Author Topic: ... Some are claiming..  (Read 2161 times)

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Offline ironglow

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... Some are claiming..
« on: December 10, 2023, 10:40:49 AM »
.
   
  ...Claiming that King Charles is a secret Muslim..  https://www.weeklyblitz.net/opinion/king-charles-the-first-muslim-monarch-of-the-united-kingdom/

    https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2022/09/12/politics-propelling-conversion-of-king-charles-iii/

   Below, see him praising Islam, to the detriment of Christianity.  King Charles is supposed to be spiritual head of the Anglican church (Church of
   England).

   He sure has to ignore a great deal..to speak of Islam and "women's rights" !
 
If Charlie has gone "off the rails"..what happens to the Anglican church?  Or for that matter, the Eiscoupal or Congregational churches here in the USA ?

   https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Lb4qToErrHQ
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)
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Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2023, 10:43:52 AM »
I don't care if he worships Mickey Mouse.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett
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Offline ironglow

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2023, 11:06:48 AM »
I don't care if he worships Mickey Mouse.

  Maybe that too!  :D ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2023, 12:25:08 PM »
His mother saw Billy Graham 2-3 times and he talked to her about salvation.  Billy Graham was checked on by one of the news outlets back in the 70's and they found out he only took the salary from his association that matched what the average American family brought home.  So he was a great man.  Preached only salvation and told the converts to find an evangelical church to attend.  I was saved at a Billy Graham crusade on May 19, 1972.  I filled out a form after accepting Christ as my savior.  His association mailed me a course to read and fill out the answers and mail back in, and they sent me another one to fill out and mail back in.  The first course was on the Gospel of John as to who Jesus was and how I was Born Again.  Anyway, learned a lot and then went to my local Baptist Church.  I read the Bible through in just a couple of months.  Then read it in about 2-3 other versions, and they all said the same thing.  Soaked up everything. 

Anyway, I don't get it.  All these pro-Palistinian marches and they were nothing but murderers and rapists.  No Western nation acts like that or treats civilians like that.  Even during WWII the Germans respected us far more than the Russians.  Hamas is just plain Evil. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2023, 01:46:05 PM »
His mother saw Billy Graham 2-3 times and he talked to her about salvation.  Billy Graham was checked on by one of the news outlets back in the 70's and they found out he only took the salary from his association that matched what the average American family brought home.  So he was a great man.  Preached only salvation and told the converts to find an evangelical church to attend.  I was saved at a Billy Graham crusade on May 19, 1972.  I filled out a form after accepting Christ as my savior.  His association mailed me a course to read and fill out the answers and mail back in, and they sent me another one to fill out and mail back in.  The first course was on the Gospel of John as to who Jesus was and how I was Born Again.  Anyway, learned a lot and then went to my local Baptist Church.  I read the Bible through in just a couple of months.  Then read it in about 2-3 other versions, and they all said the same thing.  Soaked up everything. 

Anyway, I don't get it.  All these pro-Palistinian marches and they were nothing but murderers and rapists.  No Western nation acts like that or treats civilians like that.  Even during WWII the Germans respected us far more than the Russians.  Hamas is just plain Evil. 


Billy Grahams salary in 2005 was a little over $450,000.00 a year, and he  had a net worth of 25 million dollars at the time of his death.

His son Franklin is doing even better.

https://money.com/billy-graham-net-worth-quotes-money-greed/
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2023, 11:18:51 PM »
amazes me why people give a crap about that family. they dont even rule in their own country. if i was living there id be protesting every day over what it costs to keep them in those castles. than the hypocrite is a big fan of far left global warming bs but flys in private jets and has one of the biggest yachts in the world. cruise around in land rovers that get 15 mpg. probably use more fossil fuel for their castle and transportation in a month than you and I in 5 years. 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2023, 02:05:28 AM »
His mother saw Billy Graham 2-3 times and he talked to her about salvation.  Billy Graham was checked on by one of the news outlets back in the 70's and they found out he only took the salary from his association that matched what the average American family brought home.  So he was a great man.  Preached only salvation and told the converts to find an evangelical church to attend.  I was saved at a Billy Graham crusade on May 19, 1972.  I filled out a form after accepting Christ as my savior.  His association mailed me a course to read and fill out the answers and mail back in, and they sent me another one to fill out and mail back in.  The first course was on the Gospel of John as to who Jesus was and how I was Born Again.  Anyway, learned a lot and then went to my local Baptist Church.  I read the Bible through in just a couple of months.  Then read it in about 2-3 other versions, and they all said the same thing.  Soaked up everything. 

Anyway, I don't get it.  All these pro-Palistinian marches and they were nothing but murderers and rapists.  No Western nation acts like that or treats civilians like that.  Even during WWII the Germans respected us far more than the Russians.  Hamas is just plain Evil.

   Thanks for your testimony DD..  It brings joy to hear of such moving stories of conversion.  Your immediate hunger to get into the word, serves as a form of confirmation of your salvation.  Before asking Jesus as my Savior, I often struggled to gain the real message from the Bible, but it seems that after being saved, it was almost an overnight enlightening.. I could well understand it..

    Surely it would seem that Billy Graham must be the 20th century version of St Paul.

   ..And again..."it is hard to criticize the trapping, when the skins are on the wall"..

  Many versions can be found of accounts of Graham's wage scale..real or imagined.  As with any other public figure, it depends upon who you
  choose as your "authority"..

   ..And whose word we accept, may well reflect upon what we want to find when we search. Any of us..nay, probably most of us, seek confirmation
     of our suspicions, when we search.

   There seems to be a wide disparity of estimates, depending upon whom we consult.  For instance, Huff Post, Mother Jones or Washington Post
   may come to a different conclusion than some Christian publications or local news services.

  After a cursory search, I found one report that seemed to be reasonable...but likely would be dispiuted, depending upon whatever one's
   perspective may be.
      https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1998/10/18/graham-shows-followers-the-money/
.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2023, 02:06:42 AM »
Net worth means nothing.  Almost all of their money is tied up in the Association.  It costs money to have large meetings, rent stadiums, support doctors and nurses with Samaritans purse.  I think they are including all the Association.  It is like a Church.  The pastor doesn't own the building or anything the church owns.  He has a board of directors that approve everything. 

