Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, goodie! Controversy.
I LOVE IT!
Grab the shorty 870 with BIRDSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes I CAN back that up!
Listen up.
All defensive scenarios are SITUATIONAL.
If we are talking about saving yer arse in yer house with your family nearby you want something decisive.
In your HOME, where defensive distances are 25 FEET and closer then the 12 bore with birdshot is an awesome stopper.
If you have innocent people in the next room you sure don't want overpenetration knocking off your granny, your child, your mother-in-law....o.k. THAT was a stretch, but you get the point.
I would be very careful to my choice of shot size. # 8 is puny, 4's, 5's ain't none too bad.
Who's the idjit that said #8 shot won't penetrate a leather coat at 10 feet?
BullS%^T!!!!
I like #4 buck for inside the building distances also. Again it depends on the situation and what you are doing.
I carried an 870 14" with 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck for drug raids where I was #1 inside the door.
Let's face facts fellas. When your busting a door on a crack house I'll take #1 point man any day.
The 2nd guy in usually gets shot. :grin:
I saw a nasty dude take a hit at a measured 42 yards from a 12 bore modified choke Remington #4 shot 1.25 oz, 2 3/4" shell and he WAS wearing a leather coat.
The nasty was in real bad shape. He was hit in the left side from his ears to his arse and the #4's penetrated the leather coat quite nicely thank you very much. Pellets were in his left lung, guts, neck (artery don'cha'know) and face. The # 4's broke his cheek bones.
I've seen lots and lots of gunshot wounds, from .25 acp to shotgun slugs and in between.
I've seen people die instantly from one hit from the mouse round .25acp and watched people walk away with a 1.25 oz. load of 5's CONTACT wound to the guts. And that one was a 90 pound 15 year old boy!
Yeh, a contact wound to the guts from a 12 bore and he WALKED a half mile for help.
And if anyone wants to argue (in the scientific sense) with me..allow me to introduce myself.
lieutenant of Police, in charge of Deadly Force training, felony squad, drug team raid leader, S.W.A.T. Commander, 22 years service, 10 years as an investigator, 3 of those 10 as Chief of Detectives, injured 13 times and disabled with my 2nd broken back!
I've met, befriended and put on THREE training seminars with Massad Ayoob and did sniper training with Carlos Hathcock a few years before his untimely death.
I've seen more gunshot victims than most military combat vets.
I'm a certified instructor in subgun, assault rifle, shotgun, revolver, semi-auto pistol, 40MM grenade launcher, and sniper rifle.
Then there are my intructors certificates in courtroom survival and defensive tactics with lethal and less than lethal weapons.
Anyone want to put up an arguement?
Please do.