1860 Henry?

[Will52100]

Any body out there have a Henry?

I'm considering purchasing one in the not to distant future and am torn between the iron frame and the brass frame models.

I plan to get the 45 colt chambering and use black powder for the most part and the gun will be shot in frontier cartrige and frontier'sman classes, maybe a little duelist once in a while.

What I am conceraned about is reliability and longevity, it will be shot a lot, though probly not as much as some would.  My only concern with the brass frame is posible stretching and undue wear.  At close to a grand it should last me many long years or so I would think.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Will

[KSR]

I don't have one yet but know several people that do. IMHO I would
get the steel frame to shoot at match's, the brass just to look at or shoot
occasionally.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy pard,

I wish you well in your search and purchase.
The brass frame will not stretch with regular CAS loads, it is actually an alloy.  

As for your choices.. here's my dos centavos..
If you want to be a near re-enactor, then you want the brass version and you might want to go to 44-40, for your BP.  The 44-40 will seal better and the Henry is harder to clean than a '73.  
The real Henry was in 44 rimfire, so it's not possible to recreate that loading, so go with what works for you.  
The iron frame is more unique and cool, but not common to the period.

Adios,

[Flint]

As remarked, the 44-40 is a much better black powder round than the 45 Colt.  There was a 44-40 Henry shooter at our Cowboy match Sunday, and I asked him if much fouling got into the breech, he said very little, just a bit of patina in the area around the lifter and bolt.  The thin walled 44-40 seals the chamber very well.  The bronze frame is very reliable, and heavy loads would probably damage a steel framed 73 as quickly as a 60 or 66.  If you are shooting black powder, don't worry about the frame, it's stronger than any 19th century rifle was, iron or bronze.  I've been shooting a 66 in 44-40, smokeless for 10 years, and it's fine.

[Will52100]

Thanks guys, I realy like the look of both, but the iron frame is just plain cool.  I know a few early Henry's were iron frames, but don't know how many were made, and not sure if the iron frames were blued or casehardened.

I'll probably go with 45 colt as from what I understand you won't get much blow back with a case full of powder and a factory crimp.  Also the 44 Henry was a straight walled cartrige, not bottlenecked like the 44-40.  It's a shame they don't make a Henry in 44 colt, special, or magnum.

[Flint]

One thing the iron framed Henry is, is lighter.

[MOGorilla]

I have a Brass Henry in .44/40.  I don't reload, but shoot Winchester cowboy ammo and black hills.   Both work great and I have noticed no problem in the 2+ years I have owned it.  The steel frames, while great to look at, were made only in the neighborhood of 100-250 I believe and they were in the earliest production.  I would tell you the same thing I would tell someone buying a cap and ball revolver.  If at any point you might due further reenactment, you need to research your purchase intensly.  Odds are, most reenactment-civil war or otherwise would have issue with the iron frame, same as the .44 navy colts or brass framed Remmington.  If you plan on just doing CAS, go with what feels good.  I can't imagine that any BP load even with extensive shooting would cause a problem.  I really enjoy the gun, at 9.5 lbs, it is a heavy one, but that means little or no recoil as well.  My wife, who really does not like guns, shot it and swore she was shooting a .22.   She also thought it was the prettiest gun she ever saw too.  If you go for the military Henry, there is a compartment in the butt of the rifle that flips open.  This is for the military cleaning rod.  At present, the only location I know of to purchase this is Navy Arms.  Good luck, I really like the brass.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Actually there has been a run of Henry rifles in 44 special.  Check with www.traditionaleffects.com and see if they still have any available.

That said, I have seen the results of a 45 vs 44-40 Henry shooting blackpowder.  There was a pretty significant difference between fowling of the two.

Good luck!

