Author Topic: Cinderella story..  (Read 353 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
Cinderella story..
« on: November 01, 2023, 11:55:05 AM »
   In the early 1950, stock cars were essentially STOCK..and kept so, by stringent rules.

   By the early 50s, there were several OHV V8s out there to compete..Cadillac, Oldsmobile,  Studebaker came along in '51, Dodge & Buick got an
   OHV V8 in '53 and Ford,Mercury, Lincoln had flathead V8s and went OHV in '54...

  The Olds rocket 88, was about top of the heap....uintil 1951.  Then along comes Marshall Teague, with a new Hudson..Hudson Hornet that is !

  Hudson motor cars didn't have any ideas on racing, they just wanted to build a good family car..so they equipped it with a flat head 6, carrying
   2 single barrel carburetors.

  Nobody else was on top of the heap at NASCAR, from 1951 through 1955....Kickin butt on V8s all along.

    The"Fabulous Hudson Hornet" story...         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XlRbVNantc

 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Bob Riebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7475
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2023, 02:07:37 PM »
What made the Hudson Hornet so fast?

The 308 cu in (5.0 L) engine produced high torque at low RPMs and had a fairly flat torque curve, which helped the Hornet beat V8s from other makes whose power advantage came only at much higher rpm.

Back then most of the tracks were one-half mile or less; low down torque means quick acceleration off of the corners. By the time the V-8s caught up , they were in the next corner, and the Hudson accelerated away again.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2023, 01:33:52 AM »
What made the Hudson Hornet so fast?

The 308 cu in (5.0 L) engine produced high torque at low RPMs and had a fairly flat torque curve, which helped the Hornet beat V8s from other makes whose power advantage came only at much higher rpm.

Back then most of the tracks were one-half mile or less; low down torque means quick acceleration off of the corners. By the time the V-8s caught up , they were in the next corner, and the Hudson accelerated away again.

    Bingo Bob..  That was a major part of their story.  I recall back in the 1950s when we had a babysitter, whose brother-in-law was racing modified,
    at a local dirt track.  ...Modified, mostly meaning the old 32-39 coupes with modern, modified power.

  He was an "also-ran" in most races.  Remembering what I learned from a fellow soldier who was an automotive engineer..I suggested he try a 6
   cylinder instead of the usual V8..  Mulling the idea over, he came up with a GMC 6 cyl, and although he did not dominate the track from then on,
   he made a much better account of himself

   It seems the 90 degree cut on the crank is what provides that low rpm torque.

  I still marvel at a 2 liter stock engine that puts out 416 hp... that's 104 hp per cylinder...

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M139_engine#:~:text=At%20310%20kW%20(416%20hp,or%20104%20hp%20per%20cylinder.
   
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18262
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2023, 07:30:45 AM »
keep in mind a flat head ford v8 only put out about 80 hp. take away drivetrain loses and it would be lucky to put 50 hp to the wheels. even the world changing 265 small block chev was only like a 165hp where a hornet put out 195. . hot rodders were getting near that out of a flat head v8 but at that level longevity was the problem. the hornet proved one thing that most car guys know. theres no replacement for displacement and the hornet just had more of it.
blue lives matter

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18262
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2023, 07:46:58 AM »
now if you look at racing about any type of car racing hp is more important then torque. a higher hp motor will about always put out more torque too. it just might do it at a higher rpm which simply requires the proper gear ratios to keep you in the sweet spot. nascar motors typically run 6-8k rpm around the track. they dont need torque at 3000rpm because the only time the motor is spinning that slow is on pit lane. where torque comes in is getting heavy loads moving but other then that hp is more important then torque.  when nascar has a race that is on a short track or road course that requires more acceleration the just change rear end gear ratios and ratios in the gear box
blue lives matter

Offline Bob Riebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7475
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2023, 02:18:40 PM »
While torque measures the turning force produced by a vehicle's engine and the engine's ability to perform work, horsepower measures how fast the engine can perform the work; Therefore, high torque makes an engine accelerate faster from a stop, and high horsepower makes for higher top speed.

If you gear for quicker acceleration you lose top speed.
A high torque engine can drop gear ration and win the acceleration game every time until torque peaks and horse power keeps rising.

Torque peaks between 2,000 and 6,000 rpm depending on engine.
When the Hudson won, 6,000 rpm max that was needed on a one-half mile or less track.

 The Hudson Hornet in 1951 with a novel arrangement whereby the chassis was in a unit with the body and the floor pan recessed in such a way that the passenger “stepped down” into the chassis. This lower car had a sleek look about it with enclosed rear wheels and a streamlined sloping tail. Sedans were as beautiful as the convertibles. Instead of the standard 145 horsepower engine one could order, in 1952, the “Twin-H” version with dual carburetors increasing the horsepower to 170 and then, with subsequent tuning (the so-called 7-X modification) up to 210 horsepower. This L- head engine was at the time “the largest six-cylinder engine in the world”. If the definition of a “muscle car” is a stock car which has factory performance alterations as an option, then Hudson may be the first post-war American muscle car.

With this low slung forgiving chassis style and powerful engine it’s no wonder it dominated NASCAR racing in the early 50s. During 1952 a team of three drivers won 27 NASCAR races for Hudson and in AAA racing, Marshall Teague drove his Hornet to 14 wins. Its NASCAR record in 1952 was 27 out of 34 grand national races, 22 out of 37 in 1953 and 17 out of 37 in 1954. This was a record hard to beat, specifically because NASCAR race cars were stock cars. By the end of 1954 Hudson Motor Car Company became part of American Motors who did not back racing.

Offline gene_225

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 950
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2023, 03:18:53 PM »
If I remember correctly the only problem was the Hornet didn't have an adequate water jacket which meant that it tended to overheat. We knew a gun trader in Omaha who had one and said he had to run the heater in the summer to keep from boiling over. A slight problem...

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella story..
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2023, 02:47:41 AM »
  Despite any criticisms we may hear today, one cannot deny the amazing record of the Hudson Hornets of the first half of the 1950s decade.

    As old Dan Boone and other long hunters may have said, " you can't make fun of the trapper..when the skins are on the wall !"

  Here's an interesting 5 min video..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1idqiyHcf0

   ..And of course, NASCAR's Hall of Fame..   https://www.nascarhall.com/blog/fabulous-hudson-hornets
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)