Pro/anti abortion discussion

[DDZ]

Charlie Kirk is very good at dismissing the pro abortionists arguments.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpXQt9Wg_Js

[ironglow]

Charlie Kirk is very good at dismissing the pro abortionists arguments.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpXQt9Wg_Js

  Some of them are somewhat bright, but most are so stupid, that they are easy to counter..and Charlie is one of the best..

  "Save the whales, save the seals, save the spotted owl and the slippery smelt... but kill the human babies !

  Lefty logic at it's paramount !

[GTS225]

I'm probably gonna piss off a few but...............I lean a tad bit left on this subject, but to the point that I promote that it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS but the female's whether she's pregnant, let alone what she's going to do about it.
It's not my business, it's not your business, and it damn sure isn't the government's business.  If anything, I might also include the biological father and/or parents of the girl, depending on circumstances.  She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

[ironglow]

I'm probably gonna piss off a few but...............I lean a tad bit left on this subject, but to the point that I promote that it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS but the female's whether she's pregnant, let alone what she's going to do about it.
It's not my business, it's not your business, and it damn sure isn't the government's business.  If anything, I might also include the biological father and/or parents of the girl, depending on circumstances.  She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

    So Roger, should we drop all penalties for murder or voluntary homicide ?  No real excuse for this killing..there are too many options available..

   prevention, immediate douche, pills to prevent, adoption...and heavens forbid..abstain until married..

  Seems as if someone has neglected these options one after another, they should 'bite the bullet' and let the child live..even if with some other Mom and Dad.

[Mule 11]

I'm probably gonna piss off a few but...............I lean a tad bit left on this subject, but to the point that I promote that it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS but the female's whether she's pregnant, let alone what she's going to do about it.
It's not my business, it's not your business, and it damn sure isn't the government's business.  If anything, I might also include the biological father and/or parents of the girl, depending on circumstances.  She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

Not the first time I’ve noticed your left leanings butt, then again you are an atheist errr what do you call it again?

[Casull]

I'm probably gonna piss off a few but...............I lean a tad bit left on this subject, but to the point that I promote that it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS but the female's whether she's pregnant, let alone what she's going to do about it.
It's not my business, it's not your business, and it damn sure isn't the government's business.  If anything, I might also include the biological father and/or parents of the girl, depending on circumstances.  She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

You are right.  You are going to piss off some people.

[Bob Riebe]

 Abortion is not a one size fits all item.
Far right people are/were against the same day pill that prevented pregnancy; - 1st trimester it is not a human being; - 2nd trimester is where problems start with what state the fetus is; 3rd trimester , unless there is a truly life threatened,  abortions should NEVER be allowed.

[ironglow]

 From Bob;
   " 1st trimester it is not a human being; - 2nd trimester is where problems start with what state the fetus is; 3rd trimester , unless there is a truly life
    threatened,  abortions should NEVER be allowed."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  It seems hard to sustain such a scenario;

  1) "1st trimester it is not a human being".... 
   
  Even at the start, the baby has his/her own DNA..his/her own blood type and his/her own excluisive
    fingerprints have started to form.

 
   2) "2nd trimester is where problems start with what state the fetus is".  ... No problem then, unless the parent decides to kill him/her.  The b aby's eyes styart to move at this point, and here is what    AI says is also involved.. 

 
What fetal development occurs in the 2nd trimester?
 AI Overview
During the second trimester (weeks 13-27), the fetus undergoes significant growth and development, including the formation of vital organs, bones, and features, with the fetus starting to look more like a child, and you may start feeling the baby move.

  3) "unless there is a truly life threatened,  abortions should NEVER be allowed."   

    Such a case is almost never encountered, since C-sections are  now considered safer than the regular birth process. If the baby has died, then as
  Charlie says, it is not an abortion, but the extraction of  dead baby, the same whether it is the baby's life or the mother's life, that is threatened.

[Bob Riebe]

  It is not a human being until God put a soun in it.
  IF it has a soul from the get-go, God would be killing people with ever spontaneous abortion.

[GTS225]

She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

    So Roger, should we drop all penalties for murder or voluntary homicide ?  No real excuse for this killing..there are too many options available..

   prevention, immediate douche, pills to prevent, adoption...and heavens forbid..abstain until married..

  Seems as if someone has neglected these options one after another, they should 'bite the bullet' and let the child live..even if with some other Mom and Dad.
[/quote]

Hmmm.....seems you missed my last sentence.  I'll repeat it.....she has no liability or responsibility to answer to me/us..... only to her God.  The rest I'll leave as is.

Roger

[GTS225]

Not the first time I’ve noticed your left leanings butt, then again you are an atheist errr what do you call it again?

Really?.....you're going to go there?

