Perhaps time to reassess..

[ironglow]

  A sore subject.. The shroud of Turin..  It has been ignored because many pastors believe, and rightly so, that some would end up, worshipping a cloth!

  However, recent scientific studies tend to bolster the claims of authenticty, and the shroud is moving more toward acceptance .  One surprising scholar to lean that way is Dr Gary Habermas, who when asked, stated that he is "about 80% sure" of it's authenticity.  Sounds about right to me.

   So, who is Dr Gary Habermas?  Dr Habermas is considered by most scholars to be the #1 authority on the resurrection. His magnum opus, on the 
  resurrection goes to 5,000 pages.  Here is volume "1..     https://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-1-Evidences/dp/1087778603

  Here is a video critique, explaining some of his contentions..    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSWCb8eDT-k

  If you choose to answer in the obverse, bring facts and/or scriptures, please refrain from ad hominem attacks, which prove nothing...other that a
   lack of information on the subject.

 

 

 

[Dee]

So cpr is once again applied to a very dead horse. There is not one shred of evidence (including DNA) to indicate that this so-called shroud/cloth/rag, has ever even been in contact with any corpse, including Christ Himself.
Its original origin is impossible to trace back, and it falls only to those who desperately want it to be something impossible to document, or prove .
It seems these tail chasers cannot be satisfied with God's Word, and desperately need more proof to satisfy their obvious doubts in their own beliefs

[ironglow]

  Spome evidence perhaps ?  Dr Haberman has studied it closely and evidence points heavily to authenticity.  Not that the shroud holds any special
  powers or should be venerated.. but the latest unbiased tests point that way.

   Tio date nobody in any science can explain how the imprint was affixed to the cloth.  The imag eis in the negative, and must be transferred to the positive to be seen,

  One examination done decades ago (i988), showed by radio-carbon dating, the cloth to be from the medieval times.  However, it was discovered that
  the sample was taken from a patch sewed in by Nuns in in 1534, after a fire damaged it in 1532.

   Later tests show the cloth to be 1st century..and some plant seeds embedded in the cloth to be the same...  BTW.. Dr Habermas is not an RC scholar, but the man in charge of New Testament studies at Liberty University.

  Here is another PhD in the subject who agrees with Dr Habermas..and explains here, exactly why. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyyFnEekiE4

  Actually, radio carbon dating is old hat now. that there are better ways to test this sample..

    https://www.returntoorder.org/2022/05/carbon-14-dating-method-is-outdated-new-evidence-defends-authenticity-of-the-shroud-of-turin/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnfmsBhDfARIsAM7MKi1BF

[Dee]

I'm not bashing this shroud thing, its just so blatantly a hopeless, baseless endeavor. If you believe scripture, no one knows what Christ looks like, so this shroud nonsense is as far fetched as the catholics seeing the Virgin Mary on a piece of burnt toast.
One can say they believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, but this type of nonsense indicates otherwise.
It really doesn't matter how old the hunk of cloth is,  or isn't,  there is nothing, zero,  zilch, that ties it to anything related to Christ, or the Bible for that matter.

The catholics have promoted this myth, but actual research has proven over and over that, not only does anyone not know where it came from originally, but that it was even an actual shroud, or that the so-called image is any more coincidental than that burnt peice of toast.
With that said,  I'll withdraw,

[ironglow]

You are assuredly correct, in that true or false, it makes little doffearence for today's believer...or for any believer in the past.

  I don't subscribe to any other so called 'relic' that I am aware of now, but the recent studies seem to indicate that we are not being swindled
   by tris particular one.  The studies in themselves however, are fascinating.

  So far as other relics..there must be at least 3 tons of pieces of the original cross floating around Europe...and 105 nails from His crucifixion,
    along with ten thumbs of anouther saint..

  One group, heavy into computers and AI, claim to have created a photo from the imprint on the shroud.  It appeards to be probably in the
   appearance of a man of 1st century Judean.

   ...And thanks for your thoughtful answer...

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess if you can doubt the EXACT word in the bible concerning that BURNT TOAST that Jesus gave his disciples and told them EXACTLY what it was and to do often as the last lesson he taught them before he was crucified. Then i can doubt an entire faith based on thinking a quick dip in the river out back and a halleluiah gets you a ticket to heaven. isnt naming a church after a man making an idol of that man?? maybe bring in some snakes and have everyone dance in the isle and scream amen after everything the preacher says. everyone likes a circus

I'm not bashing this shroud thing, its just so blatantly a hopeless, baseless endeavor. If you believe scripture, no one knows what Christ looks like, so this shroud nonsense is as far fetched as the catholics seeing the Virgin Mary on a piece of burnt toast.
One can say they believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, but this type of nonsense indicates otherwise.
It really doesn't matter how old the hunk of cloth is,  or isn't,  there is nothing, zero,  zilch, that ties it to anything related to Christ, or the Bible for that matter.

The catholics have promoted this myth, but actual research has proven over and over that, not only does anyone not know where it came from originally, but that it was even an actual shroud, or that the so-called image is any more coincidental than that burnt peice of toast.
With that said,  I'll withdraw,

[Lloyd Smale]

The catholics have promoted this myth, but actual research has proven over and over that, not only does anyone not know where it came from originally, but that it was even an actual shroud, or that the so-called image is any more coincidental than that burnt peice of toast.
With that said,  I'll withdraw,

  there lies your problem with it. THE CATHOLICS HAVE IT AND SAY ITS REAL and no YOU WILL NOT WITHDRAWL. YOU CANT!!!!   the catholic church has you right by the nuts and you just cant shake it. IF you were smart youd leave the church out of your posts because you get buried every time but thats a big IF kind of like guzzi fighting the conservatives. your all alone with all your hate

[Dee]

The catholics have promoted this myth, but actual research has proven over and over that, not only does anyone not know where it came from originally, but that it was even an actual shroud, or that the so-called image is any more coincidental than that burnt peice of toast.
With that said,  I'll withdraw,

  there lies your problem with it. THE CATHOLICS HAVE IT AND SAY ITS REAL and no YOU WILL NOT WITHDRAWL. YOU CANT!!!!   the catholic church has you right by the nuts and you just cant shake it. IF you were smart youd leave the church out of your posts because you get buried every time but thats a big IF kind of like guzzi fighting the conservatives. your all alone with all your hate

Everything little sister disagrees with is always HATE HATE HATE.

BILL TOLD US BOTH TO NOT ARGUE,  BUT I GUESS HE REALLY JUST MEANT ME, CAUSE LLOYDEEN HAS  DIARRHEA OF THE MOUTH AND GOES ON & ON. SO TAKE IT AWAY LLOYDEEN CAUSE ITS ALL ABOUT YOU. AND BESIDES, I DON'T ARGUE WITH WOMEN. .

[ironglow]

The catholics have promoted this myth, but actual research has proven over and over that, not only does anyone not know where it came from originally, but that it was even an actual shroud, or that the so-called image is any more coincidental than that burnt peice of toast.
With that said,  I'll withdraw,

  there lies your problem with it. THE CATHOLICS HAVE IT AND SAY ITS REAL and no YOU WILL NOT WITHDRAWL. YOU CANT!!!!   the catholic church has you right by the nuts and you just cant shake it. IF you were smart youd leave the church out of your posts because you get buried every time but thats a big IF kind of like guzzi fighting the conservatives. your all alone with all your hate

  Lloyd, how about using facts/scripture...ad hominem attacks only stir up discord.

   If we are all three believers keep this from Proverbs 6, in mind.

  16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

  Let's see if we can keep it to a tolerable and polite level...leaving the ad hominem for other places..  How about it ?