..Still doubt that Obama runs the White house ?

[ironglow]

So a place of residence is now evidence. That's really reaching.

  Only inasmuch as if I built a house  in Death Valley,...you may assume I don't mind warm weather...  

[Mule 11]

Possession is 9 10ths of the law...

[Dee]

So a place of residence is now evidence. That's really reaching.

  Only inasmuch as if I built a house  in Death Valley,...you may assume I don't mind warm weather...  

Ass-u-&-me

[Mule 11]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

[gypsyman]

 With todays communications, internet, money transfers, I don't think it matters where somebody lives. Within in minute's, somebody can ''drop a dime'' as we use to say, and convince a politician to vote yea or na, push a bill, or keep their mouth shut. They could live next door, or maybe China, doesn't matter.

[DDZ]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

Looking at things through an eye of common sense would cause someone to think that Obama has somewhat of a hand in things. I have noticed how dementia Joe still mentions Obama often. Using phrases like "Obama and I"  The communists didn't spend all that time training up Obama for him to drift off into the sunset.   

[ironglow]

 .
   Perhaps if some folks had read Obama's books, and saw things in his own words...

[Dee]

With todays communications, internet, money transfers, I don't think it matters where somebody lives. Within in minute's, somebody can ''drop a dime'' as we use to say, and convince a politician to vote yea or na, push a bill, or keep their mouth shut. They could live next door, or maybe China, doesn't matter.

Agreed

[Dixie-Dude]

Well, almost ALL of Biden's staff is from the Obama staff, as well as all the advisors.  Hmm.  Don't need too much other proof.  Obama favored Muslims, and he favored socialism/communism.  All this was in his books.  So we have pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses and in New York, even after the cold bloodied murdered the Israelis.  Archeological evidence shows the Jews were in Israel 3,000 years ago, before the Muslims.  Some Palestinians were told this and didn't believe it.  They though it was Jewish propaganda. 

Anyway, Obama's policies were also socialist.  He wanted universal health care which is expensive and only gives the lowest common denominator service.  Rich people in foreign countries with socialized medicine come to the US for operations.  Why?  His administration came up with the common core math, and now think math is racist, because it is so hard for minorities.  Not completely true, but yeah, that is what they believe.  They also don't want parents to have a say in their childs education.  They are all about control, control of everything in your lives.  They also don't want you to eat meat. 

The list is long.  Wake up people.  Global warming fear is all about control, not solutions. 

[ironglow]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

  ....Zactly !!  I have for so long, tried to provoke enlightening, and useful debate or discussion on various subjects.  Some do join in  useful
  dialog, but others only seem to want to ridicule or mock, rather than engage.  Ohh well...

[ironglow]

Well, almost ALL of Biden's staff is from the Obama staff, as well as all the advisors.  Hmm.  Don't need too much other proof.  Obama favored Muslims, and he favored socialism/communism.  All this was in his books.  So we have pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses and in New York, even after the cold bloodied murdered the Israelis.  Archeological evidence shows the Jews were in Israel 3,000 years ago, before the Muslims.  Some Palestinians were told this and didn't believe it.  They though it was Jewish propaganda. 

Anyway, Obama's policies were also socialist.  He wanted universal health care which is expensive and only gives the lowest common denominator service.  Rich people in foreign countries with socialized medicine come to the US for operations.  Why?  His administration came up with the common core math, and now think math is racist, because it is so hard for minorities.  Not completely true, but yeah, that is what they believe.  They also don't want parents to have a say in their childs education.  They are all about control, control of everything in your lives.  They also don't want you to eat meat. 

The list is long.  Wake up people.  Global warming fear is all about control, not solutions.

   You're "spot on"..  His books laid out his views and plans, even before he took office..

  Funny how that works, isn't it...Mao, Hitler, Marx, Mussolini and other tyrants wrote books prior to their rise..explaining their intentions.
   Even Saddam Hussein wrote novels, which presaged his nature as a dictator.
   
  So Obama wrote books..as he ran for office, a perceptive person may want to discover thing about him, by way of his auto-biography,
  after all, who could explain his urges better?

 Often, what a person reads can be a clue to their nature..no secret both Obama & Hillary, read and admired Saul Alinsky..

  Joe?  I don't know..he was probably reading comic books ! 

[darkgael]

no secret both Obama & Hillary, read and admired Saul Alinsky

Clarification....not disagreement. Why do you say "admired"?

[Dee]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

Says the queen of one liners, with zero input.

[ironglow]

no secret both Obama & Hillary, read and admired Saul Alinsky

Clarification....not disagreement. Why do you say "admired"?

   Hillary wrote her thesis on Saul Alinsky..and spoke glowingly of his work.  She had a continuing correspondence with him until his demise.

  https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/politics-news/hillary-clinton-mentor-saul-alinsky-explored-two-new-films-941304/

  Frankly, I would have little to do with anybody who dedicates their work to and writes glowingly of, Lucifer.

   

[Mule 11]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

Says the queen of one liners, with zero input.

Says the little d with a one liner.