I know you hate evangelists, but good grief.  Pastors get paid more when they evangelize, get people to join the church and grow the church. 
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2023, 05:44:06 AM »
i dont have a clue how protestant churches do it. if a pastor opens a church in a small town does he buy it or does the baptist church own it. my brother in law is ultra liberal. so much so that he either didnt agree with the methodist church he went to (and to leave the methodist church proves how liberal he is) so he and another guy bought an old church in town and are now pastors of it. still protestant but started ANOTHER protestant faith. he was a decon at the methodist church and no doubt it was an ego fight between him and the pastor. now can he claim to be a pastor of a church he started without any formal training beyond being a decon?

confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere. church has studied the bible for almost 2000 years and arent looking for hidden meanings anymore. go to a catholic church in texas Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him.

 our last priest came out against homosexuality and his belief that a homo should get holy communion. he did it because there are a couple of them in our church and they kept coming up and he kept not giving it to them. he said during mass that they shouldnt come upo. he said there welcome to attend but no communion. 6 people walked out that day 2 were homos and the other 4 were teachers. they rallied a group that went to the next parish meeting and they tried jumping on him. he told them all to pound sand and if they didnt like it there was many other churches in town but this one was HIS. i dont think id want to go to a church where the pastor has to teach what hes told and how he tells it. church isnt a popularity contest
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Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2023, 06:38:25 AM »
Net worth means nothing.  Almost all of their money is tied up in the Association.  It costs money to have large meetings, rent stadiums, support doctors and nurses with Samaritans purse.  I think they are including all the Association.  It is like a Church.  The pastor doesn't own the building or anything the church owns.  He has a board of directors that approve everything. 

I know you hate evangelists, but good grief.  Pastors get paid more when they evangelize, get people to join the church and grow the church.

No, you don't know any such thing, me hating evangelists. Your making that up, and you've never heard, or seen me say any such thing (not very Christian BTW). You just think you know, because you don't want to believe the truth, so you try and shift the bad news back on me. You claim to always want the truth, but here you are, upset with the truth.
Here are some pictures of his humble abode valued north of $600,000.00. Not bad for a preacher. And no, his personal net worth, is HIS PERSONAL NET WORTH. Like  it,  or not,  the man was a millionaire.
His son, Franklin Grahams' salary is north of $1,000,000.00 per year.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2023, 09:45:26 AM »
yup he claims he follows Jesus Christ but didnt Jesus say give Ceasor what is Ceasor's. he didnt say go buy a benz and a private plane and spred my word in 1000 dollar suits
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Offline ironglow

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2023, 09:57:05 AM »
i dont have a clue how protestant churches do it. if a pastor opens a church in a small town does he buy it or does the baptist church own it. my brother in law is ultra liberal. so much so that he either didnt agree with the methodist church he went to (and to leave the methodist church proves how liberal he is) so he and another guy bought an old church in town and are now pastors of it. still protestant but started ANOTHER protestant faith. he was a decon at the methodist church and no doubt it was an ego fight between him and the pastor. now can he claim to be a pastor of a church he started without any formal training beyond being a decon?

    I have known of one case where the pastor was owner/operator, and have heard of others.  In any case, that is not usually conducive to a  properly run church.  In most cases with independant churches, the ecclesia (members) owns and support the local church.
 Some churches insist on X number of years in formal education, almost all expect some formal education, but still leaders are chosen with much hinging uponn their  accumulated wisdom, maturity in their handling of the word. 
   Of course, in order to choose leaders, the members should be relatively well versed in Bible knowledge, so they are well armed and informed to make a wide choice.  Keep in mind, of the apostles, only Paul and Luke enjoyed any advanced education


confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere. church has studied the bible for almost 2000 years and arent looking for hidden meanings anymore. go to a catholic church in texas Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him.

  I certainly do not want to come off as rude..and yes the Roman church has been " in the business" for 20 centuries...  Of course there have been numerous revisions by sizeable portions of their adherents, to include such as Huss, Luther, Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and others.

  Of course, by bringing in their revisions, necessitated their leaving the former group.

  ..But just as today..the United Methodists are splitting, the Southern Baptists are splitting, along with others, over doctrinal differences.  So, with each of these groups partings,  the Southern Baptists vs the rest, the United Methodists vs the rest, and the Roman Catholics vs Luther, Knox, Wycliffe, or Pieter De Bruis,
 
   After theb split, which one more closely adheres to the original concept and doctrines of "the church" ?  That is the question each saved person must answer for themself.


 our last priest came out against homosexuality and his belief that a homo should get holy communion. he did it because there are a couple of them in our church and they kept coming up and he kept not giving it to them. he said during mass that they shouldnt come upo. he said there welcome to attend but no communion. 6 people walked out that day 2 were homos and the other 4 were teachers. they rallied a group that went to the next parish meeting and they tried jumping on him.

   Just as with the non RC communities, there seems to be notable disagreements in basic doctrine.  It is not as if the RC Church is one monolithic organization...in agreement concerning every issue.  Pope is basically boss, and when we look at just trhe few past years, w find Benedict to have been as much a "by the book" as any Pope of the last 50 years..yet this Francis is almost the  mirror opposite.

  For the last few decades, has there not been a sizeable number of active Catholics, pressing for female priests...and even abortion?   

  Keep in mind, the pope recently fired a bishop, because the bishop was strongly against abortion and gay marriage..


  https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/pope-fancis-joseph-strickland-removed-conservative-texas-bishop-catholic-church/#:~:text=Pope%20Francis%20fired%20a%20Texas,over%20s

  I am not picking on the RC Church here...many non-RC churches are deep into apostacy ... but when a pope fires a bishop over exactly what your post refers to..isn't that more or less, "the pot calling the stove black"?

   Now, to your other statements...  " Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him."

   I wouldn't stay with a church where any "clique' runs it..  And for sure no heirarchy controls the local, independant church..because rthere is
   none...but then the pastor is  not a dictator either.

   " confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere"

   Actually, the 'rules' for the church are universal for all Christian churches..in the give-or-take 1775 pages of the Bible.  Some chutrches do a better       
    job than others, with keeping the rules (doctrine).

  To have an effective church body, the members should be well educated in basic Bible, so they can make wise choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15)
     ...and

      "11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."  (Acts 17:11)
.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Online Bob Riebe

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2023, 10:11:52 AM »
synods/congregations have doctrines; God's word is a dogma that cannot be altered.

Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2023, 12:31:41 PM »
Apparently Billy Grahams actual salary,  and net worth is so unsettling to some, that they are thrown into denial, and doubt of sources. I find it amazing, and amusing that folks who say that they want truth, only want it when the truth is what they THINK it is. For instance, ironglow is trying to dispell Grahams salary, and net worth, by posting operating costs which have ZERO to  do with  Grahams salary or net worth. Note that no disparaging words have been said here about Graham, but his wealth seems to bother his supporters.

