Author Topic: Storing loaded cap n' ball revolver (Read 6712 times)

KH · « **on:** January 07, 2003, 06:49:19 AM »

Does anyone have any experience with keeping a percussion revolver loaded for moderate periods of time? Assuming dry conditions and a safe location, are there any inherent problems associated with the moisture, oil, etc preventing combustion over a few weeks or months?

Flint · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2003, 09:41:34 AM »

Folks used to do it in the good ol' days. If they don't get wet, they're probably OK. Heard of some folks shooting charges that were loaded for 50 or more years, but I don't think I would chance the cylinder not being almost rusted through from the inside.... Be careful with a capped gun, load only five, hammer on the empty chamber and put a BIG SIGN on it so you don't kill someone next month. If a Remington, pull the cylinder out, if capped, be VERY careful putting it back in. Heard that Wild Bill Hockock fired his Navies empty every day, cleaned and reloaded for the new day, fresh and ready, didn't help him in the end, though. If the gun is capped, it would be dangerous to try to uncap it, and I wouldn't store it that way, or even put it in my car to take home that way. If uncapped, and not likely to get rained on, maybe OK.

HappyHunter · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:14:20 AM »

I am new to cap and ball. I have a cheap brass frame army 44 that is probably the only gun I own that I can shoot better than.

But it is FUN. I am waiting for an order of lead balls to shoot again.

Once I shoot a few more times I will be back here with stupid questions.

Fred a/k/a HappyHunter

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2003, 12:08:18 PM »

Hunter!! Don't wait ta ask stupid questions!! You can help take the heat off of me!!! :-D

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2003, 12:25:53 PM »

Why do you say it is dangerous to try to remove the caps?

Now realize my only experience in this area is with my caplock rifles and I've taken caps off them plenty of times.

GB

Flint · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2003, 02:44:00 PM »

It's just that the revolver nipples are buried deeper and can be tight enough to need a tool like a pocket knife to remove. The caplock rifle can live with looser caps than the revolver. If one did go off, it could be a serious problem. Nor do I want tp drop a capped, loaded cylinder on the ground.....

The Shrink · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2003, 12:51:59 AM »

Understand that I'm speaking completely theoretically, but if I were to want to store a c&b pistol loaded I'd look into paper cartridges. They were widely used in the Civil War, and easily made with nitrated paper. This won't solve the rusting problem completely, but should minimize it. I know, it's the salts that cause the rust, and nitrate is a salt. I'm just imagining that the concentration of nitrates on the surface of the paper can be made less than what is in the powder.

Of course, as this is theoretical, I could be all wet. Come to think of it, that may be the solution - deal with the water, not the salts. Keep it in a closed area with one of those absorbant packages. Keep the air dry and this will minimize the rust.

tryit · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2003, 04:55:20 PM »

KH, I have had a lot of experience with long term loaded capandball pistols. I keep a pair of loaded cap an ball pistols in my over night kit. They are loaded with a accurate powder charge and a tight ball with a lubed wad. The nipples are sealed with bees wax as the orginals were. I have the occasion to examine a large number of loaded orginals that when fired did so with gusto. The only problem is sometimes if the nipples were not sealed well the nipple did rust badly. As far as modern guns they can be left loaded for years and fire with a high degree of certainty.Tryit.

Chris · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2003, 06:55:54 PM »

KH

Don't normally remove the cylinder once loaded...but it doesn't seem to be any more hazardous than handling cartridges. Most range officeres consider a capped cylinders, removed from the firearm, as safe. Regardless, I suppose there is some danger if you dropped a loaded cylinder. From my perspective the gun is more hazardous WITHOUT nipples in place on loaded cylinders...an ignition source from any direction could ruin your day, if it found an uncapped cylinder. Sends a shiver up my spine just thinking about it.

...my two cents!

Be Safe! ...Chris :-)

The Shrink · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2003, 01:29:09 AM »

Tryit

How do you seal the nipples with beeswax so that it still fires?

tryit · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2003, 04:40:31 PM »

Wayne, Mr. Handcock of Richmond Va. of whom father served in the War for Southern Independence had shown him how to load the revolver showed me. First place a cap on the nipple and seat it tight using the hammer to flush it up. When all the nipples are charged primed then take bee's wax and melt it around the cap and nipple to seal the nipple and and the area under the nipple. Use the hammer to be sure the hammer wil contact the cap and nipple for clearence. Then charge the cylinders with the most accurate charge and use a light ring of bee's wax to seal the bullet into the chambers. "Tend to the bee's wax if needed in cold weather and repair any cracks with soft neaded wax and CAREFULLY use the hammer for proper clearence". It works and I use a like method to seal my carry pistols.Tryit.

