GM says bye bye to Chevy Camaro

[mcbammer]

   


        https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/end-of-the-road-for-the-chevy-camaro
       
       GM plans to only sale electric vehicles by 2035

[Dee]

Well I doubt I'll need a pickup by then anyway, and besides that, I'd rather have a dodge

[mcbammer]

Well I doubt I'll need a pickup by then anyway, and besides that, I'd rather have a dodge

   Yep, I'm likely driving my last pickup I'll ever need too .

[Lloyd Smale]

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

[Casull]

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

Lloyd, where are you getting your numbers?  The 2023 Chevy 1500 w/ 5.3 V8 is rated at 16/20, while the 2023 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 hemi is rated at 15/22.

[Dee]

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

Lloyd, where are you getting your numbers?  The 2023 Chevy 1500 w/ 5.3 V8 is rated at 16/20, while the 2023 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 hemi is rated at 15/22.

If I keep my foot out of my 5.7 hemi I easily average 20 to 22 on the highway

[Casull]

Yep.

[Casull]

And it's got over 11% more horsepower.

[Dee]

And it's got over 11% more horsepower.

True. I know several folks that have switched over to Dodge pickups and say they'll never go back to Chevrolet/GMC. I'm one of'em.

[Dixie-Dude]

All cars have to be electric by 2035 according to the government mandate. 

[Dee]

All cars have to be electric by 2035 according to the government mandate.

LOL, a lot can happen in 12 years, besides at my age I may skip 2035

[Casull]

 

[Graybeard]

All cars have to be electric by 2035 according to the government mandate.

I think that's only in Californication.

[Dee]

All cars have to be electric by 2035 according to the government mandate.

I think that's only in Californication.

If that's the case, I'll postpone moving to Kalifornia.

[Lloyd Smale]

from the fact i owned two silverados with the most recent ls v8. a 2015vand a 2017. both got 22mpg on the hwy and if you kept it under 65 they might even see 23 on a trip. best ive ever got out of my 2020 ram is 18 and it is usualy 16-17. i trust my calculator more then what the government tells me. its no different in my challenger. its a 392 hemi and if driven 65 it will get 24mpg which isnt bad but my 2006 zo6 would do 29 on a trip if you drove it sanely. yuop a much lighter car but a buddy has a new ss Camaro and went to montana and back this summer and averaged 28 city/hwy combined for the whole trip wife's best friend has a new 5.0 mustang and has got 28 on small trips with that you show me a 4x4 hemi ram that gets 22mpg and ill gladly eat my words and probably the truck too

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

Lloyd, where are you getting your numbers?  The 2023 Chevy 1500 w/ 5.3 V8 is rated at 16/20, while the 2023 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 hemi is rated at 15/22.

[Lloyd Smale]

just walked outside and checked the ram. the wife went down state a 500 mile round trip to see the new great grandson. driving 65 on the local two lane roads for half of it and 75 on the freeway down state for half. i reset it before she left. the computer says she averaged 16.3 mpg. granted it has slightly bigger tires (33 in) which so far i figured cost me 1-2mpg. the computer was reprogramed for the bigger tires. this truck loves gasoline. that is about as real world as it gets. if you doubt these numbers go to a ram forum and you will see its the norm with these 1/2 ton hemi rams.

[Dee]

And it's got over 11% more horsepower.

Also, different people experience different mileage results. Driving habits, road conditions, traffic, speed limits, weather, altitude, using, or not using things like cruise control will all affect miles per gallon.

[mcbammer]

    Hopefully,  This push for  EV'S  will go away with the next administration .

[Casull]

from the fact i owned two silverados with the most recent ls v8. a 2015vand a 2017. both got 22mpg on the hwy and if you kept it under 65 they might even see 23 on a trip. best ive ever got out of my 2020 ram is 18 and it is usualy 16-17. i trust my calculator more then what the government tells me. its no different in my challenger. its a 392 hemi and if driven 65 it will get 24mpg which isnt bad but my 2006 zo6 would do 29 on a trip if you drove it sanely. yuop a much lighter car but a buddy has a new ss Camaro and went to montana and back this summer and averaged 28 city/hwy combined for the whole trip wife's best friend has a new 5.0 mustang and has got 28 on small trips with that you show me a 4x4 hemi ram that gets 22mpg and ill gladly eat my words and probably the truck too

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

Lloyd, where are you getting your numbers?  The 2023 Chevy 1500 w/ 5.3 V8 is rated at 16/20, while the 2023 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 hemi is rated at 15/22.

I'll guarantee you that if Chevy were regularly getting 22 or 23 mpg, there is no way GM would only be claiming 20.  And, as to the Ram forum, there are plenty of guys stating they get 22 or mpg WHEN they drive sanely.  And, most of those that complain about poor mileage acknowledge that they have trouble keeping their foot out of the throttle.  Just something about that Hemi.  I've only got 2500 miles on my Ram and haven't even done any strictly highway driving yet.  I live in a rural area, not town, but my office is just 5 1/2 miles from home.  So, most of my trips are very short.  The worst mileage I have gotten is 16.6 and the best was 20.1.  I'm looking forward to seeing just how much I get on the highway.