A true atheist believes in nothing.....not a religion, nor a God, or the concept of a government.  They will also, just like Muslims, try quite hard to call your beliefs into doubt and persuade you to toss those beliefs out.

I call myself a passive agnostic.  I don't believe in an omnipotent, all powerful entity the way the rest of society does.  HOWEVER.......I also understand that every society needs something to believe in, and ours chose to believe in a God 2000 years ago.  I shall not attempt to dissuade them, knowing that to do so would cause a total collapse of that same society.

If I'm wrong, then I only have to answer to your God for my lack of faith, and then you mortals can hold me up as an example of what NOT to become.

I'll leave it at that.....Roger

[Mule 11]

  It is not a human being

That is how murder is justified all over the world, not just babies.

[DDZ]

I'm probably gonna piss off a few but...............I lean a tad bit left on this subject, but to the point that I promote that it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS but the female's whether she's pregnant, let alone what she's going to do about it.
It's not my business, it's not your business, and it damn sure isn't the government's business.  If anything, I might also include the biological father and/or parents of the girl, depending on circumstances.  She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

So, your perception is that it should be a right of the mother/father to kill their unborn child?  Lets take any ones God out of the equation.  At conception a member of the human species begins. We have protections for all humans under our laws. So should we make exceptions for which humans we can kill legally? If so what are the exceptions? Not developed yet? When a child is born they continue to develop into adulthood. If a child is born under that assumption then why is it not okay for parents to kill their baby after birth?  Under your argument that its no ones business what parents do with their baby, why is killing not allowed after its born? If parents did kill the baby after birth. Would they not end up being convicted for murder?  The baby is still a human in the womb or out of it.  So with your argument do you believe it should be no ones business whether parents kill their child in the womb or out of the womb? Either option is taking the life of a human.     

[Mule 11]

Not the first time I’ve noticed your left leanings butt, then again you are an atheist errr what do you call it again?

Really?.....you're going to go there?         Response ( truth, of course I will )

A true atheist believes in nothing.....not a religion, nor a God, or the concept of a government.  They will also, just like Muslims, try quite hard to call your beliefs into doubt and persuade you to toss those beliefs out.

I call myself a passive agnostic.  I don't believe in an omnipotent, all powerful entity the way the rest of society does.  HOWEVER.......I also understand that every society needs something to believe in, and ours chose to believe in a God 2000 years ago.  I shall not attempt to dissuade them, knowing that to do so would cause a total collapse of that same society.

If I'm wrong, then I only have to answer to your God for my lack of faith, and then you mortals can hold me up as an example of what NOT to become.

I'll leave it at that.....Roger

You don’t anger me as suggested, just disappointed but not only you. If there were no doctors? willing to murder Babies… we would not be discussing this…

[GTS225]

So, your perception is that it should be a right of the mother/father to kill their unborn child?  Lets take any ones God out of the equation.  At conception a member of the human species begins. We have protections for all humans under our laws. So should we make exceptions for which humans we can kill legally? If so what are the exceptions? Not developed yet? When a child is born they continue to develop into adulthood. If a child is born under that assumption then why is it not okay for parents to kill their baby after birth?  Under your argument that its no ones business what parents do with their baby, why is killing not allowed after its born? If parents did kill the baby after birth. Would they not end up being convicted for murder?  The baby is still a human in the womb or out of it.  So with your argument do you believe it should be no ones business whether parents kill their child in the womb or out of the womb? Either option is taking the life of a human.   

WOW!  You're sure reading an awful lot into my response.
Please point out where I said it was her "right" to have an abortion.  (Notice I didn't say that, at all.)
Please point out where I said anything about an "abortion" after birth.  (Again, I didn't.)

You are putting words into my mouth based on your own beliefs. Please don't do that.  I simply typed out how I feel about the subject, and in no way told the rest of you that you are supposed to believe as I do. 

Kindly show me the same courtesy.....Roger

P.S........At least I'm not like certain others that pop in, post something antagonizing, then don't show back up to respond.

[GTS225]

You don’t anger me as suggested, just disappointed but not only you. If there were no doctors? willing to murder Babies… we would not be discussing this…

Hmmmm.  I'm trying to read into what I typed that would be interpreted as a concept of you being angered.  I fail to see it.  (Neither here nor there.)

You have every right to be disappointed, but still, like the pregnant female contemplating an abortion, she, nor I, have to answer to you. (And neither do you have to answer to me/us.)

And you're quite correct.....if there were no doctors willing to carry out the act, then the discussion wouldn't exist.   And if there weren't "progress" in computer software, we wouldn't be worried about AI, nor counterfeit prescription drugs, or poorly built cars, ad nauseum........

Look, folks.....I'm simply typing out the truth as I see it.  You are not required to like it. 

