ordered me a high dollar shotgun

[Lloyd Smale]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/tokarev-12-ga-bullpup-shotgun-18-5-semi-auto-odg-tbp-12odg.html

figure if its any good it will be fun and if its a pos it will make a nice flag holder out in the yard. i had a siaga years ago and always regretted selling it. id take it to camp and the nephews would fill about a hundred water ballons and put 10 of the out at 50 yards and do a mag dump on them. make for a wicked home defence gun if its reliable

[moamonkey]

Awesome. Looking forward to a review. Not much to lose at that price.

[Ranger99]

Awesome. Looking forward to a review. Not much to lose at that price.

^ ^ ^ this

I know several people actively using imported
shotguns for hunting with good results.
The Benelli I had was a doozy, but it gathered
more cobwebs than it was used, so it went away.
Shame this country won't allow the talented gun
makers here to do their job.
And there's as many that can but won't

[Dee]

I put a Streamlight on my extra Sig P365 Macro. If a 17 shot magazine doesn't get it done, I've got an old Remington youth Model 870 Magnum 20 Guage loaded with 3" magnums in #4 shot.
The bullpup looks good, but one reviewer talked about the recoil, and the last few years I've avoided that.

[Lloyd Smale]

about the only thing good on me anymore are my shoulders arms and brain. i always had a pretty good tolerance to recoil in long guns and hand guns. i would have to think since its gas operated its not as bad as those candy asses posting those reviews claim. my old saiga 12 with 3 in felt about like a 20 with 3in. really ive never thought a 20 with 2 3/4 high brass kicked any less then a 12 with the same. most 20s are scaled down and weight a lb or more less and that makes up for a lot of it. even out of a pump 12 recoils no worse than an 06

[Dee]

I gave my nephew my 1100 which is gas operated. As far as the 20 kicking as hard as the 12, we don't agree. I quail hunted many years with an 1100 20 gage. I switched to 12 when I went into law enforcement.
There is no comparison to the 870 12, and the 870 20. They are different

[ironglow]

  Intweresting sidelight..

  A few years ago, my friend Charlie ordered from hid gun shop, a $28,000 Merkel shotgun for hjis friend.  He got upset, when the UPS guy
    just left the package in an unlicensed and unused pickup truck near his door.
 
   ..Don't know what he really expected though..  Fortunately, we don't seem to have the porch pirate problem around her..at least not from what
   I have heard.

  There is a gun club about 3 miles from my house, where many of my friends shoot.  great guys, and they have a nice assortment of  shotguns,
   Brownings, Berettas, Benellis etc.
     
  One of their locals got them all twisted awry, when he came and informally, outshot them all with his H&R shotgun...

  Below, see a nicely engraved Merkel rifle..

[Lloyd Smale]

well it goes bang 2 10 rond mags with buckshot hand loads one 10 round with fine shot and the 5 round with slug handloads and it ran them all like butter. sure would hate to be on the wrong end of that thing

[Lloyd Smale]

granted im a bit more recoil tolarent then some but we will have to disagree. i had a little 20 guage browning straigt grip upland special and with 3 in shell that little gun kick as much as any 12. when i sold it the first guy that bought it brought it back. now  if your talking 3 in slug loades ill agree with you.

I gave my nephew my 1100 which is gas operated. As far as the 20 kicking as hard as the 12, we don't agree. I quail hunted many years with an 1100 20 gage. I switched to 12 when I went into law enforcement.
There is no comparison to the 870 12, and the 870 20. They are different

[Ranger99]

It's a wonder the pinhead bureaucrats
haven't gone boo hoo on the shotguns
yet. An acquaintance was going back and
forth with a pinhead and they apparently
weren't aware that you can blow 9+
lead balls out of the end with every
trigger pull.

Some time back somebody was yakking
at me about that it was unethical to
shoot deer with a shotgun. I was like
Uh. . . This is called buckshot.
Don't you know why ?
Wasn't aware that much of the eastern
states were shotgun only hunting, and
those people have shotgun hunting
down to a science.

[Ranger99]

I've been pretty morose about sending
my nice shotguns down the road, but
they were gathering cobwebs and it
was a matter of time before the
creepers came along and made
off with them. District Attorney is
pretty much lax about theft

[Dixie-Dude]

Recoil from a semi is going to be somewhat lighter than a pump or over-under or side x side.  Person complaining about recoil probably never shot a 12 ga.  Anyway, I have a Benelli 3-1/2" magnum 12 gauge semi-auto.  After break in it handles light 2-3/4 12 ga bird shot with ease.  It is recoil operated.  Since the gun only weighed about 6.5 lbs, I put a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock and a Limbsaver recoil pad on it.  Hardly any recoil to notice.  My bolt actions 308 and 30-06 has more recoil.  I can get a short barrel and a magazine extension for it if I want to, and get 8-9 2-3/4 rounds in the magazine. 