[Dee]

from the fact i owned two silverados with the most recent ls v8. a 2015vand a 2017. both got 22mpg on the hwy and if you kept it under 65 they might even see 23 on a trip. best ive ever got out of my 2020 ram is 18 and it is usualy 16-17. i trust my calculator more then what the government tells me. its no different in my challenger. its a 392 hemi and if driven 65 it will get 24mpg which isnt bad but my 2006 zo6 would do 29 on a trip if you drove it sanely. yuop a much lighter car but a buddy has a new ss Camaro and went to montana and back this summer and averaged 28 city/hwy combined for the whole trip wife's best friend has a new 5.0 mustang and has got 28 on small trips with that you show me a 4x4 hemi ram that gets 22mpg and ill gladly eat my words and probably the truck too

chev is still designing new v8sand is reporting big losses on there evs. its dodge i worry about. there already saying the next gen trucks will be a turbo 6 or ev with no r&d in a new v8. i own a ram but will admit the chev ls is a better motor. it has been upgraded at least 4 times since the hemi has come out with virtually no change unless you factor in the hellcat motor. the ls just might be the best v8 ever made. i like my ram but if the v8 goes away ill be driving a chev at least till they no longer make a v8. even if that means stepping up to a 3/4 ton. the hemi has decent bones but theres no excuse for it getting 5mpg less then a chev in comparable trucks.

Lloyd, where are you getting your numbers?  The 2023 Chevy 1500 w/ 5.3 V8 is rated at 16/20, while the 2023 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 hemi is rated at 15/22.

I'll guarantee you that if Chevy were regularly getting 22 or 23 mpg, there is no way GM would only be claiming 20.  And, as to the Ram forum, there are plenty of guys stating they get 22 or mpg WHEN they drive sanely.  And, most of those that complain about poor mileage acknowledge that they have trouble keeping their foot out of the throttle.  Just something about that Hemi.  I've only got 2500 miles on my Ram and haven't even done any strictly highway driving yet.  I live in a rural area, not town, but my office is just 5 1/2 miles from home.  So, most of my trips are very short.  The worst mileage I have gotten is 16.6 and the best was 20.1.  I'm looking forward to seeing just how much I get on the highway.

Mine is a 2018 with almost 80,000. I habitually set the cruise at 70mph and get 20 to 23mpg. It's a standard cab shortwide bed with a camper topper.

[Dixie-Dude]

Electric vehicles still have to fix the 3 major problems.  Longer Range, Faster Charging, and Lower prices.  Many are working on solid state batteries (with no liquid cores).  I know Toyota is working hard on Solid State batteries.  The promise is for 5 minute charge times and 900-1000 mile range.  They are supposed to be lower cost also.  If they get this, then they will eventually take over. 

Today a typical electric car for it's lifetime puts out 39 tons of carbon dioxide in it's manufacture and to charge them using fossil fuels.  A typical gasoline car puts out 59 tons of carbon dioxide in it's manufacture and burning fossil fuels it's entire lifetime.  Lifetimes were figured at 10 years and 200,000 miles.  So an electric car only helps decrease carbon dioxide about 1/3. 

Again the biggest problem with electric cars is it is like adding two homes on the grid for every car electric car sold.  With 200 million cars having to charge, the grid can't handle it.  More power plants and transmission lines will have to be installed.  This takes longer than building a car.  Wind especially needs transmission lines.  East Texas only gets 22% of the power produced by the windmills in West Texas because there are no transmission lines completed to carry the power.  The same is true with offshore windmills.  The left is getting the cart before the horse. 

Ford didn't get rid of the Mustang.  They make both a gasoline version and I saw an electric Mustang at the doctor's office the other day.  Why not make both for whatever people want?  I just don't think it should be forced. 

Once upon a time, people would get together and determine which direction does the most good for the least amount of money and effort.  Like say build more nuclear power plants, or put solar panels on flat top buildings and over parking lots for shade (especially in the south).  Or build more hydro dams.  More semi-underground homes, more insulation in homes.  At least work on everything, but incrementally and not cost the American people higher prices, rolling blackouts.  Things should be thought out and worked in over time.  What happened to planting more trees to soak up carbon dioxide? 

[ironglow]

   I won't miss the Camaro.... but EVs are still not the answer.

  Of course we, and anybody with life experience and any  intelligence, already knows that the "climate change" game..is just that..a game.

