Author Topic: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?  (Read 855 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« on: May 28, 2024, 04:35:49 AM »
  Even thouigh Biden P_ _ _ _ _ d away $9 billion of OUR money to force Ford to build electric powered vehicles, they still have nearly ruined Ford
    Motor Co.

  When they started to cost well over $100K to produce..and to make up for it, Foed had to raise prices on other vehicles, they saw "the handwriting on
   the wall"..  So Ford  told Biden to "stuff it" !

  When will the other makers grow a pair and tell Biden to do the same?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m68ZQEx2KAQ
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2024, 12:41:39 AM »
  Ford lost $36,000 on each F-150 Lightning they sold... not counting what the taxpayers lost in subsudizing EVs.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v3esFDVImU
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2024, 08:20:40 AM »
I like the idea of electric cars.

HOWEVER, the cost of batteries HAVE to come down, the time to charge one HAS to come down, and the cost of the vehicles HAVE to come down, and the range HAS to go up. 

The only pro's I see is no emissions, and they do have quicker acceleration. 

Tesla has a 10 year head start and none of their factories are union, thus lower labor costs.  They also are probably produced with more use of robots.  Musk said he wants to eventually have them all produced with robots.  He is working on making robots now.  With Union labor at Ford and GM, with cradle to grave benefits, it is hard for them to compete with Tesla right now. 
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Offline GTS225

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2024, 10:23:56 AM »
The only pro's I see is no emissions, and they do have quicker acceleration. 

Ummmmm.  You might want to look into that "zero emissions" claim.
Dust and pollutants from the mine(s) that get the minerals for the batteries.  (Kills EVERYTHING for miles around.)
More emissions from electrical power plants in order to charge up those "zero emissions" cars.  (Just moving the pollution from many tailpipes to a collective one at the powerplant.)
Let's see.....paint to color the car.  Fabricating the upholstery......making the copper to wind the electric motor, along with the other components of the car.

I too, like the idea of electric cars, BUT.....they are NOT the planet-saving measure that some claim them to be.  So.....I'll stick with my tried-and-true internal combustion engine, thank you.

Roger

Offline wtxbadger

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2024, 04:51:37 PM »
Ford is in survival mode now, EV's are not the future going forward and they have/are paying the price now.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2024, 04:33:52 AM »
Manufacturing actually applies to both types of cars.  Steel is made from coal, limestone, and iron ore.  Making these requires burning a lot of coal for heat.  So, I kind of discount manufacturing.  Also, in an ICE car, you still have a lot of wiring.  Alternator, starter, and all electrical components. 

They are moving away from Lithium Cobalt to Lithium Sodium batteries.  Tesla gets their lithium from Nevada.  It does require strip mining.  So does copper and some other minerals.  Lithium can also be extracted from sea water.  Cobalt is mined in Africa with child labor, thus getting away from cobalt and switching to sodium which is in salt and sea water. 

An EV assembly line is completely different from an engine assembly line.  This is what is holding back the big three. 

I think if they want to get rid of "fossil fuels" they need to fix the power grid first.  Solar and wind can only go so far without massive battery or some type of storage for night and when the wind doesn't blow.  Nuke plants are really the only way to replace coal and natural gas.  They can work 24/7 for 30 years or more without refueling.  Smaller nuke plants cannot "melt down" like a larger one.  Also using thorium instead of uranium will vastly decrease the decay life to safe levels after use.  No need for very long term storage.  Once the grid can produce about twice the power as today's grid, then concentrate of solid state batteries that can charge in 5 minutes and go almost 1,000 miles (Toyoda's claim on a test car they made recently). 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2024, 10:46:23 AM »
I like the idea of electric cars.

HOWEVER, the cost of batteries HAVE to come down, the time to charge one HAS to come down, and the cost of the vehicles HAVE to come down, and the range HAS to go up. 

The only pro's I see is no emissions, and they do have quicker acceleration. 

Tesla has a 10 year head start and none of their factories are union, thus lower labor costs.  They also are probably produced with more use of robots.  Musk said he wants to eventually have them all produced with robots.  He is working on making robots now.  With Union labor at Ford and GM, with cradle to grave benefits, it is hard for them to compete with Tesla right now.

   The answer may well be on the way.  I'm not saying that batteries answer all the needs the left is trying to shoehorn today's batteries into,
    but technology being developed right now, may well dump the old technology of the lefties.

  I can see the use of EVs for urban personal use vehicles.