KING · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2003, 05:41:32 PM »

Tryit..............:shock: :shock: I have a real problem with charging the cap and ball AFTER.. the cylinder has been capped. That looks like a real quick way to get into trouble. No this might be a real stupid question...but.....why would anyone want to keep a cap and ball charged...unless yer talking about while hunting Im trying to come up with a good reason other than overnight at a hunting camp. As fer self defense,in todays world i dont think I would be entrusting my life to one of these critters. Ya might get the first shot,but............. There are alotta other guns to be using fer that and a lot more reliable also. King

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2003, 02:46:38 AM »

On the contrary King, what would be more intimidating to a thug who had entered your abode than a sombrero wearing, crossed bandolier styled bad man with a pair of 8" .44 armies or Remingtons in his hands? The thunder, smoke and perhaps even a hit or two would convince the miscreant he had chosen the worst target he could have. He might even give up his misdeeds forever.

Dan C

The Shrink · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2003, 04:48:40 AM »

While I don't use C&B pistols for home or personal defense, I have to admit that when fired in the dark they are very impressive! I still think a cartridge pistol or a double shotgun is best, though.

KING · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2003, 06:13:38 AM »

DC. Well,i have seen what they look like when I have had my Glock,and when the are facing a 12...But I gotta admit...That photo would be priceless with the look on the varmints face. That would be great. Probably think he stepped into a time warp......HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH king

tryit · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2003, 05:21:11 PM »

Wayne, some times I have to travel to areas that have restrictive handgun laws and spent a lot of time there. Lets face it I do not like going to any place and not having some method of of self defence. Thus the .36 pocket navies. They are accurate as any firearm I have and except in a few radical places they are not considered a firearm. As for loading a capped cylinder there is no difference in that and reloading a primed brass shell of modern design. Tryit.

The Shrink · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2003, 10:09:39 AM »

tryit

Yeah, I've thought of that. All I know is that the 1968 Federal firearm law did not consider anything designed or built before 1898 a firearm in that law. I don't know if any other laws have said the same. It would be in the definiations in the law, not in the body of the law. I'd want to know the law in the particular area I'm going to be in before I'd use that reason.

If that's the case, then I'd fully agree with you. Except I think I'd use my Sheriff's .44.

I guess it's what you have and are used to.

KING · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2003, 10:41:40 AM »

Not to add any more confusion to this subject but here is what the law says about a cap and ball revolver. If it is found on your person,loaded,or in a manner that a cartridge gun would be,and you dont have a ccw....You be going to jail . Commit a crime with one,and it is still considerd a firearm. Just becasue of the way it is loaded does not make it exempt from firearm laws. It may make it exempt from registration law. Here in Mi.,it does have to be registered. King.....hope this helps ya a little....................

KH · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2003, 12:47:37 PM »

Thanks everyone for your input on this topic. There are valid reasons for keeping a percussion revolver for home defense. I know they are capable of doing the job, but I was uncertain about their reliability. I have a pair of 1860s, one with a 3" barrel, that I'm keeping loaded. My problem is that I can't seem to keep from shooting them every couple of weeks so I don't have experience with longer term storage. From the input I've received, I believe they'll be reliable and dependable if they're ever needed.

Hellgate · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2003, 05:38:52 PM »

I would never count on a longtime loaded C&B that had a lube wad under the ball for fear that oil would leach into the powder and cause "floofers". If i were (did in the past) to rely on a loaded C&B in storage I'd be real sure that the chambers were completely devoid of any oil or lube and that the nipples were completely free of debris and oil as well before capping and storing. I doubt that I'd even bother to put lube over the ball. It too could migrate oilinto the powder and you're only going to fire 5 or 6 rounds anyway if you really need to (not an all day shooting session requiring lots of lube to prevent binding).

simonkenton · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2003, 11:19:22 AM »

Try it- When you are loading your .36 for long term what kind of wad do you use? As to sealing the ball with wax, do you load the ball like normally and just pour a little melted wax on top of it? Are percussion caps non corrosive?

John Traveler · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2003, 07:19:54 PM »

Some people like thin felt wads soaked in bullet lube for loading under the ball. The felt you can get at arts and crafts supply stores. Lubricant can be melted beeswax or a beeswax/parafin mixture (like candle wax).

Sealing the ball on top is easy too: Just light up a candle and drip melted wax on and over the seated ball. be sure to let it flow into the space between ball and cylinder bore.

All cap 'n ball primers are non-corrosive. But that non-corrosive means that the firing RESIDUE is not corrosive. BP firing residue is VERY corrosive and should be cleaned on the same day as firing.

There is an interesting story about the Jesse James gang back to the 1880's with the demise of the JJ gang. A fully-loaded Starr percussion revolver was found inside a clay crock of pork fat in the 1960's, I think it was, and the crock was traced to being found at a "safe house" used by members of the James gang. The thing was in good shape, but no word of how good the loads were.

If any of you plan to store your guns for eternity, stay the H____ away from salt pork! That salt plays havoc with the gun blue!!

simonkenton · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:37:10 AM »

Can't you buy pre made wads?

The Shrink · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2003, 01:33:08 AM »

Simon

Sure you can, some of us just like to do things the hard way! Actually, I use Wonderwads and homemade, depending on what I have. If I'm not going to shoot it immediately, I use the Wonderwads, they are drylubed. Otherwise I use door and window seal felt, it's wool and sold in hardware stores in rolls. The "felt" in arts and crafts stores around here is poly, not wool. It's also only 1/8" thick, not thick enough for me. I lube this with my bullet lube, Beeswax, Anhydrous lanolin, Crisco, and LubeGard.