Easy to clean since it is not gas operated.  You can take it down to the firing pin without any tools.  Benelli is expensive, but well worth it.  Now that their recoil patent has run out, Browning makes their new Auto-5's using the same system.  Same with a few other companies. 

The Russian designed shotgun is probably robust and using the AK gas system, as long as you can get magazines with more capacity for home defensive use. 

I love shooting sporting clays, skeet, trap, 5 stand and such.  Helps with hunting skills.  Walking long distances is my problem now.  Herniated disc affecting nerve going down my right leg.  Physical therapy has helped me a lot, and now I do it at home.  Used to love long walks in the woods stalk hunting, squirrel hunting, quail hunting.  Can't do it anymore.  So clays substitute as I can use a golf cart to ride to the sporting clay stands.  My sons won 1st and 2nd place in one tournament my company sponsored a few years ago.  One beat the other by 1 bird.   I remember when my youngest son cried when I first took him clay shooting as he could hardly hit a thing.  Worked with him and he improved over the years.  Loves it now, and he loves cowboy guns from watching westerns with me. 

[Ranger99]

Yeah,  one of the ones I sent away
was an M1 Super 90
Great piece of machinery.
Dove buster supreme.
Didn't have to do anything but give
a douche now and then to get the
plastic out of it 
No problems of any kind

[Lloyd Smale]

i bought 3 10 rounders. they make 25 round drums but i cant imagine needing 2 shots let alone 10 out of a 12guage to take care of the problem. had to chuckle though. my brother in law hunts turkey with a 3.5  inch mossberg but uses a 243 for deer and gave his 06 to his son

Recoil from a semi is going to be somewhat lighter than a pump or over-under or side x side.  Person complaining about recoil probably never shot a 12 ga.  Anyway, I have a Benelli 3-1/2" magnum 12 gauge semi-auto.  After break in it handles light 2-3/4 12 ga bird shot with ease.  It is recoil operated.  Since the gun only weighed about 6.5 lbs, I put a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock and a Limbsaver recoil pad on it.  Hardly any recoil to notice.  My bolt actions 308 and 30-06 has more recoil.  I can get a short barrel and a magazine extension for it if I want to, and get 8-9 2-3/4 rounds in the magazine. 

Easy to clean since it is not gas operated.  You can take it down to the firing pin without any tools.  Benelli is expensive, but well worth it.  Now that their recoil patent has run out, Browning makes their new Auto-5's using the same system.  Same with a few other companies. 

The Russian designed shotgun is probably robust and using the AK gas system, as long as you can get magazines with more capacity for home defensive use. 

I love shooting sporting clays, skeet, trap, 5 stand and such.  Helps with hunting skills.  Walking long distances is my problem now.  Herniated disc affecting nerve going down my right leg.  Physical therapy has helped me a lot, and now I do it at home.  Used to love long walks in the woods stalk hunting, squirrel hunting, quail hunting.  Can't do it anymore.  So clays substitute as I can use a golf cart to ride to the sporting clay stands.  My sons won 1st and 2nd place in one tournament my company sponsored a few years ago.  One beat the other by 1 bird.   I remember when my youngest son cried when I first took him clay shooting as he could hardly hit a thing.  Worked with him and he improved over the years.  Loves it now, and he loves cowboy guns from watching westerns with me.

[Dee]

This is a "common sense" chart where different shotgun guages produce different recoil levels based on "different payloads/shot charges".
With identical shotgun actions, velocities,  ect, the 20 Guage shotgun "will of course produce less recoil as it delivers a lesser payload" than the 12 Guage shotgun. A "common sense" issue that has been known sense the shotgun, or rifle for that matter,  has been in existence.

https://backfire.tv/shotgun-recoil-comparison/

[Dixie-Dude]

Surprised the 20 ga had more recoil than the 16 ga on the waterfowl shots. 

I've never felt a recoil when killing a deer or shooting and hitting something.  Hmm.  It only recoils when I test a gun.  Kind of like a huge buck you shoot and the antlers shrink when it hits the ground. 

[Lloyd Smale]

ive put a 100 rounds through it so far. buck slugs and fine and it has missed a beat. no light field loads though because thats not what a bought it for. it shot a 5 shot group with a slug i casted that went 4 inch at 50 using the vortex red dot i put on it. so its a decent gun. that said the trigger is about as bad as it gets. sometimes i hesitate because i think the safeties on. mag release and bolt release are ar styled units but you have to take the gun off your shoulder to push them and the mags at least the ones i have dont drop free. so your best bet is to blow the hell out whatever your shooting at with the first 10   it came with flip up sites that are cheap plastic that id never have on a gun i depend on so it got a pair of magpuls out of the parts drawer. take down completely and i mean completely only takes a few minutes and it does kind of have an ak vibe going on with the internals. bottom line is its a hell of a gun for 200 bucks even the 250 it would cost not on sale. if the trigger was just bad and not terrible id buy another one

[Dee]

Surprised the 20 ga had more recoil than the 16 ga on the waterfowl shots. 