Heres another one. The Christian Post.


https://www.christianpost.com/news/billy-graham-net-worth-the-life-he-left-behind.html
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2023, 11:48:23 PM »
im sure not saying the church is perfect. especially lately with this liberal pope. yes things have changed but its still the most consistant teaching church i know of. like i said on any given sunday you can attend church anywhere in the world and are taught the same thing. isnt that way with protestant churches. not even if your talking a baptist church in arizona compared to one in maine. or for that matter any 2 methodist parishes.

so it has to bring up the question of which is right in his interpretation of the bible. its why new protestant churches pop up every day. either one is right and the rest are wrong or its just someone thats trying to make some money or stroke his ego being the man. I mean how many different Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist or methodist churches do you need and thats not even considering the MANY churches that do affiliate themselves with. heck theres a town of less than a 1000 people 20 miles from here that has 3 lutheran churches. even in a small town like that where everyone knows everyone nobody can agree on what teachings they believe or what rules matter and which dont.

i know many wont agree but i think the Lutheran faith might just have replaced the catholic church as the biggest and most powerful if they would have all agreed and there was one protestant faith that stayed with martin luthers church. i guess he thought he knew more about the bible than the catholic church and in his rebellion was bound to attract the discontented, the ones that wanted to be told that getting to heaven is as easy as saying you believe in Jesus. but mostly he took along others that craved the power of being in charge. which made it inevitable that his church would end up a hundred or more churches that dont agree on much of anything and every new one seems to allow more sin that the others dont. you end up with liberal commune churches like guzzi's that claim to be Mennonites but are so far left aoc would affiliate her self with. 
i dont have a clue how protestant churches do it. if a pastor opens a church in a small town does he buy it or does the baptist church own it. my brother in law is ultra liberal. so much so that he either didnt agree with the methodist church he went to (and to leave the methodist church proves how liberal he is) so he and another guy bought an old church in town and are now pastors of it. still protestant but started ANOTHER protestant faith. he was a decon at the methodist church and no doubt it was an ego fight between him and the pastor. now can he claim to be a pastor of a church he started without any formal training beyond being a decon?

like i said our church  or i should say our pope is going down the wrong path of late. but just getting a REAL catholic pope in there would straighten out what is most wrong today. there is no path to consolidating the protestant faith today. It makes Christianity as a whole weaker every day. It's inevitable that in the end that will be the cause of the of Christianity dying

    I have known of one case where the pastor was owner/operator, and have heard of others.  In any case, that is not usually conducive to a  properly run church.  In most cases with independant churches, the ecclesia (members) owns and support the local church.
 Some churches insist on X number of years in formal education, almost all expect some formal education, but still leaders are chosen with much hinging uponn their  accumulated wisdom, maturity in their handling of the word. 
   Of course, in order to choose leaders, the members should be relatively well versed in Bible knowledge, so they are well armed and informed to make a wide choice.  Keep in mind, of the apostles, only Paul and Luke enjoyed any advanced education


confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere. church has studied the bible for almost 2000 years and arent looking for hidden meanings anymore. go to a catholic church in texas Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him.

  I certainly do not want to come off as rude..and yes the Roman church has been " in the business" for 20 centuries...  Of course there have been numerous revisions by sizeable portions of their adherents, to include such as Huss, Luther, Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and others.

  Of course, by bringing in their revisions, necessitated their leaving the former group.

  ..But just as today..the United Methodists are splitting, the Southern Baptists are splitting, along with others, over doctrinal differences.  So, with each of these groups partings,  the Southern Baptists vs the rest, the United Methodists vs the rest, and the Roman Catholics vs Luther, Knox, Wycliffe, or Pieter De Bruis,
 
   After theb split, which one more closely adheres to the original concept and doctrines of "the church" ?  That is the question each saved person must answer for themself.


 our last priest came out against homosexuality and his belief that a homo should get holy communion. he did it because there are a couple of them in our church and they kept coming up and he kept not giving it to them. he said during mass that they shouldnt come upo. he said there welcome to attend but no communion. 6 people walked out that day 2 were homos and the other 4 were teachers. they rallied a group that went to the next parish meeting and they tried jumping on him.

   Just as with the non RC communities, there seems to be notable disagreements in basic doctrine.  It is not as if the RC Church is one monolithic organization...in agreement concerning every issue.  Pope is basically boss, and when we look at just trhe few past years, w find Benedict to have been as much a "by the book" as any Pope of the last 50 years..yet this Francis is almost the  mirror opposite.

  For the last few decades, has there not been a sizeable number of active Catholics, pressing for female priests...and even abortion?   

  Keep in mind, the pope recently fired a bishop, because the bishop was strongly against abortion and gay marriage..


  https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/pope-fancis-joseph-strickland-removed-conservative-texas-bishop-catholic-church/#:~:text=Pope%20Francis%20fired%20a%20Texas,over%20s

  I am not picking on the RC Church here...many non-RC churches are deep into apostacy ... but when a pope fires a bishop over exactly what your post refers to..isn't that more or less, "the pot calling the stove black"?

   Now, to your other statements...  " Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him."

   I wouldn't stay with a church where any "clique' runs it..  And for sure no heirarchy controls the local, independant church..because rthere is
   none...but then the pastor is  not a dictator either.

   " confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere"

   Actually, the 'rules' for the church are universal for all Christian churches..in the give-or-take 1775 pages of the Bible.  Some chutrches do a better       
    job than others, with keeping the rules (doctrine).

  To have an effective church body, the members should be well educated in basic Bible, so they can make wise choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15)
     ...and

      "11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."  (Acts 17:11)
.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2023, 02:58:37 AM »
Dee, you have complained about almost all of the evangelical ministers who are wealthy.  They spend their time preaching the gospel and getting converts to Christianity.  Offerings are taken up for them everywhere they preach.  You don't have to give, you are not forced to give.  Most give because they were either saved because of the preaching or because they want to see others saved by their preaching.  So what if they were blessed by those who received the word.  Sounds like to me this is envy or jealousy on your part.  Most people who are poor are envious of anyone who is wealthy.  They will stay poor because of this.  I also know most of these ministers give 10% to various churches or other evangelical ministers for their service.  Of course a few are charlatans. If you read the word, you can figure out quite easily who they are.  God says He will bless those who spread the Gospel.  The word also says to take up money to help those spreading the Gospel. 