[ironglow]

Speculation, theory, and now assume... no conversation or debate. I have a word. Ridicule. If ya got nothin else. Seems to work for Saul alinskys followers. I have no dea how much power the marxist has but he is definitely pulling some strings and deep in the wood pile...

   Mule hads Alinsky pretty much "spot on"..  Here'an introduction to and enumeration of his 13 rules for radicals.. Note how the left uses these
    deceptive and immoral tactics..   ...And they are not completely alone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     " Barack Obama used the ideas on his path to the US presidency. Hilary Clinton wrote her thesis on his work. And grassroots movements, from both the left and now the right, treat his work as the template for action. 

Yet many people have never heard of the American Saul Alinsky. He is thought to be the founder of modern community organizing and wrote one of the most influential works on setting up grassroots movements: the 1971 book Rules For Radicals. The basic philosophy was to give power to the have-nots. In his introduction, he wrote:

‘WHAT FOLLOWS IS for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away.’

The book goes on to give lessons on how to take power away from the ‘haves’. Naturally, it was heavily used by the countercultural movement in the 1970s but has increasingly been used in mainstream political campaigns. Perhaps the most enduring part of the book is Alinsky’s 13 rules for radicals. Here they are with some of his additional notes:

  1.       ‘Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.’ Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.

2.        ‘Never go outside the expertise of your people.’ the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

3.       ‘Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.’ Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

4.       ‘Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.’ You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

5.       ‘Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.’ It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

6.       ‘A good tactic is one your people enjoy.’ If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

7.       ‘A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.’ Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday mornings. New issues and crises are always developing, and one’s reaction becomes, “Well, my heart bleeds for those people and I’m all for the boycott, but after all, there are other important things in life”—and there it goes.

8.        ‘Keep the pressure on. Never let up.’ [Use] different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

9.       ‘The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.’

10.   ‘The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.’ It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign. It should be remembered not only that the action is in the reaction but that action is itself the consequence of reaction and of reaction to the reaction, ad infinitum. The pressure produces the reaction, and constant pressure sustains action.

11.    ‘If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside [positive].’ This is based on the principle that every positive has its negative. We have already seen the conversion of the negative into the positive, in Mahatma Gandhi’s development of the tactic of passive resistance.

12.    ‘The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.’ You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying ‘You’re right—we don’t know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us.’

13.   ‘Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.’ the opposition must be singled out as the target and “frozen.”…in a complex, interrelated, urban society, it becomes increasingly difficult to single out who is to blame for any particular evil. There is a constant…passing of the buck. …Obviously there is no point to tactics unless one has a target upon which to center the attacks…  he attacks… If an organization permits responsibility to be diffused and distributed in a number of areas, attack becomes impossible. 
.

[Casull]

I'm a fan of Occum's Razer.  Have you considered that he was a community organizer, hit the big time, and doesn't want to leave the limelight?

[ironglow]

I'm a fan of Occum's Razer.  Have you considered that he was a community organizer, hit the big time, and doesn't want to leave the limelight?

  Occam's razor, would probably have him as head of Hezbollah..

[darkgael]

how the left uses these
    deceptive and immoral tactics..   ...And they are not completely alone.

They are surely not alone. Despite the fact that those rules for radicals were penned by an avowed communist, they are not “communist” rules. They are general political procedures for organizing voters and winning elections. Alinsky may have organized them neatly but they existed and were in use long before he came along. Take a hard look at how any political party ptrepares for an election and you will find these tactics being applied.
You comment that these are immoral. How is that so?

[darkgael]

I have to add that Alinsky’s dedicstion to the “first radical” is , indeed , informative.  Alinsky’ s  admiration for Lucifer/Satan’s  accomplishment is perverse. What Lucifer won was a dungeon of pain and suffering..Lucifer, though, is an overweening egotist. One wonders if Alinsky understood that. I

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. [ 255 ]
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.

[ironglow]

With todays communications, internet, money transfers, I don't think it matters where somebody lives. Within in minute's, somebody can ''drop a dime'' as we use to say, and convince a politician to vote yea or na, push a bill, or keep their mouth shut. They could live next door, or maybe China, doesn't matter.

   Conversely, with modern eavesdropping and surveillance methods, when folks in politics want something to REMAIN private, they meet in an
     "unbugged" common area !

  Have we already forgotten hoe bill Clinton met with Loretta lynch on the airstrip.. ostensiubly to talk about a kids birthday party, or some such thing..
   https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-bill-clinton-loretta-lynch-meet-on-tarmac-in-phoenix/
.

[TrumpWon]

Or the secret meeting with the Russians at Trump Tower in 2016

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Tower_meeting

[ironglow]

I have to add that Alinsky’s dedicstion to the “first radical” is , indeed , informative.  Alinsky’ s  admiration for Lucifer/Satan’s  accomplishment is perverse. What Lucifer won was a dungeon of pain and suffering..Lucifer, though, is an overweening egotist. One wonders if Alinsky understood that. I

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. [ 255 ]
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.

 
   Alinsky's dedication must be taken at face value.  What kind if a professor would write a complete book or treatise, and then dedicate it to an
   unknown?
      No, he must have known, and the knowledge of whom Satan is, is hardly hidden information.  Again; what author dedicates a book to somebody
     he/she hardly knows?