Fred · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2003, 05:10:27 PM »

Lets see now, range officers who treat loaded and capped clyd. as safe, or as an unloaded gun, shooters prying off caps off of loaded clyd. rather carry around a loaded clyd. capped than uncapped, loading powder and ball over a capped clyd. bore, who gets the Danny dumb dumb award, the stupid award or the I'm dead award

Has anyone heard of Gun Safety==common sense???

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2003, 02:35:14 AM »

Fred;

You touched on several good points. I'm afraid there is no safe way to remove a cap from the nipple of a loaded revolver chamber...except pointing it in a safe direction and shooting it! Caps are impact sensitive and if you have exposed a nipple by rotating the cylinder, you now have a loaded chamber outside the confines of the barrel channel. Are caps more or less impact sensitive than centerfire primers? I wonder? To attempt to pry, scrape, pull or yank that cap frightens the beejeezuz out of me. For those who have done it, and done it successfully, I say there is a law of averages you are playing footsie with. Even Hickock fired his cylinders before cleaning and reloading with fresh charges.

Now, for those of you who have purchased spare cylinders for your revolvers for those "rapid" reloads, I say you are foolish to attempt to switch cylinders that are loaded & capped! These guns are cheap, they are obsolete and I love them all, but they were state of the art killing machines a scant 125 years ago and one can assume they killed their share of careless gun handlers as well! They are as unforgiving as modern guns and to become cavalier about their care and storage is to invite disaster. Respectfully,
Dan C

xnmr53 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2003, 12:15:29 PM »

Shrink,

There was a story in a magazine some time ago about a man on his way to a range with a sheriff's model 45 loaded with black powder rounds, who interrupted a carjacking by firing once at the perp. He missed, but the ball of flame and smoke that came out of the short barrel must have looked like the gates of hades to the carjacker, for he dived to the pavement and assumed the position. About all the police were able to get out of him for about 45 minutes was a repeated, "G__ D___, what did he shoot at me with?

?" :-)

HWooldridge · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2003, 09:21:46 AM »

For those of you who remember the newspaper cartoon Rick O'Shay, you may also remember the series episode when Hipshot Percussion was severely wounded and almost killed because a bad hombre was able to get to his '51 Navy Colts while Hipshot was in the bathtub, pull the caps and dribble a little water into each cylinder - then replaced the caps. The villain called him out and shot him down when all Hipshot could do was snap his caps - POP! POP!

After he mended, Hipshot's solution was to buy a pair of .45 Colt 1873 pistols and then the bad man got his comeuppance. Food for thought on using a cap & ball for home defense. A .45 Colt loaded with blackpowder would make quite a fireworks show for your home intruder and still be very reliable. I personally keep a .44 Special Peacemaker for that duty...Hollis

1860 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2003, 01:15:54 PM »

I agree with Fred, a range officer who considers a capped cylinder safe, should be fired. All one has to do is drop the cylinder and if it lands on a cap--boom, it happend in Pa some years ago. Guy was showing his neighbor his new toy, removed the cylinder and dropped it on a stone driveway, ball went in his chin and he's lucky to be alive. There is some dangerous info being put out here.

1860

Gatofeo · « **Reply #29 on:** March 02, 2003, 08:51:44 AM »

<Gatofeo high-fives 1860!>
Absolutely, 1860s! Tons of bad information out there on the web, including here.
I own a Marlin 1895 .45-70 and it gives me the willies to see the loads posted as gospel by those afflicted with "Magnumitis."
I've also seen loads and practices for cap and ball guns that I found questionable, if not downright dangerous.
A couple of years ago --- I can't remember if it was in this website --- one shooter spoke of putting a "smidgen" of Bullseye smokeless powder in the bottom of the chambers of his Ruger Old Army .44!
He said it shot cleaner that way.
Everyone else warned him that it was an extremely dangerous practice to use ANY amount of smokeless powder in a black powder gun but he pooh-poohed us all.
Wonder when the thing finally let go? Never saw him again after his initial post.
Amazingly, I recently ran across an American Rifleman of the 1930s, in which the article writer speaks of using a small amount of bulk shotgun smokeless powder in his original Remington .44 cap and ball!
:eek:
I was amazed that the esteemed American Rifleman would even let him mention such a thing. But I guess a great deal has been learned since that article was written.
The danger of using smokeless powder in any black powder gun, new or old, is well-established. (I don't consider the Savage muzzleloader a black powder muzzleloader, since it's clearly marketed to people who want to cheat by using smokeless powder).
I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers since about 1970 and I'm still learning.
Today, we have much better information and equipment for the use of cap and ball revolvers.
When I started, absolutely no one offered felt wads, you cast your own balls or purchased balls of unknown alloy and no one realized that petroleum-based greases and oils created a hard, tarry fouling when used with black powder.
The finest book on black powder, in my opinion, is the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual (copyright 2001).
If I'd had it back in 1970 --- via the courtesy of a Time Machine, of course --- I would have avoided a lot of experimentation and failures.