In the US, it was in the past, people respected those who worked hard and became wealthy.  The work ethic was revered by all.  Today the socialists, communists, and lazy people all are envious of the Rich and want to tax them heavy to "spread the wealth around" to those who are lazy and don't contribute much work, time or effort.  Same is true with those, in my opinion, who are envious of preachers in very large congregations, evangelists, and ministers of God.

The Catholic church is the richest church in the world with all their paintings, statues, gold things in their churches, but don't have enough cash to provide missionaries in third world countries.  Most of their cash comes from American Catholics.  They could sell off much of their wealth and have millions or billions of dollars. 

Instead of Christians cutting each other down, criticizing the rich ones, etc.  How about turning the non-believers into Christians.  20% of America now say they are atheists.  Maybe it is time to bring home the missionaries and put them in the inner cities.  Get people saved to stop crime and clean them up.  Turn America back to a general believing in God, then there would be less Evil in our country, like less abortions, less LBGTQ crap, and less killings, less stealing, more respect for the police and each other, less need for womens lib, less divorce, less child abuse.  Maybe back like it was in the 1950's where 50% of Americans attended church, virtually all STD's had been eliminated, crime was low.  People respected each other. 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2023, 03:23:05 AM »
im sure not saying the church is perfect. especially lately with this liberal pope. yes things have changed but its still the most consistant teaching church i know of. like i said on any given sunday you can attend church anywhere in the world and are taught the same thing. isnt that way with protestant churches. not even if your talking a baptist church in arizona compared to one in maine. or for that matter any 2 methodist parishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 l Originally, there was buit one church, which Jesus referred to as His church.  denominations are man made things, there is no
    indication that He ever wanted or sponsored such divisions.  If you disagree, show me from scripture.
 l
  Outside of Jerusalem, the first Christian Church was established at Antioch, Syria. (Acts 11:20-210, in fact Jesus' followers were first called
 l     Christian..at Antioch (Acts 11:26).  Fact is, the first Christian missionaries were dispatched from Antioch... all this, while Rome was but a town
   where the chief tyrants  (emperors) lived, and the seat of power politics at the time...shortly to move to Constantinople...
 l
   There are of course, many different "denominations", and Baptist, methodist, JCLDS, Roman Catholic, Mennonite, and Presbyterian are but a few
 l   of many.   Clearly, we in the US and some few countries about the world will have new groups popping up, which are utilizing popular titles.

   Since some bodies are old enough to have no copyright on their title, certain denominational names such as Baptist, can be used by almost any
 l   group...
    ....And who is going to contest it ?

 l   The defining factor for any church body, is how close they adhere to the written word, since we have no more reliable guage of faithfulness.

 l  How are denominations formed?  ..Well, they are  usually forned by breakaway groups...who differ from their original group because of some
   small difference in doctrine or custom; e.g. when Menno Simons led a breakaway group, to form the Mennonite Church.
 l
   Just as the Lutherans broke away from the Roman Church, others could easily do the same, but for some reason the bulk of Roman Catholics tend
 l not to "make waves", even though they heartily disagree with the boss.  Consider today, where the pope is often operating against the beliefs of
 the ecclesia, yet there seems to be no desire for these thousands, to depart from the now misled group.  ..But that ois their business..
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
   

  so it has to bring up the question of which is right in his interpretation of the bible. its why new protestant churches pop up every day. either one is right and the rest are wrong or its just someone thats trying to make some money or stroke his ego being the man. I mean how many different Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist or methodist churches do you need and thats not even considering the MANY churches that do affiliate themselves with. heck theres a town of less than a 1000 people 20 miles from here that has 3 lutheran churches. even in a small town like that where everyone knows everyone nobody can agree on what teachings they believe or what rules matter and which dont.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 l  You have come close to the crux of the situation, when you said..  " so it has to bring up the question of which is right in his
    interpretation of the bible."
  l    Right on...forget the title over the door or on the sign out front...the key is hpow close the body stays with the Bible.... no
   extraneous rules, made by men..just guided by the word..no matter whet the denominational (man made) name is..
  l  Remember, Jesus said "follow me", He didn't say follow this group or that group!  In fact, He warned us that some "teachers' are false, and would
 l   lead people astray..so our best measure of an honest teacher, is how close they stick to scripture.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i know many wont agree but i think the Lutheran faith might just have replaced the catholic church as the biggest and most powerful if they would have all agreed and there was one protestant faith that stayed with martin luthers church. i guess he thought he knew more about the bible than the catholic church and in his rebellion was bound to attract the discontented, the ones that wanted to be told that getting to heaven is as easy as saying you believe in Jesus. but mostly he took along others that craved the power of being in charge. which made it inevitable that his church would end up a hundred or more churches that dont agree on much of anything and every new one seems to allow more sin that the others dont. you end up with liberal commune churches like guzzi's that claim to be Mennonites but are so far left aoc would affiliate her self with. 
i dont have a clue how protestant churches do it. if a pastor opens a church in a small town does he buy it or does the baptist church own it. my brother in law is ultra liberal. so much so that he either didnt agree with the methodist church he went to (and to leave the methodist church proves how liberal he is) so he and another guy bought an old church in town and are now pastors of it. still protestant but started ANOTHER protestant faith. he was a decon at the methodist church and no doubt it was an ego fight between him and the pastor. now can he claim to be a pastor of a church he started without any formal training beyond being a decon?

  I already explained how your question of start up churches proceed..  Most separations are a result of disagreements between
  members, just as it apparently was why your BIL left his church.  A chief rabbi named Gamaliel, when confronted by the Jews over Jesus' preaching, told them..to leave the apostles alone..if it is of the Lord, it will prosper, if not..it will fade away.. (acts 5).


like i said our church  or i should say our pope is going down the wrong path of late. but just getting a REAL catholic pope in there would straighten out what is most wrong today. there is no path to consolidating the protestant faith today. It makes Christianity as a whole weaker every day. It's inevitable that in the end that will be the cause of the of Christianity dying
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 l   Here again, confronted by a church which is being led by a phony, many would turn away, and either find another church or start their own..some
    like you, prefer to stay, regardless...  "choices'..the way of a free people..
 l
    I have known of one case where the pastor was owner/operator, and have heard of others.  In any case, that is not usually conducive to a 
   properly run church.  In most cases with independant churches, the ecclesia (members) owns and support the local church.
 l  Some churches insist on X number of years in formal education, almost all expect some formal education, but still leaders are chosen with much
   hinging uponn their  accumulated wisdom, maturity in their handling of the word. 
   Of course, in order to choose leaders, the members should be relatively well versed in Bible knowledge, so they are well armed and informed to
  l   make a wide choice.  Keep in mind, of the apostles, only Paul and Luke enjoyed any advanced education.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere. church has studied the bible for almost 2000 years and arent looking for hidden meanings anymore. go to a catholic church in texas Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 l  I certainly do not want to come off as rude..and yes the Roman church has been " in the business" for 20 centuries...  Of course there have been
    numerous revisions by sizeable portions of their adherents, to include such as Huss, Luther, Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and others.

