpy asked about the New York Indians...  OK let's look at them.  Before the Senecas moved into what is now western NY, two other tribes possessed that land, specifically the Neuter nation and the Eries.  So, what happened?

   Well, the Senecas being more numerous and powerful, completely wiped out the Neuters.  Then it was the Erie's turn.  THe Eries were basically wiped out, except for a few survivors, who were absorbed into the Senecas.

   
  At the other end of the state, the Mohawks virtually obliterated the Mohicans.

  We have a reminder of the Eries, with Lake Erie, Erie, PA and Erie county of NY.

  In mankind's entire history, far more years have been enveloped by war than by peace.  Holding ancient grudges, accomplishes nothing.

  Ionce preached a message on anger and hatred, wherein I employed a borrowed concept...

  Holding hatred or anger at somebody for years, is like taking a small sip of poison every day, hoping it will hate thet other person.

  ..And so far as I am concerned, that goes for those who still hate the Germans or Japanese for WW2, the American North/South anger, and anybody else who caused 'butt hurt' a couple hundred years ago.  Please, GET OVER IT !



 

BLA,BLA,BLA,BLA,BLA,BLA....

[ironglow]

  Reread poist #24..several incidents were enumerated, with only onein all history suggesting reparations... nice try at deflection, but the facts stand.

   Auf Weidersehen...

[nw_hunter]

Who would have known that two of the greatest historians in the world post right here on GBO Reloaded. We are truly blessed!

[Dee]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. 
James Madison

   For certain; that is why our forefathers allowed free discussion in the public arena..  ..And until the 21st century, we all got along quite well with the free flow of ideas.   That is, until the Marxists captured so many simple, emotionally unstable and violent minds.

The American Indian would not agree with that synopsis, nor would the freed blacks, and that would include the 19th, and 20th centuries.

Who would have known that two of the greatest historians in the world post right here on GBO Reloaded. We are truly blessed!

Who would have known that my very first post was clearly talking about the 19th and 20th century and not only ironglow, but apparently you also completely missed that point? But then again,  it ain't the 1st time for either of you.  How truly common place here on gbo.

[Mule 11]

Now where did I put them snacks?