    The new nano-technology, can do what today's batteries do, with only 1/10th the size and weight required at present...or conversely, using the
      same  weight battery we do in a chain saw or electric drill..will give us 10 times the hours usage
   
    I have mentioned Dr James Tour and his group previously..here is the present stage of development...Perhaps with a president not owned by
      China, we can make their CCP near monopoly on lithium..a ball and chain for them.

     https://news2.rice.edu/2018/10/25/nanotubes-may-give-the-world-better-batteries/

 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2024, 01:25:24 AM »
Quote
I think if they want to get rid of "fossil fuels" they need to fix the power grid first
thats the real truth of the matter here and it will cost tax payers billions be it in taxes or electric rates. it needs a major overhaul as is but put 2 evs in every driveway and the cost of an electrical grid that will support it will break middle class americans. we need more generation doubling of our power transmission lines and substations and upgrading every single distribution line conductor size, every transformer would need to be bigger, every service line to every home and even your own service pannel. sorry but the power fairy isnt going to wave a wand and give it to you free. you basically have to tear down and rebuild every pole, wire transformer substation you see and then build some nukes or coal plants that can actually produce that much power. THAT is the reality. I made my living as a power plant operator and as an electrical lineman. Bottom line is even if they doubled your taxes to pay for it it would take decades to do. crap today they cant find enough young people that are willing to do work like that to maintain what we have. are they also planning a forced lineman draft to do the work ::) i can guarantee you one thing. 10 or even 20 years from now either at least 75% of americans will be driving fossil fuel cars or driving will only be for the rich and youll be peddling a bike.   
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2024, 02:44:46 AM »
  From Lloyd...

   "  Bottom line is even if they doubled your taxes to pay for it it would take decades to do. except today they cant find enough young people that are willing to do work like that to maintain what we have. are they also planning a forced lineman draft to do the work".

    Nah...They won't draft linemen to work on the grid...they will let some of the illegals do the job..at least those who are willing to work,
   rather than pursue a criminal career.

   Safety? ..."we don't need no stinking safety"..  After all, the DEI watchdogs are happy to see the illegals take those jobs..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2024, 03:39:17 AM »
burnt tacos
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2024, 04:05:07 PM »
The electrical power industry is
just like the natural gas distribution
industry and the automotive
industry and every other business
in the nation today.
Top heavy with upper level management
that doesn't know the first thing
about the business they manage,
or their customer base.
By golly they have that management
degree though.
They boot out the experienced
knowledgeable employees, and
bring in green trainees, or border
jumpers. The most common example
I can use is the border jumpers that
cut buried utilities and tear up
expensive construction equipment.
I can't tell you at the backhoes and
excavators I've seen torn up by
pea brained border jumpers using
the bucket to bust up concrete
pavement or trying to put too much
load on a hydraulic system and
blow the lines or the pump or
bend/dent up the cylinders.
I've had excuse makers/enablers
tell me about the great work
ethic, blah blah blah and blah blah.
But if they tear up something
because of the lack of knowledge
and critical decision making
ability, or ruin a bunch of expensive
materials, it's a loss just as if
the "work" had never been done.
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2024, 10:22:09 PM »
keep in mind its really the government through the public service commission and the epa that controls the electrical industry. that should tell you why its at the point of complete failure today
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2024, 12:23:09 AM »
keep in mind its really the government through the public service commission and the epa that controls the electrical industry. that should tell you why its at the point of complete failure today

  Top heavy...just like any government entity !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Ranger99

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2024, 10:15:14 AM »
. . . . .Top heavy...just like any government entity !

Like every corporation and business in
the nation in 2024
I've seen it
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Offline wtxbadger

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2024, 02:45:05 PM »
Worked for a large independent oil and gas company that was lean on management and very successful in the earlier years of its existence. It wasn't uncommon to get a phone call from a VP wanting to understand a given issue straight from the person that was handling it. The CEO/President started backing away from the day to day operations around 2005 and as time passed more and more duties were delegated and upper management followed that example and then the hiring spree started of middle management people who had a degree but no experience or idea of how an oil company worked. As time progressed we began to see more and more inane/insane policies handed down that crippled our productivity, decisions being made by twenty something year old kids and a pervasive work environment where the older employees with knowledge and experience were run off or encouraged to retire. Finally had enough and called it quits in 2014. Definitely not a dream retirement but peace of mind goes a long ways.
wtxbadger