[Lloyd Smale]

by the way i looked it up and new chev 5.3 1/2 ton is rated at 19 city 22 hwy. ram 5.7 1/2 ton is 17 city 21 hwy and that is one with the e torque electric assist which i wanted nothing to do with when i bought mine. they claim it gives a 2mpg advantage. but you then have batterys that can go bad and it is your alternator too and i can just imagine the replacement cost. with it comes that stupid start stop crap so every time you stop you use your starter to get back going so its going to probably be used 10 times more then a non start stop truck. yes you can at least for now disable that function but with it will go a good part of you gas mileage advantage around town. i believe all new ram 5.7s are etorqe so you no longer have a choicei use my truck so didnt want some stripper with an open rear and gears in the low 300s. mine has the offroad package  that comes with a 1in lift bigger tires gas shocks and with an electric rear locker 391 gears. pretty much the same as my silverado z71s other then they have a posi and 373 gears. power wise id give a very small advantage to my ram but from what ive been told the new gm 10 speed has changed that to slightly favor the chevs. i have no reson to bs anyone. ive owned them both and would love to say i was smart enough to pick the more fuel efficent one but in the real world an ls silverado will whip the ram in gas mileage and comicaly it beat their own v6s and even the new turbo 4cyl that i have no clue why someone would buy

[Casull]

Again, don't know where you are getting your numbers.  I looked them up for the 2023 models and posted them.  I don't have e-torque or start/stop.  I did look at a Chevy first and it DID have the start/stop.  Also, from what I've been reading, the Ram 8 speed transmission is much better than the Chevy 10 speed.  Mine is a 2022 and the actual window sticker is 15/21, the 17 is combined mileage.  I'm getting better than that.

[Lloyd Smale]

looked them up on a dealershipweb site that showed complete window stickers with epa ratings right on it.dont which is a better transmission but chev uses it on their 650 hp vettes and camaros and dodge uses a more heavy duty one on there hellcat because the standard 8 speed wont hold up. but its just common sense a 10 speed would give better excelleration and fuel economy then an 8. but then chevs beat the hell out of rams in gas milage even with the 6 speeds i owned. like i said. why would i lie ? i owned both and would sure like to claim my ram did better but id rather give an honest real world opinion on what i actually owned and drove
https://www.ramforum.com/threads/ram-2021-2022-5-7-hemi-gas-mileage.186114/
https://chevroletforum.com/articles/tested-2015-chevrolet-silverado-5-3l-v8-fuel-economy/
hertes a typical 5.3 chev. granted he was driving to get the most. that said show me a ram 5.7 that will bust 24 and ill eat it. my 15 and 17 silverados never broke 24 but i saw many trips over 23. son in law just took my ram down state @500 miles round trip. 250 of it freeway with 75mph speed limits probably the other 250 split between town and rural two lanes. i just looked and its on 16.2. ive done the trip a number of times in my chevs and typically it was right on 20 or a tad better. ive talked to many ram owners that have pretty much the same results. now maybe a 2x4 with car tires driving 55 with the cruise on in the slow lane on a flat freeway with motor homes passing you might see 22 but that isnt MY real world

[Lloyd Smale]

honestly even 5mpg difference doesnt mean much to me. it doesnt make the difference if i can afford to go on a trip or not. ive already decided my next truck will be a 3/4 ton diesel. either a Cummins or a duramax and they sure arent fuel sippers. im just tired of fighting a half ton pulling my camper and boat. had it stuck in my mind for as much as i use them i could get away with a half ton. but hauled my camper down state with my other son in laws 3/4 ton diesel ram and the difference blew me away and thats only a 30 foot camper. with the 3/4 ton you could easily forget its behind you

[Casull]

Yeah, I'd say that the lift and oversized tires are probably costing you at least 2 or 3 mpg.

[Casull]

now maybe a 2x4 with car tires driving 55 with the cruise on in the slow lane on a flat freeway with motor homes passing you might see 22 but that isnt MY real world

LOL.  I don't drive anywhere at 55 and the tires are light truck tires on a 4x4.  Don't care for the noise, ride or lower mpg with oversized offroad tires.

[Lloyd Smale]

i use my truck off road. it sees mud all fall either going to camp or driving in muddy farm fields and deep snow in the winter.  the extra ground clearance helps alot and even more  so a tread pattern that will clean its self in the mud. i mostly run goodyear duratracs and have them on all 3 of my 4x4s right now. they are no noisier then a set of winter radials. they are also a 10ply rated tire so there good for hauling and resist punctures better then most. i guess my train of thought is if i can get away with the lame tires they put on it i might as well save some money and gas and drive a 2x4. cant say with certainty how many times good tires and that electric locker got me home instead of walking out. but its been many. one thing i will give this ram is with identical tires it does seem to do better then my chevs in the mud. probably due to a true locked rear with the electric locker and maybe weight distribution. its a mega cab and probably puts a little more weight on the rear tires. it also does a bit better on ice because a posi rear with clutches like my chevs tends to kick you sideways when it locks. i will totally concede that those big tires cost me 2 mpg. that is exactly what i lost. but with my cripled up old body they are well worth that if they keep me from walking out even once. granted im the exception. most 4x4s even around here rarely see a dirt road. most are bought because of our winters. by the way 33in tires arent huge tires. chev puts them on trail bosses and ram uses them on rebels. ive got 35s on my jeep and it makes those 33s look tiny.   

now maybe a 2x4 with car tires driving 55 with the cruise on in the slow lane on a flat freeway with motor homes passing you might see 22 but that isnt MY real world

LOL.  I don't drive anywhere at 55 and the tires are light truck tires on a 4x4.  Don't care for the noise, ride or lower mpg with oversized offroad tires.