Author Topic: Flintlock (Read 1128 times)

Good time Charlie · « **on:** April 06, 2004, 03:30:09 AM »

I would like to hear what you guys think of the TC hawken flinter. I have been bitten by the flintlock bug. I can't afford one of those custom jobs. I can pick up a used TC pretty cheep. Let know what you think.
Charlie

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2004, 04:25:13 AM »

I have one that was built from a kit a while back and contrary to the claims that it is not as traditional as they should be due to brass buttplate, trigger guard and forend cap, I love it. It is fun to shoot, dependable and I haven't had any problems with it.

It's a 45 caliber with the 1:48 twist and that seems to shoot round ball very well. It takes a little while to adjust to the slight delay of the ignition compared to percussion, but it really not that much. It's pretty much of a plinking gun for me as I don't have much game here that it is more suitable than my other larger caliber ones.

Just drop a bore light down the bore when inspecting it for pitting and everything else can be fixed or replaced easily.

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2004, 07:14:01 AM »

Thanks Tom. The one I am looking at is a .50 cal. The bore looks fine. The gun is in pretty good shape.
Charlie

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2004, 09:04:07 AM »

I have t/c flinter in 50 cal. that shoot great ,the best improvment for the t/c lock is to fit a lyman frizzen to the lock.I aslo use english flint and a new improve touch hole liuner for the barrel,I can't remember the last time I had a misfire

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2004, 09:54:37 AM »

I wouldn't shy away from less-than-custom flintlocks. It's just that if you are going to rely on a flintlock then you might want to go all out. By rely, I mean sell your other guns 'cuz you're going to make do with a flintlock.

But if you plan on keeping your cappers then T/C and Lyman is just fine. That way if you aren't confident with your flinter in all conditions - you can fall back on a caplock.

Don't necessarily assume you can't afford a semi-custom either. Remember you have some money in the guns you already have. I already had a GPR caplock in .54. I could spend another $300 for a GPR in flintlock, same caliber. I knew one gun wouldn't get used.

Instead I risked $850 on a semi-custom flintlock, carefully researching how to get reliability. Then after I was satisfied with it's performance, I sold the GPR for $215. So that was a total of $635 for the flintlock, and I use every penny's worth of it.

There's ways of saving the money and spreading the cost out. You can buy the barrel one year, the lock the next year. Then send the barrel and lock to a gun maker to "stock" it. He then returns it to you for final finishing. You saved yourself %11 from the Pittman-Robertson act, and in any given year you didn't spend a whole bundle.

Naphtali · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2004, 06:21:18 AM »

Black Jaque Janaviac:

I noticed you considered buying a Lyman GPR flintlock, that your cap lock version works well.

I placed this reply in another, similar thread. Here goes.

My wife took delivery on her Lyman GPR .50-caliber flintlock about 2-1/2 weeks ago. It is on its way to Lyman for repair/replacement. The facts are:

1. Hammer has no arrester to stop its forward slam on its lock plate.

2. Lock plate is warped -- that is, the pan stands away from the touch hole about 1/16-inch.

3. Double set trigger cannot be adjusted. Over travel screw adjusts nothing; it's too short. Trigger assembly is budget-priced, and I'm being tactful.

4. Butt plate screw hole misaligned. Screw head tears up clothing.
*******
The unfortunate thing about the situation is that these problems are not obvious until you do make-ready. There were several other niggardly problems, but these are expected on a rifle in this price range.

I have a friend who made a similar (right-handed) GPR from a kit. His is beautiful and works -- well, like it's supposed to. B U T . . .

He replaced Lyman's lock with L & R's replacement flintlock. It strongly resembles my L & R "Late English" lock. And quality of his workmanship is superior to that available on a $400-500 muzzleloader.

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2004, 06:39:54 AM »

Naphtali I have the same problem #4 butt plate screw should be removed and recentered otherwise that was the only flaw I found in the GPR

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2004, 10:01:47 AM »

Good Time Charlie,

Go for the T-C. I had the Pennsylvania Hunter and loved it. It was very reliable and accurate, both with round ball and with Lee REAL bullets. Only reason I got rid of it was that Alaska requires .54 for round ball on anything other than deer and couldn't find a replacement barrel in that caliber. I replaced it with a Lyman GPR flinter 3 years ago, but really wish I still had my T-C instead.

I modified the Lyman before I ever shot it by taking off the butt and toe plates and cutting the toe of the stock down by about an inch. I shortened the toe plate (had to drill another screw hole in it) and straightened out the butt plate. I had to file the later down to match the wood. I also sanded the stock down and finished it with Lin-Speed. It is comfortable to shoot and looks nice.