 l  Of course, by bringing in their revisions, necessitated their leaving the former group.

  l    ..But just as today..the United Methodists are splitting, the Southern Baptists are splitting, along with others, over doctrinal differences.  So,
      with each of these groups partings,  the Southern Baptists vs the rest, the United Methodists vs the rest, and the Roman Catholics vs Luther,
     Knox, Wycliffe, or Pieter De Bruis,
 l
   After the split, which one more closely adheres to the original concept and doctrines of "the church" ?  That is the question each saved person
    must answer for themself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 our last priest came out against homosexuality and his belief that a homo should get holy communion. he did it because there are a couple of them in our church and they kept coming up and he kept not giving it to them. he said during mass that they shouldnt come upo. he said there welcome to attend but no communion. 6 people walked out that day 2 were homos and the other 4 were teachers. they rallied a group that went to the next parish meeting and they tried jumping on him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 l  Just as with the non RC communities, there seems to be notable disagreements in basic doctrine.  It is not as if the RC Church is one monolithic
     organization...in agreement concerning every issue.  Pope is basically boss, and when we look at just trhe few past years, w find Benedict to have
    been as much a "by the book" as any Pope of the last 50 years..yet this Francis is almost the  mirror opposite.
 l
      For the last few decades, has there not been a sizeable number of active Catholics, pressing for female priests...and even abortion?   
 
       Keep in mind, the pope recently fired a bishop, because the bishop was strongly against abortion and gay marriage..[/color]

  https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/pope-fancis-joseph-strickland-removed-conservative-texas-bishop-catholic-church/#:~:text=Pope%20Francis%20fired%20a%20Texas,over%20s

  I am not picking on the RC Church here...many non-RC churches are deep into apostasy ... but when a pope fires a bishop over exactly what your post refers to..isn't that more or less, "the pot calling the stove black"?

   Now, to your other statements...  " Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him."

   I wouldn't stay with a church where any "clique' runs it..  And for sure no heirarchy controls the local, independant church..because rthere is
   none...but then the pastor is  not a dictator either.

   " confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere"

   Actually, the 'rules' for the church are universal for all Christian churches..in the give-or-take 1775 pages of the Bible.  Some chutrches do a better       
    job than others, with keeping the rules (doctrine).

  To have an effective church body, the members should be well educated in basic Bible, so they can make wise choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15)
     ...and

     "11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."  (Acts 17:11)
.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2023, 03:37:35 AM »
sorry but its to hard to read that little colored print for these old eyes. please respond in a normal reply. thank you
blue lives matter

Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2023, 05:40:32 AM »
Dee, you have complained about almost all of the evangelical ministers who are wealthy.  They spend their time preaching the gospel and getting converts to Christianity.  Offerings are taken up for them everywhere they preach.  You don't have to give, you are not forced to give.  Most give because they were either saved because of the preaching or because they want to see others saved by their preaching.  So what if they were blessed by those who received the word.  Sounds like to me this is envy or jealousy on your part.  Most people who are poor are envious of anyone who is wealthy.  They will stay poor because of this.  I also know most of these ministers give 10% to various churches or other evangelical ministers for their service.  Of course a few are charlatans. If you read the word, you can figure out quite easily who they are.  God says He will bless those who spread the Gospel.  The word also says to take up money to help those spreading the Gospel. 

In the US, it was in the past, people respected those who worked hard and became wealthy.  The work ethic was revered by all.  Today the socialists, communists, and lazy people all are envious of the Rich and want to tax them heavy to "spread the wealth around" to those who are lazy and don't contribute much work, time or effort.  Same is true with those, in my opinion, who are envious of preachers in very large congregations, evangelists, and ministers of God.

The Catholic church is the richest church in the world with all their paintings, statues, gold things in their churches, but don't have enough cash to provide missionaries in third world countries.  Most of their cash comes from American Catholics.  They could sell off much of their wealth and have millions or billions of dollars. 

Instead of Christians cutting each other down, criticizing the rich ones, etc.  How about turning the non-believers into Christians.  20% of America now say they are atheists.  Maybe it is time to bring home the missionaries and put them in the inner cities.  Get people saved to stop crime and clean them up.  Turn America back to a general believing in God, then there would be less Evil in our country, like less abortions, less LBGTQ crap, and less killings, less stealing, more respect for the police and each other, less need for womens lib, less divorce, less child abuse.  Maybe back like it was in the 1950's where 50% of Americans attended church, virtually all STD's had been eliminated, crime was low.  People respected each other.

I posted Billy Grahams income, and net worth. I said not one word positive, nor negative concerning his ministry, his character,  or even his wealth. But here you are attacking me personally, accusing me of being envious, and jealous, of a dead man.
You attack me, because you obviously are uncomfortable with the truth. How sad.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2023, 10:34:03 AM »
You mentioned it in another thread.

"The highest paid preacher is Franklin Graham at $880,000.00 per year, and a net worth of $10,000,000.00"

This thread was about a cashless society.  This is not the first time.  Even in this thread you mentioned it out of the blue.  The topics get strayed.  I do not know why you keep doing this.  Nothing negative was ever found with him or Franklin Graham.  No child molesting, etc.  A lot of various evangelists make a lot of money.  Some are very good preachers and teachers.  Saved people appreciate that and support the evangelism.  Franklin Graham was not allowed to preach in England recently because they said he was homophobic, preaching the gospel and calling sin, sin, and calling them to repentance.  Who cares what they make?  Only those who are envious.  You don't have to donate.  You don't have to listen to them.  This is supposed to be a free country.  I was just making a point that you have posted several times about the Graham's salaries as well as other well known evangelists.  Some have sinned and it was made known, like Jimmy Swaggart and he was put out of the Assembly of God church. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2023, 12:06:50 PM »
His mother saw Billy Graham 2-3 times and he talked to her about salvation.  Billy Graham was checked on by one of the news outlets back in the 70's and they found out he only took the salary from his association that matched what the average American family brought home.  So he was a great man.  Preached only salvation and told the converts to find an evangelical church to attend.  I was saved at a Billy Graham crusade on May 19, 1972.  I filled out a form after accepting Christ as my savior.  His association mailed me a course to read and fill out the answers and mail back in, and they sent me another one to fill out and mail back in.  The first course was on the Gospel of John as to who Jesus was and how I was Born Again.  Anyway, learned a lot and then went to my local Baptist Church.  I read the Bible through in just a couple of months.  Then read it in about 2-3 other versions, and they all said the same thing.  Soaked up everything. 

