The changing face of war...

[ironglow]

  Mostly from an old tanker's view.

  The conflict in Ukraine has led to many innovations; so much that the face of war as we have known it is changing rapidly, moving in a rapid flux..

  Foremost in visibility perhaps, is how a weapon costing a few thousands of dollars, can eliminate a weapon costing millions.
  Recently a Ukrainian done is credited with bringing down an advanced Russian bomber worth $ 100,000,00, while the same drones are killing tanks which range from 5 to 10 million dollars apiece.

  Drones are changing much of the face of warfare even now, witnessed by action in the Ukraine.   
 

 Obviously, armored warfare is to undergo a revision.  The medium and heavy tanks are likely to phase out, in favor of lighter, more nimble versions.
  While physics at present, won't allow large, conventional guns to operate efficently on a light chassis, new missile type ordnance is developing apace.

  One vulnerable point on a coinventional tank, is the turret ring, the geared ring which the turret turns and permits accurate firing.  Drones are seen specifically targeting that ring. If that ring is just jammed, say nothing about penetrated, it would require aiming the gun tube by turning the entire tank. That is too slow to reply and live...and not likely to be able to draw a fine zero on any opposing source of danger.

   Coming soon, crewless weaponry.  I can visualize such a light tank, with armor protecting the essential vitals..with no need to protect the creeew or worry about crew comfort.

   New, composite and reactive armor makes lighter carriers more feasible, no turret required, since the missiles replacing the gun tube, can redirect their flight in the air. Robots in place of crewmen would solve an long held problem of armor designers..the height factor.

  In any combat situation, a low profile is desired, reducing the target area.  We tankers went through training with some fellow trainees who wer 6'5"
   tall or more..we viewed that as just more Army SNAFU.  A man that tall has difficulty when in a tank turret for any extended period.. and crew
  comfort is more critical than many realize.. Travelling for hours cramped up, may hav esome suffering from fatigue when they arrive at a point of action.

  Today's slogans may change.....armor used to be "the combat arm of decision"..will it remain so ?  I have confidence that the infantry will remain "the queen of battle", simply because, like the queen in chess...it is infantry that holds the ground once captured.

   Drones and AI will greatly alter the battlefield of the future.. even taking it to fields of battle yet unheard of..the reason for our new Space Force.

 

[Dee]

I see it the same. Politicians start the wars, and the common man fights and dies in'em. Man has graduated from rocks and clubs, to bows and spears, to rifles and bombs, and so on, and so on.
But the instigators, and the folks doing the actual fighting and dying are the same.

Since the end of WWII, the United States has not fought for American freedom. The actual war fighters have fought and died for greed, power, and corruption.

With luck, that period is over for at least the next 4 years.

[ironglow]

I see it the same. Politicians start the wars, and the common man fights and dies in'em. Man has graduated from rocks and clubs, to bows and spears, to rifles and bombs, and so on, and so on.
But the instigators, and the folks doing the actual fighting and dying are the same.

Since the end of WWII, the United States has not fought for American freedom. The actual war fighters have fought and died for greed, power, and corruption.

With luck, that period is over for at least the next 4 years.

 Yes, it seems many wars since WW2 may have been just as Gen Eisenhower said, .."military/industrial complex.. I hope Trump and hopewfully Vance to follow, can get that mess cleared up..

  But back to the changing face..  Next move will be the improvgement of laser weapons..  They will cut some of the edge offered by drones and
   certain other weapons, due to low costof firing as related to amountof damage produced.

  Perhaps, some noticed how the Russian tanks..even their top operational tank, the T90, seeem to really come apart in a dramatic way when hit..

  That is because of their obsolete ammo supply design. Today, most western tanks, have the main gun ammo, in a separate compartment, to
 be fed to the main gun one at a time.. a separate compartment which blows the top of that compartment, should it be detonated for some reason.

  On the other hand, the Russian tanks, being self loaders, need access to ammo from a convenient and consistant ready rack.  Thus, the ammo is stored in the turret for ready access by the  robotic loader.  This means that any projectile or explosion that penetrates the turret, sets off the ready ammo, which when it "cooks off", usually blows the turret like a champagne cork !

  See illustrations of a T90 below.. other Russian tanks follow the same pattern.

[Lloyd Smale]

drones and unmanned planes and tanks blowing each other up brings us up close to what war usually is, not a man against man thing a $ against $ fight. at least in the future they will last longer because it ends gorilla jungle warfair like in viet nam and street warfare like in Ukraine today. bad thing is it gives the edge to the richest most powerful country that isnt hamstrung by liberal politician. that gives china a big advantage in the future with things probably getting worse here. just look at the money the left is wasting fighting every policy of trumps and the cost of time and money to fight all those fights. money and TIME we could be using to build our military. As most here know im a FIRM believer in our constitution but can you imagine how powerful we could become if he didnt have to answer to any of the radical (censored word) idiots!!! a world where the aoc's, pelosi's, shummer's, sanders and newsome's are sent to the gulag for treason!!! because thats exactly what they are, traitors to our way of life!! while were at it jail any hollywood alitest that think being a movie star or entertainer makes them a political voice! send them all on the same plane the illegals heading to foreign prisons are put on!! anything short of that and my guess is drones are flying over us in 10 years, if for no other reason than to monitor radiation levels!!