Naphtali, it sounds like you got a lemon there. Will Lyman make good on fixing it? My only problem with my GPR was that the barrel wedges were extremely tight in the staples, and a little prying on the staples with a screwdriver fixed that.

Good luck GTC, let us know if you get the rifle!

-WH-

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2004, 10:54:40 AM »

Winter Hawk I have A GPR and I have the hunter barrel also. +With the hunter barrel in and shooting the lee .320 gain bullet, the thing beats me black and blue. I think I need to rework the butt plate on it. I'll let you know how the TC works out.
Charlie

Naphtali · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2004, 04:24:37 AM »

Winter Hawk:

I am confident Lyman will restore the rifle to "acceptable for Lyman to have sold" without a squawk. This will not solve inherent design problems.

The flintlock, I assume derived from the originally offered percussion cap lock, can never be adjusted to be more than marginally reliable when compared with L&R's replacement flintlock, or their similar "Late English" lock. This has nothing to do with Lyman's quality of repair; it has everything to do with the basic lock design with which they must work.

The trigger assembly confuses me. I think this problem is solvable because I believe the problem was poor assembly in Italy. The over-travel take-up screw was unable to do anything because it is too short. I remember the semi-custom kit I mentioned earlier used a chrome-colored screw rather than my blued one. But I don't believe a GPR buyer buys an opportunity to fix poor workmanship; he buys a solution -- at least that's what I think.

The butt plate screw is clearly quality control in Italy. Redrilling the hole may be a problem because of bit run-out.

I have such little confidence in this flintlock rifle that I suggested that Lyman replace it with a less expensive percussion cap lock GPR. The should take care of the biggest problem -- cheap design. It does not yield a shootable flintlock rifle, though.

crow_feather · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2004, 05:26:47 PM »

I have found that if I bring my elbow up and put the but plate so that the bottom of the but plate is in my arm pit instead of against the meat of my shouder - there is no pain. I usually hold the rifle at a 60 degree angle to my shoulders and it seems to put the but plate where it belongs.
Works for me - hope it helps.

C F

tommy4toes · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2004, 04:29:38 PM »

I had the same problems with my GPR - I replaced the lock with an L&R, plugged, re-drilled and countersunk the buttplate screw, and replaced the sights for good measure as well. Turned out pretty good after that.
Then I bought a Chambers flintlock and sold the GPR........

t4t

Naphtali · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2004, 05:12:17 AM »

Progress report on returned Lyman GPR L-H .50-caliber.

As of May 5, no word from Lyman. They are supposed to reimburse me for shipping, also. If I had not confirmed their receipt of GPR on April 12, I would be more in the darkness than I am now.

Lyman's reticence, and the amount of time they are holding the rifle -- they have had possession longer than we have -- raises concern.

This is not a complex machine to fix. You fix it or you don't; you replace it or you don't. What you DO NOT DO is take more than three weeks to make a decision.

Prospective Lyman purchasers be aware.

And Lyman Products: this is not how you build your base of loyal customers.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2004, 11:59:31 AM »

Napthali,

I really sorry to read about your mess with Lyman. I hope they make good. I would be somewhat surprised if they don't as I've always heard good things about them, and my dealings with them have been positive as well.

One thing may be to ask for a higher level of assistance. Sometimes speaking with a "manager" helps. I never had to at Lyman, but in general this gets better service.

Naphtali · « **Reply #14 on:** May 06, 2004, 03:47:22 AM »

Black Jaque Janaviac: Lyman finally responded

Quote

We have received your gun. Unfortunately we are currently out of stock on
the parts we need to fix it. We are expecting a shipment any day. As soon as
we have the parts the repairs will be done.
Thank You
Lyman Customer Service

They could have saved themselves bad press from a disgruntled customer, but that requires what you have and they lack -- empathy.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2004, 05:57:44 AM »

Yes, bad press is not good for business.

Incidentally, I don't think I'd wanna armwrestle any woman who can handle a GPR! Those things are 9lb guns, and front heavy. Any woman that can lug that around in the woods oughtta be able to drag out her own deer, and probably her husband's deer too!

Naphtali · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2004, 06:30:16 AM »

Black Jaque Janaviac: . . . and mean as a snake

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2004, 08:32:35 AM »

Mean too! :shock:

In that case she probably makes you drag out her deer.

You probably shout "MA'AM, YES MA'AM!!" rather than the typical "yes deear" most guys sing.

crow_feather · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2004, 03:54:30 PM »

My wife - all 115 pounds of her - shoots a Lyman GPR 50 and placed second in the shooting competition for the last two years at our local vou. And I still have to drag her deer.

C F