Anyway, I don't get it.  All these pro-Palistinian marches and they were nothing but murderers and rapists.  No Western nation acts like that or treats civilians like that.  Even during WWII the Germans respected us far more than the Russians.  Hamas is just plain Evil.

You mentioned it in another thread.

"The highest paid preacher is Franklin Graham at $880,000.00 per year, and a net worth of $10,000,000.00"
So what? Its the truth. Have you got a problem with the truth?

This thread was about a cashless society. This is not the first time.  Even in this thread you mentioned it out of the blue.  The topics get strayed.  I do not know why you keep doing this.  Nothing negative was ever found with him or Franklin Graham.  No child molesting, etc.  A lot of various evangelists make a lot of money.  Some are very good preachers and teachers.  Saved people appreciate that and support the evangelism.  Franklin Graham was not allowed to preach in England recently because they said he was homophobic, preaching the gospel and calling sin, sin, and calling them to repentance.  Who cares what they make?  Only those who are envious.  You don't have to donate.  You don't have to listen to them.  This is supposed to be a free country.  I was just making a point that you have posted several times about the Graham's salaries as well as other well known evangelists.  Some have sinned and it was made known, like Jimmy Swaggart and he was put out of the Assembly of God church. 

This thread is about a cashless society? Really? Where did you get that idea?

I thought this thread was about King Charles, and whether he was an Anglican or Muslim.   ::) Which i commented on.

Then YOU brought Billy Graham into the topic, which  i also  commented on, and I mentioned that his son was Franklin. Your defending against an attack on Graham that didn't happen.

I think you need to go back to the 1st post,  and RE-ORIENT yourself as to what the original topic is actually about.  ;)

BTW, you are aware that this forum,  like all others,  is about individuals opinions, and they "possibly" might differ from yours?

Meanwhile think: Mark Chapter 10 veses 17-31  :)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2023, 11:08:15 PM »
simple questions. does your church have a board of directors or something similar? can it hire or fire a priest? are you on that board? why did you pick that church? do they know or teach something the rest of us are wrong about? how much FORMAL training does a pastor in your church HAS TO HAVE. Do you as a deacon have FORMAL training and how much is REQUIRED? in both cases im not asking what either one there presently has im asking what MUST they have



im sure not saying the church is perfect. especially lately with this liberal pope. yes things have changed but its still the most consistant teaching church i know of. like i said on any given sunday you can attend church anywhere in the world and are taught the same thing. isnt that way with protestant churches. not even if your talking a baptist church in arizona compared to one in maine. or for that matter any 2 methodist parishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 l Originally, there was buit one church, which Jesus referred to as His church.  denominations are man made things, there is no
    indication that He ever wanted or sponsored such divisions.  If you disagree, show me from scripture.
 l
  Outside of Jerusalem, the first Christian Church was established at Antioch, Syria. (Acts 11:20-210, in fact Jesus' followers were first called
 l     Christian..at Antioch (Acts 11:26).  Fact is, the first Christian missionaries were dispatched from Antioch... all this, while Rome was but a town
   where the chief tyrants  (emperors) lived, and the seat of power politics at the time...shortly to move to Constantinople...
 l
   There are of course, many different "denominations", and Baptist, methodist, JCLDS, Roman Catholic, Mennonite, and Presbyterian are but a few
 l   of many.   Clearly, we in the US and some few countries about the world will have new groups popping up, which are utilizing popular titles.

   Since some bodies are old enough to have no copyright on their title, certain denominational names such as Baptist, can be used by almost any
 l   group...
    ....And who is going to contest it ?

 l   The defining factor for any church body, is how close they adhere to the written word, since we have no more reliable guage of faithfulness.

 l  How are denominations formed?  ..Well, they are  usually forned by breakaway groups...who differ from their original group because of some
   small difference in doctrine or custom; e.g. when Menno Simons led a breakaway group, to form the Mennonite Church.
 l
   Just as the Lutherans broke away from the Roman Church, others could easily do the same, but for some reason the bulk of Roman Catholics tend
 l not to "make waves", even though they heartily disagree with the boss.  Consider today, where the pope is often operating against the beliefs of
 the ecclesia, yet there seems to be no desire for these thousands, to depart from the now misled group.  ..But that ois their business..
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
   

  so it has to bring up the question of which is right in his interpretation of the bible. its why new protestant churches pop up every day. either one is right and the rest are wrong or its just someone thats trying to make some money or stroke his ego being the man. I mean how many different Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist or methodist churches do you need and thats not even considering the MANY churches that do affiliate themselves with. heck theres a town of less than a 1000 people 20 miles from here that has 3 lutheran churches. even in a small town like that where everyone knows everyone nobody can agree on what teachings they believe or what rules matter and which dont.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 l  You have come close to the crux of the situation, when you said..  " so it has to bring up the question of which is right in his
    interpretation of the bible."
  l    Right on...forget the title over the door or on the sign out front...the key is hpow close the body stays with the Bible.... no
   extraneous rules, made by men..just guided by the word..no matter whet the denominational (man made) name is..
  l  Remember, Jesus said "follow me", He didn't say follow this group or that group!  In fact, He warned us that some "teachers' are false, and would
 l   lead people astray..so our best measure of an honest teacher, is how close they stick to scripture.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i know many wont agree but i think the Lutheran faith might just have replaced the catholic church as the biggest and most powerful if they would have all agreed and there was one protestant faith that stayed with martin luthers church. i guess he thought he knew more about the bible than the catholic church and in his rebellion was bound to attract the discontented, the ones that wanted to be told that getting to heaven is as easy as saying you believe in Jesus. but mostly he took along others that craved the power of being in charge. which made it inevitable that his church would end up a hundred or more churches that dont agree on much of anything and every new one seems to allow more sin that the others dont. you end up with liberal commune churches like guzzi's that claim to be Mennonites but are so far left aoc would affiliate her self with. 
i dont have a clue how protestant churches do it. if a pastor opens a church in a small town does he buy it or does the baptist church own it. my brother in law is ultra liberal. so much so that he either didnt agree with the methodist church he went to (and to leave the methodist church proves how liberal he is) so he and another guy bought an old church in town and are now pastors of it. still protestant but started ANOTHER protestant faith. he was a decon at the methodist church and no doubt it was an ego fight between him and the pastor. now can he claim to be a pastor of a church he started without any formal training beyond being a decon?