I've never felt a recoil when killing a deer or shooting and hitting something.  Hmm.  It only recoils when I test a gun.  Kind of like a huge buck you shoot and the antlers shrink when it hits the ground.

That was a little surprising. My issues are a torn rotator cuff on both shoulders, and a torn bicep muscle in both arms. Its as much the weight, as it is the recoil. Both injuries in both shoulders have caused a loss of strength in both.
The 20 guage is lighter in weight, and recoil, and makes for a good bird gun.

[ironglow]

  I guess I am a bore, but I never understood the "mag dump" routine.  I suppose it may be because after doing "mag dump" with 30 cal, 50 cal, claymores, grenades, rocket launchers, 90mm etc.,....even detonating cord..maybe it is just "old hat"...

[Graybeard]

For me a high dollar shotgun was my Krieghoff O/U with Perbaugh tube set so it shot all four skeet gauges. I paid $12,500 for it back in the day when I was still working and still had some money I could spend. I bought several Browning O/U shotguns at $1500 to $3800 each.

They are all gone as are my shoulders. Like Dan I have issues with both. The right was operated on for rotator cuff but is again hurting. The left needs replacement but I don't think I'm gonna have it done. I've found a joint supplement from Amazon that is really helping with it and allows me some use of the shoulder again.

[Ranger99]

. . . . . . I've found a joint supplement from Amazon that is really helping with it and allows me some use of the shoulder again.

Well dadgum it !
Don't stop in the middle of the high water.

Share.  What exactly is it  ?
Or start a new something in a different part
of the sections,  wherever achey joint potions go

[Graybeard]

I made a post to the appropriate forum on this supplement Ranger. Here is the link to that post:

https://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=305623.new#new

[Lloyd Smale]

God thats purdy

For me a high dollar shotgun was my Krieghoff O/U with Perbaugh tube set so it shot all four skeet gauges. I paid $12,500 for it back in the day when I was still working and still had some money I could spend. I bought several Browning O/U shotguns at $1500 to $3800 each.

They are all gone as are my shoulders. Like Dan I have issues with both. The right was operated on for rotator cuff but is again hurting. The left needs replacement but I don't think I'm gonna have it done. I've found a joint supplement from Amazon that is really helping with it and allows me some use of the shoulder again.

[Graybeard]

Was the single most purdy shotgun I ever owned Lloyd.

The entire stock and forend were beautifully grained on ever square inch. I've never seen such a beautiful stock before or since. I felt fortunate to be the care taker of such a beautiful gun for awhile.

I sold it thru the same dealer I bought it from to another individual. He was at a match with some friends and they all put all guns into one guy's trunk while they went to eat. When they returned all the guns had been stolen.

[Dee]

I owned a Browning Satori for almost an entire dove season. I likely shot better with it than any shotgun I ever owned.
But it only shot twice and you were done. My all time favorite however, was the older Remington Model 1100 in 20 guage.

[Lloyd Smale]

mine was a sidelock grade 3 browning side by side 20. also had a red label 20 and a browning citori the side by side was beautiful and the other two were hind of plain but none hold a candle to that one you had bill. paying off my ex in the divorce took care of all three of them and 23 total.

[ironglow]

For me a high dollar shotgun was my Krieghoff O/U with Perbaugh tube set so it shot all four skeet gauges. I paid $12,500 for it back in the day when I was still working and still had some money I could spend. I bought several Browning O/U shotguns at $1500 to $3800 each.

They are all gone as are my shoulders. Like Dan I have issues with both. The right was operated on for rotator cuff but is again hurting. The left needs replacement but I don't think I'm gonna have it done. I've found a joint supplement from Amazon that is really helping with it and allows me some use of the shoulder again.

  Bill, if you know somebody with a stock cutting machine . and will do some sanding, you can have a beautiful stock on any gun.  My grandson
  works in and deals with, this type woods every day.   
   https://www.facebook.com/groups/2445848135494253/?multi_permalinks=6869950669750622%2C6869154939830195&notif_id=1700926621094908&notif_t=group_activity&ref

[Lloyd Smale]

yup but you can slap a 1500 dollar stock on a 311 savage and its still a 311 and you will loose money selling it where bills Krieghoff is worth more every day. ive got a buddy thats a very talented stock maker. hes made stocks for people all around the world. he did two for me. one on an interarms 2506 barreled action and the other on a 700 06. both were done with AAA english walnut and were done in the 80s with a friend discount that was a hundred bucks over the 600 dollar blank. today those stocks would set you back a couple grand and truthfully if i sold them they MIGHT add 200 bucks to the value. there still just an interarms and a 700 rem. i couldnt get back what i paid in the 80s. at least not around here.

[ironglow]

  Understood...I was just speaking for the beauty of the wood, not intrinsic value..

  But a choice piece of wood, can turn a simple duck call or kit built guitar, into a treasured gift..

[Lloyd Smale]

that guitar is something