7x57 or 7-08?

[Gaz]

Now for something hypothetical!
Seeing that these 2 guys are doing the same job, which one will survive?
I know that the 7x57 has been doing it for 100 years, but the 7-08 does the same thing in a shorter action.
Just thought this question might be a bit of fun!
Gaz.

[huntsman]

For the factory ammo shooter, they both do the same job. Commercial ammo is much more widely available in 7mm-08 because it is promoted by the big USA manufacturers. The 7x57 isn't loaded to its true potential in most American commercial rounds because of the "old rifle" liability issue (i.e., these old actions that have been around for 70+ years might be weak, and we don't want a lawsuit when one of them blows up shooting our ammo). Of course, it could just as easily be argued that if a 70+ year-old rifle has withstood that much use and abuse, it has proven its strength. But we err on the side of liability nowadays in the good ol' USA. The handloader can easily get an extra 100-200 fps from the 7x57 with any given bullet (using safe procedures when working up loads, of course).

My conclusion: Both will be around for a very long time to come.

[Mikey]

Gaz:  got to agree with the huntsman on this one, totally.  This is just another instance of the 30-06 vs the 308, the 6.5 Sede vs the 260 and now the 7x57 vs the 7mm-08.  In the short action rifles, the shorter rounds will give you what you want from factory loadings but that is where the older and longer cartridges leave the shorter ones behind.  The older cartridges take the heavier bullets and shoot them better than the shorter cartridges do.  The best hype on this is the 308 vs the 30-06 - I know this is gonna start a thread but, I got rid of a 308 because it 'wouldn't do' and I preferred the 06 because it would.  

Lots of guys like the shorter actions for their light weight and favor the shorter cartridges.  I don't read much about the 175 gn bullet in the 7mm-08 but you hear a lot about it in the 7x57.  Same with the 155-160 gn load in the 260 and the 6.5 Swede.  And, of course, the 308 is real popular in the 150-165 grain but the 06 takes my preference with the 180-220s.  

Just my opinion, that's all............... Mikey.

[Fla Brian]

Mikey,

Absolutely, positively smack on!

The '06, 7X57 and 6.5X55 are more versatile in that they are better suited to the heavier bullets than their shorter cased cousins. The longer ones will work quite well with the lighter bullets as well.

[jdt48653]

what he said!

[MSP Ret]

I wholeheartedly agree!! What he said he said, it is correct!!!....<><.... :grin:

[rickt300]

I disagree with the remark that 7-08 factory ammo is much more widely available because it's not here in Texas.  In fact usually there is 3 times the 7x57 ammo on the shelf compared to the 7-08.

[Lawdog]

rickt300,

I have to agree with you.  The stores around here have more 7x57 ammo from different manufactures then they do 7mm-08 on their shelves.  Lawdog
 

[Big Paulie]

Okay, guys, I am sorry that I can't let that slur against the .308 Winchester go by.

   Now that you can get factory ammo, loaded with the Federal Hi- Energy or Hornaday Light Magnum loads, with 180 grain Barnes X bullets or 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets, there isn't anything on the North Amercan Continent, short of the Brown Bear or Polar Bear, that you can't drop cleanly with the .308, and you don't even have to handload!  Even the might Moose are being slayed routinely with this round.  (The real key is probably the excellent bullets.)

     Jeff Cooper took his .308 Scout rifle to Africa, with a 20 inch barrel, used the Hi-Energy loads with Barnes bullets, and shot 20 head of very large game, including the greater kudu, wildebeast and gazelle.  Eighteen of them were one shot kills.  Two of them were two shot kills (but for one of these, the animal was already lying on it side on the ground.)

    So really, the only reason to have a 30-06 now is so that you can buy the Federal Hi-Energy 30-06 round with the 180 grain bullet, and have the same ballistics (energy and velocity) as the good old 300 H&H mag.  (On the other hand, just buy a .300 Mag. )

Just my opinions.

Big Paulie

[Fla Brian]

Paulie,

I saw no "slur" against the .308. It is a fine round. But, anything the .308 can do can be done with a .30-06 - and then some. If you want to make a fair comparison, don't forget the Federal Hi-Energy and Hornady Light Magnum loads for the '06.

I think most would agree that the .308 tops out at 180 grain bullets, but the '06 can go as high as 250 grains. In a close encounter with a dangerous critter I'd want the most cartridge I could handle, but I'd certainly feel safer with a .30-06 and 250 grain bullets over a .308 and 180s.

As I said, the longer action cartridges are more versatile in their ability to handle heavier bullets than the shorter ones. That doesn't say that the short ones are bad, just that the longer ones are better - IMHO.

Cooper's Scout Rifle is a "concept" firearm in that he came up with a concept for a general purpose firearm in a mid-range chambering with a forward mounted scope and back-up sights. Among the criteria were that it be as short and light as possible. He chose the .308 because it works out of a short action, saving a bit of weight, and he wanted it to have moderate recoil. At the time the .308 best met his criteria. He didn't, as far as I can remember, start out with a cartridge specification and build a rifle around it.

He could just as easily gone with a .30-06 and settled for the additional weight and recoil. I think it is quite certain that he didn't pick the .308 for its superior ballistics over the '06. In fact, he also used the Steyr Scout Rifle in its .376 Steyr chambering where its use was more appropriate than the .308.

As it happens, my personal favorite scout rifle right now is a 6.5 Swede. Loaded with 160 grain bullets, it will handle any job the .308 is capable of. One day I hope to get around to finishing one in 8X57.