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2024, 10:43:50 PM »
my last 3 years as a lineman were in charge of an underground major instillation crew for our company. we had a big job coming up and they hauled me in the office and told me that they were going to turn all underground work over to contractors starting with that job. i asked them what the bid price was because i had already d
finished my estimate. theirs was a 122k higher. i told the ceo tis was insane as i could do it that much cheaper. he told me do it and prove him wrong and hed reconsider. i did the job and came in 18k under budget. a week later they sent me a paper didnt even have the balls to do it to my face) saying the underground crew was being dissolved and i was reassigned back as a transmission crew leader. rumor had it the board all got big bonuses no doubt from the underground instillation company and a week later our ceo retired and moved to florida. 8 of my 36 man crew were laid off and the rest reassigned. i put in my notice 2 weeks later and a month to the day i got that letter walked out. in big business there is crocked crap but the honchos answer to the board and stock holders. in the utility industry they only answer to a crooked government thats only real consern is today is the far left agenda. mark my words. if bidens reelected you electic rates 4 years from now will be double what they are today to fund the ev push and being able to claim they did it without a tax raise to pay for it.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2024, 11:46:09 AM »
Yeah
That's the thing these days for
these management types.
Get your foot in the door, lay
low for a while then start filling
your pockets and building your
portfolio, then bail when the
company is on it's last legs.
I've been seeing it in the field
I've worked in, and most all of
the vendors I've worked with for
years and the related industries.
Those types should have been
setting some aside because most
of the automotive new dealers
have been bought up by Berkshire
Hathaway including the last few
I've worked at.  The only people
that'll be working for those places
are green trainees. Sad for the
consumers and sad for all the
old time experienced knowledgeable
employees that spent a constructive
lifetime working at and building
those businesses
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2024, 01:59:34 AM »
  Another problem that is just starting to impinge upon smart business practices, is the whole DEI thing, where corporations, instead of hiring the most
      COMPETENT directors, instead opt for ones fitting th eDEI profile...and filled with "woke" ideas..

   Just look at the "Bud Light" incident..  Then there is Disney, where some DEI female ran the old name into the ground, by promoting queerness.

  Once they hit bottom, Disney apparently hired back their old CEO, Bob Iger..hopefully to save trheir hide.  ..But it appears that by time the helm
   was retaken by Iger, there were so many put in place in the corp...that they couldn't change.. 

   The corp made many of their former "heroes" into perverts..and went totally "woke'..

    So now it appears, Disney is more queer than ever, and hemorraghing more capital than ever.

  https://www.quora.com/Disney-lost-1-4-billion-dollars-in-2023-in-theatres-and-almost-everything-failed-Is-this-the-epitome-of-Go-Woke-Go-Broke
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2024, 11:40:09 PM »
just saw where they found lithium in the waste of natural gas fracking and some on the left are asking for increased NG production. the far left is still quiet on it though
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Online ulav8r

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2024, 03:27:28 PM »
It is also found in the brine from dormant oil wells in southern Arkansas.  They are currently trying to develop a cost effective way to extract it.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2024, 01:19:09 AM »
  We don't need any "steenking" Chinese lithium..     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-KwABFjAq0
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Online gypsyman

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2024, 04:20:06 PM »
 We are decades away from ev's being used by the majority of people. Short range vehicle's, postal trucks/vans for local service, in town service's, when their just being used 50-100 miles, going back in the garage and recharged every night, best we can do for now. Our power grid and supply can't keep up with the demand if they think they can get even 20% of the vehicles on the road to be electric in the next 10-20 years.
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2024, 11:36:39 PM »
hopefully this insanity will end quickly after the election. right now our major concern should be putin putting us into an ice age not flipping global warming that is just a natural cycle of mother nature
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2024, 12:11:34 AM »
. . . .Right now our major concern should be putin putting us into an ice age not flipping global warming that is just a natural cycle of mother nature

Yeah that's true.
Unfortunately, there's more and more
people who just don't GAS and are
apathetic and indifferent to everything
except having the newest and "greatest"
toys, and the latest thing on social media
and the "news" about the "sports" teams
and the price of things to impair their
judgement.  Not many care about honor
or patriotism or being neighborly.
Too busy enabling and making excuses
for uncivilized misfits and their poor
behavior.
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Ford ditching EVs..when will GM catch on ?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2024, 01:39:13 AM »
. . . .Right now our major concern should be putin putting us into an ice age not flipping global warming that is just a natural cycle of mother nature

Yeah that's true.
Unfortunately, there's more and more
people who just don't GAS and are
apathetic and indifferent to everything
except having the newest and "greatest"
toys, and the latest thing on social media
and the "news" about the "sports" teams
and the price of things to impair their
judgement.  Not many care about honor
or patriotism or being neighborly.
Too busy enabling and making excuses
for uncivilized misfits and their poor
behavior.

   Yup!  ..Bread and circuses, all over again..  It is nothing short of amazing, how ignorant and uninformed so many are today.  We are in tough shape, when at least half of the "voters" are basically are only concerned with "how much bennies they can get from the gubmint".

  Then there are those who are so wrapped up in the  social media, sports teams, and either profligate or perverse lifestyles.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)