  I already explained how your question of start up churches proceed..  Most separations are a result of disagreements between
  members, just as it apparently was why your BIL left his church.  A chief rabbi named Gamaliel, when confronted by the Jews over Jesus' preaching, told them..to leave the apostles alone..if it is of the Lord, it will prosper, if not..it will fade away.. (acts 5).


like i said our church  or i should say our pope is going down the wrong path of late. but just getting a REAL catholic pope in there would straighten out what is most wrong today. there is no path to consolidating the protestant faith today. It makes Christianity as a whole weaker every day. It's inevitable that in the end that will be the cause of the of Christianity dying
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 l   Here again, confronted by a church which is being led by a phony, many would turn away, and either find another church or start their own..some
    like you, prefer to stay, regardless...  "choices'..the way of a free people..
 l
    I have known of one case where the pastor was owner/operator, and have heard of others.  In any case, that is not usually conducive to a 
   properly run church.  In most cases with independant churches, the ecclesia (members) owns and support the local church.
 l  Some churches insist on X number of years in formal education, almost all expect some formal education, but still leaders are chosen with much
   hinging uponn their  accumulated wisdom, maturity in their handling of the word. 
   Of course, in order to choose leaders, the members should be relatively well versed in Bible knowledge, so they are well armed and informed to
  l   make a wide choice.  Keep in mind, of the apostles, only Paul and Luke enjoyed any advanced education.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere. church has studied the bible for almost 2000 years and arent looking for hidden meanings anymore. go to a catholic church in texas Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 l  I certainly do not want to come off as rude..and yes the Roman church has been " in the business" for 20 centuries...  Of course there have been
    numerous revisions by sizeable portions of their adherents, to include such as Huss, Luther, Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and others.

 l  Of course, by bringing in their revisions, necessitated their leaving the former group.

  l    ..But just as today..the United Methodists are splitting, the Southern Baptists are splitting, along with others, over doctrinal differences.  So,
      with each of these groups partings,  the Southern Baptists vs the rest, the United Methodists vs the rest, and the Roman Catholics vs Luther,
     Knox, Wycliffe, or Pieter De Bruis,
 l
   After the split, which one more closely adheres to the original concept and doctrines of "the church" ?  That is the question each saved person
    must answer for themself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 our last priest came out against homosexuality and his belief that a homo should get holy communion. he did it because there are a couple of them in our church and they kept coming up and he kept not giving it to them. he said during mass that they shouldnt come upo. he said there welcome to attend but no communion. 6 people walked out that day 2 were homos and the other 4 were teachers. they rallied a group that went to the next parish meeting and they tried jumping on him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 l  Just as with the non RC communities, there seems to be notable disagreements in basic doctrine.  It is not as if the RC Church is one monolithic
     organization...in agreement concerning every issue.  Pope is basically boss, and when we look at just trhe few past years, w find Benedict to have
    been as much a "by the book" as any Pope of the last 50 years..yet this Francis is almost the  mirror opposite.
 l
      For the last few decades, has there not been a sizeable number of active Catholics, pressing for female priests...and even abortion?   
 
       Keep in mind, the pope recently fired a bishop, because the bishop was strongly against abortion and gay marriage..[/color]

  https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/pope-fancis-joseph-strickland-removed-conservative-texas-bishop-catholic-church/#:~:text=Pope%20Francis%20fired%20a%20Texas,over%20s

  I am not picking on the RC Church here...many non-RC churches are deep into apostasy ... but when a pope fires a bishop over exactly what your post refers to..isn't that more or less, "the pot calling the stove black"?

   Now, to your other statements...  " Colorado florida spain africa anywhere and things are consistent. theres not an association of old ladies deciding which pastor to hire or fire. sure isnt perfect. especially with this tool we have for a pope but its one thing in my life thats constant. our priest controls his paris according, the parish doesnt control him."

   I wouldn't stay with a church where any "clique' runs it..  And for sure no heirarchy controls the local, independant church..because rthere is
   none...but then the pastor is  not a dictator either.

   " confuses me because the rules for catholics are the same everywhere"

   Actually, the 'rules' for the church are universal for all Christian churches..in the give-or-take 1775 pages of the Bible.  Some chutrches do a better       
    job than others, with keeping the rules (doctrine).

  To have an effective church body, the members should be well educated in basic Bible, so they can make wise choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15)
     ...and

     "11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."  (Acts 17:11)
.
[/quote]
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2023, 11:41:07 PM »
Quote
l Originally, there was buit one church, which Jesus referred to as His church.  denominations are man made things, there is no
    indication that He ever wanted or sponsored such divisions.  If you disagree, show me from scripture.

i agree totally. so why do protestants to the day, probably to this month keep dividing. ironglow i believe you are in an independent church that considers itself protestant. so are the lutherans and baptists doing something wrong. is your church somehow more intelligent and understands scripture better than they do? why are there many different lutheran baptist and methodist. why does a tiny little town that doesnt even have a gas station need more than one lutheran church? why do all of you still consider yourselves lutherans. your farther away from what luther wanted than he was from the catholic church! he must be rolling in his grave seeing small churches that think they no more than everyone else, churches started so someone's ego is stroked because their the man (or women).

 churches that call themselves lutheran that support abortion or at least turn a blind eye to it. churches that have lesbian preachers. supper churches and big-name television evangelists that have multimillion dollar mansions and limos and even private plains and run late night infomercials trying to get 50 bucks from an old lady that thinks she has to buy her way into heaven as do all the others handing their money to those shysters. rolling in his grave is putting it very mildly. Satan is at work in some of these people. what the hell happened to JESUS'S church to LUTHER'S church. Yup even our church with this new anti bible pope. but even as much as hes disliked we dont split into tiny churches that weaken Christianity as a whole.

 why did you do it? is feeling your right or the fact that you get to sit up front mean more to you than uniting Christians to fight in this war were in. I mean its pretty obvious all the protestant faiths are going to follow your little church so next sunday maybe you should retire your deacon title and show up at the biggest lutheran church in town because one things a given. there's power in numbers. so you need to decide before its to late. do you go to church to be a deacon or will you do you go for what's best for Christianity and God. leave the super egos to those evangilists and super church preachers because satan bought them all with shiny gold
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Offline ironglow