BUT......if you feel you have the right or responsibility to require others to live by your standards of behavior, then you must also realize others might wish the same of you.....to live by THEIR standards of behavior.  Do try to remember the words of your own religious guidebook......"Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you". (or something to that effect)

'Nuff said.....Roger

[Mule 11]

You don’t anger me as suggested, just disappointed but not only you. If there were no doctors? willing to murder Babies… we would not be discussing this…

Hmmmm.  I'm trying to read into what I typed that would be interpreted as a concept of you being angered.  I fail to see it.  (Neither here nor there.)            Reply: maybe first line of first post aye?

You have every right to be disappointed, but still, like the pregnant female contemplating an abortion, she, nor I, have to answer to you. (And neither do you have to answer to me/us.)

And you're quite correct.....if there were no doctors willing to carry out the act, then the discussion wouldn't exist.   And if there weren't "progress" in computer software, we wouldn't be worried about AI, nor counterfeit prescription drugs, or poorly built cars, ad nauseum........

Reply: inadequate comparison, ad nauseum……..

Look, folks.....I'm simply typing out the truth as I see it.  You are not required to like it. 

BUT......if you feel you have the right or responsibility to require others to live by your standards of behavior, then you must also realize others might wish the same of you.....to live by THEIR standards of behavior.  Do try to remember the words of your own religious guidebook......"Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you". (or something to that effect)

'Nuff said.....Roger

Reply: I require nothing of you, butt, I may choose to reply, you don’t have to like it…

[Bob Riebe]

  It would be best if those who cannot afford a child would keep their legs crossed than their men their pants zipped shut.

  Whoring around is no longer looked down upon by society so that is a dead topic, but perhaps if the term bastard child would be used as it once was that would give grief where deserved. 

Affects te chldren?    They are, what they are, if they feel the stigma, maybe they will be more careful as adults.

[DDZ]

So, your perception is that it should be a right of the mother/father to kill their unborn child?  Lets take any ones God out of the equation.  At conception a member of the human species begins. We have protections for all humans under our laws. So should we make exceptions for which humans we can kill legally? If so what are the exceptions? Not developed yet? When a child is born they continue to develop into adulthood. If a child is born under that assumption then why is it not okay for parents to kill their baby after birth?  Under your argument that its no ones business what parents do with their baby, why is killing not allowed after its born? If parents did kill the baby after birth. Would they not end up being convicted for murder?  The baby is still a human in the womb or out of it.  So with your argument do you believe it should be no ones business whether parents kill their child in the womb or out of the womb? Either option is taking the life of a human.   

WOW!  You're sure reading an awful lot into my response.
Please point out where I said it was her "right" to have an abortion.  (Notice I didn't say that, at all.)
No you didn't say that, but your own statement saying you lean left on the subject says enough.

Please point out where I said anything about an "abortion" after birth.  (Again, I didn't.)
I wasn't implying you did. I was using abortion after birth as an argument that there isn't a difference with abortion after birth or abortion in the womb. Its killing. Period.

You are putting words into my mouth based on your own beliefs. Please don't do that.  I simply typed out how I feel about the subject, and in no way told the rest of you that you are supposed to believe as I do.
Yeah, no one here is telling you what to believe either. Its just a discussion against a pro abortion idea. If you meant something other than what you first said, maybe it needs clarified better. Your statement saying its no ones business except the female's kind of indicates that you believe she should be able to kill her child if she so chooses.

Kindly show me the same courtesy.....Roger

P.S........At least I'm not like certain others that pop in, post something antagonizing, then don't show back up to respond.

[GTS225]

  It would be best if those who cannot afford a child would keep their legs crossed than their men their pants zipped shut.

  Whoring around is no longer looked down upon by society so that is a dead topic, but perhaps if the term bastard child would be used as it once was that would give grief where deserved. 

Affects te chldren?    They are, what they are, if they feel the stigma, maybe they will be more careful as adults.

On this, we can agree, Mr. Reibe, with a small caveat.  To ridicule the child is wrong.......the issue isn't really the child's fault, is it?

Just sayin'.....Roger

[Bob Riebe]

On this, we can agree, Mr. Reibe, with a small caveat.  To ridicule the child is wrong.......the issue isn't really the child's fault, is it?
Just sayin'.....Roger

I thought of your point, but then you are using the child's feelings to hide what he/she is, at that it is foolish to to speak  that term when the child is present.

[Matt]

I’m a father of three. I’ve seen ultrasounds. I’ve held them the moment they arrived. I’ve watched them take their first breath, cry, smile, grow up. So I’ll be blunt: I can’t imagine choosing to end that before it even begins. That’s my line. I won’t pretend otherwise.

