Author Topic: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.  (Read 257 times)

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Offline ironglow

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  The ugly uniparty recently approved and Biden signed, a bill that would from what I understand, make grandpa a criminal if he gives his old squirrel
   rifle to his grandchild..

 It appears that A sale between ANY two people without background check, would be illegal...and a "gift" is not excluded, since the demonrats consider a "gift" to be just a sneaky way around the law.  (likely they are just "projecting" again)

  The would be commie dictators of New York have had this in effect for somne time..but now it is spreading.

  https://www.nraila.org/articles/20240412/with-a-stroke-of-the-pen-biden-atf-criminalizes-tens-of-thousands-of-private-firearm-sellers

  BTW:  Don't we already know the demonrats will act retroactively on events from years ago, if they really want to "get" somebody ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline JustaShooter

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2024, 02:16:03 AM »
  The ugly uniparty recently approved and Biden signed, a bill that would from what I understand, make grandpa a criminal if he gives his old squirrel
   rifle to his grandchild..

 It appears that A sale between ANY two people without background check, would be illegal...and a "gift" is not excluded, since the demonrats consider a "gift" to be just a sneaky way around the law.  (likely they are just "projecting" again)

The way the rule reads (regardless of where it actually deviates from the law - and will likely be overturned if a case makes it to SCOTUS), it does not make grandpa/dad a criminal if he gives his old squirrel gun to his grandchild/son since they are not doing so to "predominantly earn a profit" which is a requirement to be covered by the new rule.  Neither would any legitimate gift of a firearm.

As far as a sale between any two people, it gets a lot more murky - and concerning.  As I said above, the primary requirement is that the seller intends to do so to “predominantly earn a profit.” And they've come up with a few scenarios that would give rise to the presumption that the seller is doing so.  From a link in  the article:

Quote
These include common law-abiding gun owner conduct, such as,

    “advertises or posts firearms for sale, including on any website”

    “Purchases, rents, or otherwise secures or sets aside permanent or temporary physical space to display or store firearms they offer for sale, including part or all of a business premises, table or space at a gun show, or display case;”

So, selling your old carry gun to your neighbor is unlikely to be an issue - unless you've advertised it here on GBO, or set up a table at a gun show to sell off some of your old guns...

Don't get me wrong, it's a clear overstepping of the law, but the change to the law does place more limits on who can legitimately sell without an FFL.
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2024, 02:56:49 AM »
If you give or sell a gun to anyone, and that gun is used in a self defense situation the gun will be easily traced back to you, and you go to jail. If this is a rule and not a law, I don't see how it can be enforced.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline JustaShooter

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2024, 06:00:11 AM »
If you give or sell a gun to anyone, and that gun is used in a self defense situation the gun will be easily traced back to you, and you go to jail. If this is a rule and not a law, I don't see how it can be enforced.
I don't know where you got your information, but from what I can determine neither the law, nor the rule being implemented, would do anything like that. Can you provide a link to an article or other analysis that says that would be the case?
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2024, 07:26:26 AM »
If you give or sell a gun to anyone, and that gun is used in a self defense situation the gun will be easily traced back to you, and you go to jail. If this is a rule and not a law, I don't see how it can be enforced.
I don't know where you got your information, but from what I can determine neither the law, nor the rule being implemented, would do anything like that. Can you provide a link to an article or other analysis that says that would be the case?

What do you think the intent is of this rule?  They didn't create it for gun sales to go on as usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIqXtHf5sWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4seLLPfN610
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline JustaShooter

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2024, 08:48:17 AM »
If you give or sell a gun to anyone, and that gun is used in a self defense situation the gun will be easily traced back to you, and you go to jail. If this is a rule and not a law, I don't see how it can be enforced.
I don't know where you got your information, but from what I can determine neither the law, nor the rule being implemented, would do anything like that. Can you provide a link to an article or other analysis that says that would be the case?

What do you think the intent is of this rule?  They didn't create it for gun sales to go on as usual.

I didn't say anything of the sort.   

The scenario they paint is pretty remote - and, even if the ATF/FBI run a trace and eventually work their way to you as a private seller, they have to prove the sale came after the change to the law, and prove your profit motive, etc., to be able to make it go anywhere.  The chances of them putting that much effort into it for Joe Blow is in my opinion somewhere between slim and none.  Now if you are on their radar already *maybe*.  And of course all of this presumes the rule actually takes effect and isn't shot down by the lawsuits that are descending on it as we speak.

Lest anyone think I believe otherwise, yes, the change to the law, and the new rule implementing it, are very concerning and will be maliciously used against us.  But the scenario your post suggests isn't one that is at the top of the ATF/FBI's list of things to do in my opinion. The first thing they'll do is go after any folks already on their radar, then gather info for sales after the date of the rule on Gunbroker, here, and other websites they can trawl for info, and set up gun show stings.  Those are the low-hanging fruit that will produce maximum results for minimum effort. 

So yes, protect yourself and be cautious how you go about any sales.  In the mean time, support your favorite 2A advocacy group with a track record of fighting these overreaches in court and help them kill this thing before it is used in *any* way against us.
Christian, Husband, Father
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Anything I post in these forums is my personal opinion formed by my own interpretation of the topic.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Gun sale "criminals" defined in bill recently signed by Biden.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2024, 12:00:37 PM »
  Time will tell..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)