[Cuts Crooked]

Big Hext is correct that fouling is an issue with the .45 in leverguns. However there is a way to overcome it. I worked with the .45 to learn to deal with that very problem. What I found is that you need to use heavy slugs, 250 - 255 grainers, as much BP as you can get in the cases (NO FILLERS) and still get 1/16 - 1/8" compression, a firm crimp, and "necksize" only! That last part is critical, size only the part of the case that holds the bullet! This leaves you with a case that almost looks like a true bottle necked one. And the rear protion of the case is fitted to the chamber close enough that crud can't blow back past it.

I have a .45 Rossi that has a rather generous chamber and it would foul the action VERY rapidly. Once I starting using the above method to construct my BP reloads, it almost completely stopped getting fouling in the action.

Also, try to find Winchester brass with the WW headstamp. It's thinner and obturates easier. (brass with the full word "Winchester" on the case head is pretty thick compared to the WW headstamp. Donno why that is, but it's what I've observed for a number of years now)

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Cuts,

Thanks for the real world experience and back up.  We'll have this poor fella completely bamboozled in no time.  
I've also heard that some folks use 44-40 brass for 45 rifles and the thinner brass stretches to accept the bullet and also stretches to fill the chamber.. again, hearsay, but I listen as much as I blab.. really!  :-D

Adios,

[Will52100]

You guys are gonna confuse the crap outa' me!

I don't plan on doing any renactment and don't plan on getting into CAS that seariusly.  Just once a month local matches, ect. don't have much time for more.  I just like shooting the old odd guns, the odder the better.

I don't know why the iron frame would cause a problem with re-enactors, it is authentic, if somewhat rare.  I could see if everybody had one it wouldn't look right but...?

Also when I do get a Henry one purpose will be short range deer hunting, and such, so that's one reasone I like the 45 over the 44-40.

I don't know about lever guns, but if you'll wipe every thing down on the inside with wonder lube black powder fowling comes off very easily with my cap and ball colts and the bore on my hi-wall cleans very easily after twenty or so rounds of 45-70 if I swab the bore befor the first shot.

Thanks,

Will

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Will,

I'm glad you've got a real bead on what YOU want.. An iron framed Henry in 45LC is a very cool gun.  

The problem with these chatty groups is that we end up giving a point, but not necessarily, the fully rounded perspective.  CAS is a big ol' messy fun blob of stuff.  You grab what you want out of it and grin like a madman!  :-D

Adios,

[Flint]

The 44WCF, (44-40) was the classic deer hunting round before the 30-30 came in.  It would still be a better deer hunting round than a 45Colt, as it would have a flatter trajectoy and higher velocity.  Also note that no 19th century rifle was ever chambered in 45Colt, for one reason, the 19th century 45Colt rim would not extract reliably, being rounded and small.  The Schofield revolver 45 S&W cartridge has a larger rim diameter for just that reason..

[Cuts Crooked]

HEAR HEAR!!!

Buy what YOU like! :grin:

As Flint notes, the 44-40 is a classic fer deer in lever guns! But I know that the .45 will do the trick too, at least in revolvers. I've taken three deer now with the .45 chambered in handguns. Unfortunately I can't use a centerfire rifle fer deer in Iowa, so I ain't had the chance to try it with my Rossi. (Beleave it or not the 44-40 in a handgun would be illegal here, even though the .45 is legal.....go figger! :? )

And if you get that Iron Frame Henry we'd like ta see pictures of it smokin up the range someday!!! :wink:

[Will52100]

Thanks Guys, I'm leaning towards the iron frame, but the brass frame looks good too.

Just how much flatter shotting is the 44-40?  Any major differances in velocity?  Anouther reason I am planning on the 45 is that I have several guns already chambered in 45.

[Tres Equis]

It's probably better in your case to just go ahead with the 45 Colt.  You don;t need the problems of not having interchangable ammo. Yes, in the past plenty of folks got along fine shooting 45s in their handguns and 44s in their rifles.  But we don't need to today.

And, all things being equal, it's not that much harder to clean the 45 BP fouling out of the rifle.  Just an extra 3 min.

I shoot 44-40s in most of my irons.  It wouldn't make much sense to me to have 1 gun in a different caliber.