But I’ll also say this—screaming at each other doesn’t save lives. And calling people names doesn’t win hearts. People end up in hard, painful, often terrifying situations. That doesn’t mean abortion is right. But if all we bring to the table is judgment and fire, we’re not helping anyone choose life—we’re just making noise.

The real problem is the culture. We celebrate consequence-free everything, then act shocked when responsibility gets tossed out the window. And yes—society has gotten real comfortable making excuses to treat human life like it’s optional. That should bother people.

At the same time, we’re not going to legislate morality into people’s hearts. If we want to stop abortions, it starts with building a world where people are supported enough not to make that choice—and that means family, community, and personal responsibility.

And yeah, the system is broken. It's not just about laws—it's about the mindset that life is disposable. Fix that, and the laws won't matter as much.

If you're out here just wanting to argue or score points, maybe ask yourself if you’re trying to win an argument—or save a life. Because there’s a big damn difference.

[Mule 11]

My children give my life purpose, I would have little without them…

[scattershot]

Personally, I think abortion is between a woman and her doctor. No abortion at all  after the fetus becomes viable.  Having said that, the most vociferous proponents of abortion seem to want to use  it as birth control, and have the government pay for it. Cut to its core, I think that’s the argument.

[ironglow]

She has no liability to answer to me/us.....only to her God.

Privacy rights first.....Roger

    So Roger, should we drop all penalties for murder or voluntary homicide ?  No real excuse for this killing..there are too many options available..

   prevention, immediate douche, pills to prevent, adoption...and heavens forbid..abstain until married..

  Seems as if someone has neglected these options one after another, they should 'bite the bullet' and let the child live..even if with some other Mom and Dad.

Hmmm.....seems you missed my last sentence.  I'll repeat it.....she has no liability or responsibility to answer to me/us..... only to her God.  The rest I'll leave as is.

Roger
[/quote]

   For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place,
    when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
    all the days ordained for me were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
    How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them, (Psalm 139:13-18)

 

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart    (Jeremiah 1:5)
   

[ironglow]

I’m a father of three. I’ve seen ultrasounds. I’ve held them the moment they arrived. I’ve watched them take their first breath, cry, smile, grow up. So I’ll be blunt: I can’t imagine choosing to end that before it even begins. That’s my line. I won’t pretend otherwise.

But I’ll also say this—screaming at each other doesn’t save lives. And calling people names doesn’t win hearts. People end up in hard, painful, often terrifying situations. That doesn’t mean abortion is right. But if all we bring to the table is judgment and fire, we’re not helping anyone choose life—we’re just making noise.

The real problem is the culture. We celebrate consequence-free everything, then act shocked when responsibility gets tossed out the window. And yes—society has gotten real comfortable making excuses to treat human life like it’s optional. That should bother people.

   

At the same time, we’re not going to legislate morality into people’s hearts. If we want to stop abortions, it starts with building a world where people are supported enough not to make that choice—and that means family, community, and personal responsibility.

And yeah, the system is broken. It's not just about laws—it's about the mindset that life is disposable. Fix that, and the laws won't matter as much.

If you're out here just wanting to argue or score points, maybe ask yourself if you’re trying to win an argument—or save a life. Because there’s a big damn difference.

  I can agree with ^^^that^^^. 

[DDZ]

I’m a father of three. I’ve seen ultrasounds. I’ve held them the moment they arrived. I’ve watched them take their first breath, cry, smile, grow up. So I’ll be blunt: I can’t imagine choosing to end that before it even begins. That’s my line. I won’t pretend otherwise.

But I’ll also say this—screaming at each other doesn’t save lives. And calling people names doesn’t win hearts. People end up in hard, painful, often terrifying situations. That doesn’t mean abortion is right. But if all we bring to the table is judgment and fire, we’re not helping anyone choose life—we’re just making noise.

The real problem is the culture. We celebrate consequence-free everything, then act shocked when responsibility gets tossed out the window. And yes—society has gotten real comfortable making excuses to treat human life like it’s optional. That should bother people.

   

At the same time, we’re not going to legislate morality into people’s hearts. If we want to stop abortions, it starts with building a world where people are supported enough not to make that choice—and that means family, community, and personal responsibility.

And yeah, the system is broken. It's not just about laws—it's about the mindset that life is disposable. Fix that, and the laws won't matter as much.

If you're out here just wanting to argue or score points, maybe ask yourself if you’re trying to win an argument—or save a life. Because there’s a big damn difference.

  I can agree with ^^^that^^^.

Me Too!

[Lloyd Smale]

its simple. its murdering a human being and should be treated no different than stabbing your 5 year old kid. dont want it? there are 1000s waiting in line to adopt. dont want to go through a pregnancy? keep your legs closed!!!