Author Topic: Expander Ball Usage in Brass Re-Sizing  (Read 556 times)

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Offline safetysheriff

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Expander Ball Usage in Brass Re-Sizing
« on: March 28, 2004, 12:03:50 PM »
Some time back I was having very good luck using an RCBS Universal De-Priming die before re-sizing brass cases without the use of an expander ball/de-capping pin.      I did this with several calibers as I recall.    I did this to minimize case stretching, and the technique was Very effective when I lubed the cases with Mobil 1 Synthetic oil.    

However, I tried the trick of sizing Nickel-Plated cases without the expander ball and wound up with the pressures of seating a bullet causing the case wall/shoulder to collapse.   :eek:  :eek:   I'm guessing that the friction of seating a bullet against the un-polished nickel plating on the inside of the case neck caused the problems........since the expander ball had not been used to open up the necks a little bit more.  

I just figured that I'd share this troublesome experience with you as an admission that my success of late without the expander ball has been mixed since I ordered more calibers in nickel-plated cases.  :(

Take care, all.  

SS'
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline JPH45

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Expander Ball Usage in Brass Re-Sizing
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2004, 01:23:48 PM »
Nickel cases S U C K!!!!!!!!! The only thing they are good for is loading once and leaving them in a chamber (s)  for an indefinite period of time.  They will almost always extract and eject, provided the chamber wall itself has not rusted, but even then nickel plated brass may function. Outside of that narrow window, simple brass will give the best overall performance.

The design of most common resizing dies is to size the neck UNDER size, the expander ball then leaving the neck a few thousandths UNDER ball size so that on seating a ball, the neck will still have proper tension. Trying to seat a ball in any undersize brass such as you describe will result in crushed shoulders, no way out. Nickel plated brass is just that and is a coating on the OUTSIDE of the brass, any inside coating is secondary to the process and is UNCONTROLLED. Any plating that does exist inside the neck only serves to make the inside diameter of the neck after sizing but PRIOR to the expander ball SMALLER!!!! Nickel is actually HARDER than common steel, it is a main component of stainless steel and along with chromium, is one of the reasons for stainless steels reputations for hardness and properties of work hardening. The most common complaint of reloaders using nickel brass is its short life prior to splitting. Again, nickel is HARD!!!!! It does NOT take well to being worked and reworked. It is however very moisture resistant, it will not rust as it has no ferrous properties, and while it will over time oxodize and "fade" in color it will not as brass does have an electrolic reation with iron, as it is harder than iron, the iron will "sacrifice" first. Hence its performance over periods of time in moisture exposed, improperly cleaned and maintained revolver cylinders and rifle chambers. That is why the NYPD choose nickel brass, and why the rest of the nations police forces that require its use, do so. They don't want a cop out in the field unable to reload their revolver because the brass has "become one" with the iron of the cylinder. Quite similar problems exist with autoloaders, the rim will tear off leaving a completely inoperable pistol because the case is still for practical purposes still chambered.

My suggestion would be to relegate your nickel plated brass to "dresser drawer storage" or holster use, use proper reloading practicies and ignore any one who says they are using  nickel brass without using expander buttons because they are either using specially made dies or are just simply lying.

Nickel brass is however a good choice if you plan to be afield during the rainy season for the location you are hunting.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline Badnews Bob

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Expander Ball Usage in Brass Re-Sizing
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2004, 04:42:34 PM »
I never buy nickle brass but end up with them sometimes and I agree with JPH, I shoot alot of .357 in SASS comps, the nickled one split alot more often and I seem to crush some when reloading brass last longer and is easyer to reload 8)
Badnews Bob
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Offline Mac11700

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Nickle Brass
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2004, 05:56:23 AM »
Well I guess I'm in the minority as to using nickle plated brass. I use it exclusively for my 45-70 and have never had a problem with any of the necks splitting or crushing the cases. My loads for the 300 grain Nosler Partition give velocities above average,so I know that the pressures are somewhat higher too.I don't get a-lot of case stretching or any other out-of-the-ordinary case problems that one would associate by loading nickle brass for this.
 
 First I weigh each case and group them all within + - 1 grain of each other,I use Hornady's One Shot exclusively for my case lube and I follow the instructions spraying a light coat on the outside and also allowing it to do the neck on the inside as well and I also utilize my Lymans "M" die for slightly belling the case mouth for cast bullet usage.This die bells the mouth without over working it and is a great die to use.
 
To date using my reloading procedures,I have reloaded the same brass 10 times without losing any cases and the nickle is just showing some signs of flacking around the mouth.
 
I know this is a straight walled case and maybe that has a-lot to do with it,it would be different if I was loading for my 308 and using the nickle brass in that..do to the shoulder needing set back and working the brass on the curve and all..but for straight walled cases,pistol or rifle,I have never had any problems using nickle and use it as my primary type case.
 
Try getting a "M" die and the Hornady One Shot and see if it doesn't help you.It's a very small investment and certainly helps me.
 
Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline safetysheriff

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Expander Ball Usage in Brass Re-Sizing
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2004, 11:27:34 AM »
I don't plan on giving up on the nickel-plated cases.     Some time back a Sierra technician said that's what they use for their testing purposes...not that that's a deciding factor -- but they weren't having problems with them.    I have used them in the .223 and can't see a reason in that caliber to use anything else.

I don't worry too much about brass corroding because of the Mobil 1 I size my cases with.      Sure I wash a lot of it off but I'm thinking that some of it gets etched into the brass.....like it does in some metal-plating processes.    

In the Periodic chart of the elements nickel comes after iron and cobalt, and before copper and zinc going from left to right.     The further right on that given line the softer the materials become.      Scantium, titanium, vanadium, chromium, and manganese are to the left of iron.....   Nickel is actually soft....
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.