   " John 8:44
King James Version
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

  So, since he dedicates his book to the chief among liars..how honest can any of his writings be?

  There are further descriptions of Satan..of which he smust have been familiar, before dedication..oris he dedicated to Satan?

  https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_80.cfm

   BTW:  Where did you pull that below quote from?  It is not Biblical, and sounds more like something from Milton's "Paradise Lost"..

  That last line of the quote is  a real chuckle.. The author must know, nobody rules in Hell, not even Satan, since he will be too busy in the Lake
   of Fire, to pull any more shenannigans.

        "Quote
The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. [ 255 ]
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heaven"
.

[darkgael]

The quote was, indeed, pulled from Book one of "Paradise Lost" in about the middle of the ninth paragraph (starting with "Is this the region").
What I was asking was whether Alinsky really understood what Lucifer/Satan had "won". Having read through Milton many times, I am not sure that Satan really understood what he had. In the same way, I am certain that those who espouse Communism do not really understand what they are asking for.
Given that Alinsky was s dedicated Communist and almost certainly an atheist, I doubt that Satan held any sway with him at all.

[ironglow]

The quote was, indeed, pulled from Book one of "Paradise Lost" in about the middle of the ninth paragraph (starting with "Is this the region").
What I was asking was whether Alinsky really understood what Lucifer/Satan had "won". Having read through Milton many times, I am not sure that Satan really understood what he had. In the same way, I am certain that those who espouse Communism do not really understand what they are asking for.
Given that Alinsky was s dedicated Communist and almost certainly an atheist, I doubt that Satan held any sway with him at all.

 
  Sorry...but if I were to dedicatea book to hungry Hank...I would first find out if hungry Hank were in line with my beliefs or in line with what I just
    published.

  If Pres Trump were to dedicate a book to Hitler..would you not question his dedication?  ..And Hitler was only an acolyte to Satan.. and
   probably not the first line offence..


  Alinsky is supposed to be bright..methinks perhaps you cut him too much slack !

[TrumpWon]

Alinsky did not dedicate a book to Satan.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/saul-alinsky-dedicated-rules-for-radicals-to-lucifer/

[darkgael]

Pres Trump were to dedicate a book to Hitler..would you not question his dedication?

Surely. You need to take a closer look at Alinsky's comment and consider what a dedication actually is. That isn't. Understand that I am not defending Alinsky....I do get the feeling when you write that I am cutting him too much slack that you misunderstand my point about Alinsky. His comment that the "first radical" had "won his own kingdom" is in line with Alinsky's philosophy of change.....sadly so because, like all communists, he is wishing for a dungeon.....which is what Satan/Lucifer "won".
I was not cutting any slack at all. I am sure Alinsky knew about Lucifer...who he was, etc. I do not think that he saw that his communism would lead to: loss of personal freedoms, overbearing and intrusive gov't, a very grey life. If he saw a rosy future, a workers paradise of an empowered content proletariat...he was wrong.

[Dee]

After some research, I found that the book in question was not dedicated to Lucifer , but was actually dedicated to Alinskys wife. The mention of Satan/Lucifer seems to have been a tongue in cheek comment of community organizers.
Before I'm accused of defending Alinsky I'm just stating facts, which some folks habitually get twisted in their analogies.

[Dixie-Dude]

Alinsky was a communist through and through.  He however wasn't a Bolshivik that pushed violent take over of government an all private ownership of property.  His methods were to be done slow and methodical so as to have a slow take over of government and the economy.  During Covid, they pushed the government to shut down everything, forced masked mandates as well as vaccinations of the RNA virus, not a full vaccine using the Covid DNA like all vaccines before it.  The vaccines didn't really work as many people still got Covid after being vaccinated 2,3, or 4 times.  They want to take over energy using "global warming" as an excuse.  They want to overwhelm our government with illegals, and huge benefits for the "poor".  They advocate taking over of the medical system using a "lowest common denominator" government system.  They now are pushing to take over pensions, 401k's and retirement IRA's which would destroy my lifestyle making it so hard for me to pay my bills and maintain my home after I worked 40 years paying into a 401k and putting aside money for retirement for years.  Not fair to me for my hard work.  I paid my own way through school, no student loans and bailouts, raised 7 kids with no welfare or food stamps, but gardens, hunting & fishing, and hard work, like drawing house plans on the side, even helping a painter friend of mine to paint apartments when he was pushed to get through during semester breaks in college. 

Now, I have some lazy entitled grandchildren in their 20's not finishing school, no getting a skill, some still living at home with their parents.  They will end up in a socialist America with practically nothing and are supposed to be happy about it? 

[ironglow]

Alinsky did not dedicate a book to Satan.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/saul-alinsky-dedicated-rules-for-radicals-to-lucifer/

   Alinsky's words;

    " Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer. — SAUL ALINSKY   

     Whether one considers it a dedication, endorsement or personal affinity...Alinsky for sure, offered a favorable assessment of old Satan himself !
.