[Dee]

Well, the changing face of war ultimately depends on the location of the war concerning military equipment such as tanks. For instance, they were used very little in the Philippines in WWII, and in Vietnam because of the terrain.
An estimated 800,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in the war with Ukraine so tanks regardless of technology do not replace the foot soldier.
Drones can do this, and flir can do that, but boots on the ground will still be necessary.
At some point in the future, man will be forced back into clubs and rocks.

[gypsyman]

  I'm thinking that globalists that push the war agenda are already looking into a newer method of taking over country's. Instead of war as we think of it, internal attacks against the power grid, banking/communications, roads and travel. What would happen if in NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, the majority of the banking systems got hacked and wouldn't work for just a week? Very seldom when I'm at a store does anybody pay with cash. And, would the cash registers even work if the system wasn't working for credit card? How many could buy gas? What might happen if a couple major overpass's were shut down and semi's couldn't haul food into major cities? Port of Baltimore was shut down for almost 3 month's when the ship ran into the F.S. Key bridge. Russia managed to get rid of what they think was over 10 million people, Holodomor, 1931-1932 due to famine, drought and government intervention. (Covid-19 or bird flu come to mind??) With how much has taken place in this world in the last 10-15 years, I wont take anything off the table of possibility's!

[ironglow]

  I'm thinking that globalists that push the war agenda are already looking into a newer method of taking over country's. Instead of war as we think of it, internal attacks against the power grid, banking/communications, roads and travel. What would happen if in NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, the majority of the banking systems got hacked and wouldn't work for just a week? Very seldom when I'm at a store does anybody pay with cash. And, would the cash registers even work if the system wasn't working for credit card? How many could buy gas? What might happen if a couple major overpass's were shut down and semi's couldn't haul food into major cities? Port of Baltimore was shut down for almost 3 month's when the ship ran into the F.S. Key bridge. Russia managed to get rid of what they think was over 10 million people, Holodomor, 1931-1932 due to famine, drought and government intervention. (Covid-19 or bird flu come to mind??) With how much has taken place in this world in the last 10-15 years, I wont take anything off the table of possibility's!

  True; we are more intricately connected than many realize. To me at least, our interconnected highly technical systems, appear to me to be a line of dominoes...just waiting for some small event to topple domino #1..

  From what I see in TV commercials...if some stranger can get on the internet and steal your home..where it is gone before you know it,
    demonstrates a terrible vulnerability that pleases me not !

[Dee]

True; we are more intricately connected than many realize. To me at least, our interconnected highly technical systems, appear to me to be a line of dominoes...just waiting for some small event to topple domino #1..

  From what I see in TV commercials...if some stranger can get on the internet and steal your home..where it is gone before you know it,
    demonstrates a terrible vulnerability that pleases me not !

AGREED!

[Lloyd Smale]

crap half the adults under 40 would commit suicide if they lost cell phone service or be scrunched up in the corner shaking. 3/4s of them would flee the country if they implemented a draft to fight against a country like china!! another advantage to china. there young would serve because death would be a certainty if they didnt

[GTS225]

This talk of the "changing face of war" bothers me some.
Yes, IG was correct in his first post, and I can't help but think that we are slowly "sterilizing" combat to the point that we won't see the result of what we do. (Think globally, here.) 

An episode of the original "Star Trek" series comes to mind where two planets were at war with each other, but all attacks and counter-attacks were conducted by computer connections, and those deemed "casualties" were expected to just walk into a dis-integration chamber and cease to exist.  Yes, it's fiction and an extreme example, but even extremes start small.

I think "we" need open warfare, with the front-line fighters, ON BOTH SIDES, coming home in boxes, or missing body parts but still alive, to remind us ALL that warfare should be the VERY LAST RESORT in a dispute.

This concept of waging war with remotely operated, armed drones is just one of those small steps toward sterilizing combat to the point of being too easy and "clean", at least from the civilians' point of view.

Just my opine.....Roger

[ironglow]

This talk of the "changing face of war" bothers me some.
Yes, IG was correct in his first post, and I can't help but think that we are slowly "sterilizing" combat to the point that we won't see the result of what we do. (Think globally, here.) 

An episode of the original "Star Trek" series comes to mind where two planets were at war with each other, but all attacks and counter-attacks were conducted by computer connections, and those deemed "casualties" were expected to just walk into a dis-integration chamber and cease to exist.  Yes, it's fiction and an extreme example, but even extremes start small.

I think "we" need open warfare, with the front-line fighters, ON BOTH SIDES, coming home in boxes, or missing body parts but still alive, to remind us ALL that warfare should be the VERY LAST RESORT in a dispute.

This concept of waging war with remotely operated, armed drones is just one of those small steps toward sterilizing combat to the point of being too easy and "clean", at least from the civilians' point of view.

Just my opine.....Roger

   ..Certainly a valid concern !