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2023, 02:51:07 AM »
Quote
l Originally, there was buit one church, which Jesus referred to as His church.  denominations are man made things, there is no
    indication that He ever wanted or sponsored such divisions.  If you disagree, show me from scripture.

i agree totally. so why do protestants to the day, probably to this month keep dividing. ironglow i believe you are in an independent church that considers itself protestant. so are the lutherans and baptists doing something wrong. is your church somehow more intelligent and understands scripture better than they do? why are there many different lutheran baptist and methodist. why does a tiny little town that doesnt even have a gas station need more than one lutheran church? why do all of you still consider yourselves lutherans. your farther away from what luther wanted than he was from the catholic church! he must be rolling in his grave seeing small churches that think they no more than everyone else, churches started so someone's ego is stroked because their the man (or women).

 churches that call themselves lutheran that support abortion or at least turn a blind eye to it. churches that have lesbian preachers. supper churches and big-name television evangelists that have multimillion dollar mansions and limos and even private plains and run late night infomercials trying to get 50 bucks from an old lady that thinks she has to buy her way into heaven as do all the others handing their money to those shysters. rolling in his grave is putting it very mildly. Satan is at work in some of these people. what the hell happened to JESUS'S church to LUTHER'S church. Yup even our church with this new anti bible pope. but even as much as hes disliked we dont split into tiny churches that weaken Christianity as a whole.

 why did you do it? is feeling your right or the fact that you get to sit up front mean more to you than uniting Christians to fight in this war were in. I mean its pretty obvious all the protestant faiths are going to follow your little church so next sunday maybe you should retire your deacon title and show up at the biggest lutheran church in town because one things a given. there's power in numbers. so you need to decide before its to late. do you go to church to be a deacon or will you do you go for what's best for Christianity and God. leave the super egos to those evangilists and super church preachers because satan bought them all with shiny gold

     I don't see the various sects as "dividing"...other than by attaching a name to their individual groups.  Accepting the concept that Jesus Himself did not mention any denomination by name.. any name other that "Jesus' Church", is an addition to what Jesus offered.

  There are other local churches I could in good conscience, attend and do so gladly.  Keep in mind, Jesus only spoke of HIS church.. It wasn't
   Lutheran, Baptist, RC or Methodist, so what do we use as a measure ?

   We have one yardstick, the Bible, which has been passed down to us as a means of maintaining correect doctrine and practices.  Our task as
  individual Christians, is to find a local church which adheres most closely to this measure, intheir doctrine and practices. 

   Keeping in mind that 'denominations' are man made... the name over the door, doesn't mean squat !

  You have said above, that the current pope is anti-Bible..if somehow a Pastor were selected to be chief among elders in our local church, either he
    would change trhat stance..or either he or I would have to go.

  By people not being alert and remaining true to scripture...is exactly how error creeps in.

  I will elaborate more if needed, but I must rush off to an appointment  now..

 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2023, 03:11:26 AM »
In another thread about a Cashless Society, Dee brought up Billy Grahams salary.  He brought it up in this thread about King Charles.  Well, he brought it up, at least twice, but I have seen it in other places he posted.  I can dig deeper to show this as I did find one recently on the Cashless Society. 

I've been to churches where pastors got paid more than I did, and to some where they got paid less.  Had nothing to do with what or how he preached or what kind of person he was.  Didn't mater his salary.  This is why I think Dee is obsessed with what evangelists salaries are.  He seems to not like what big Evangelists make.  I liked what Billy Graham preached and how he preached, and thousands of others liked what he preached.  Thousands got saved, but if they didn't get into an evangelical church, many fell away by not becoming grounded in the word of God.  Billy Graham preached that if you come down to get saved, you have to continue reading the word and get grounded in it and in an evangelical church.  Both he and his son are hated now by the left, because they preached against sin, and some of the sins are the LBGTQ crap that is spreading now.  He preached that sin must be repented of, and by being saved it can turn your life around. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2023, 03:26:54 AM »
In another thread about a Cashless Society, Dee brought up Billy Grahams salary.  He brought it up in this thread about King Charles.  Well, he brought it up, at least twice, but I have seen it in other places he posted.  I can dig deeper to show this as I did find one recently on the Cashless Society. 



Once again. YOU brought Billy Graham into this thread. I posted PUBLIC RECORD concerning his financial status. SO WHAT!

You are obviously uncomfortable with Billy Grahams having made himself a millionaire many times over through his evangelism, when still,  nothing negative concerning his ministry has been said. THIS "TRUTH" HAS MADE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE, TO THE POINT THAT YOU ARE BLAMEING ME. I didn't make him a millionaire.  He did that on his own. ;)

Now this cashless society thread where I allegedly brought up Billy Graham. I don't remember that, so unless you can point myself,  and others to that,  I'm gonna have to say,  you're probably lying. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline gene_225

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2023, 03:37:51 AM »
We are planning to show the Billy Graham film "Cry from the Mountain" this Sunday morning during our Sunday School hour. I've only seen a couple of his movies, but that seems the best of those. I always enjoy it, and I even found it available on U-tube even though I own a DVD copy.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2023, 04:09:33 AM »
I've hesitated to get involved with this thread tho I have been reading it. I'm gonna jump in and address one issue and one only cuz it bugs the dickens out of me.

Lloyd, you keep using the term protestants, only the catholic church and thus you use such a term. Churches other than the catholic do not refer to themselves as protestant. I guess that it could/would be correct to call the Lutheran church by that name in that Martin Luther did indeed protest the catholic church.

But it is incorrect to call other denominations protestant as they are and have protested nothing.

For some reason catholics act and apparently believe they are "the original" church. I beg to differ as they didn't even begin until Constantine created it around 325 AD I believe was the date.

So can you/will you stop calling everyone who isn't a catholic a protestant? I do generally sit quietly aside and ignore such but I do take Umbridge at the use of that term to define me or anyone else other than I suppose the Lutherans.


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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2023, 07:03:05 AM »
bill all i can say is do an internet search as to which churches are considered protestant. i typed a rather long reply to you but out of respect took it down and sent it as a pm. dee i agree with every thing you said. there can be no such thing as a christian preacher thats a millionair. to me the two grahams and the pope we have now are total hypocrites that preach the bi ble but dont follow the words they teach.
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Online Bob Riebe

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Re: ... Some are claiming..
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2023, 07:27:29 AM »
Too bad the Queen's mother passed; this  King would have red ears from his grandmother batting his head back and forth.