Author Topic: MN 91/30 is a challenge.......  (Read 802 times)

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Offline RB Rooson

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« on: April 14, 2004, 04:20:08 PM »
The Mosin-Nagant 91/30 is not my most accurate rifle, but........I am fascinated by this gun!  I was able to buy one that was in pretty good shape and the barrel was "re-arsenalized" and in pristine condition.  (I think I am the first one to shoot this rifle since 1933.....the rifling was in excellent condition - looked brand new).

So this rifle is at least 71 years old and I am determined to shoot it with some accuracy.  

But....the 7.62 x 54R ammo is all over the place.  I bought some Albanian and at 80 yards the pattern for 5 shots was consistant with hitting your local stop sign.   I bought some Czech and I can now hit a dollar-bill size area at 80 yards.

Is this type of inconsistency typical?
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Offline S.S.

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2004, 04:10:35 AM »
Mosins are quite touchy when it comes to ammo they like!
One of mine really likes the "Very Corrosive" old
Chinese stuff with the 149 Gr. hollow base bullets.
But it will not group with anything over 180 grains.
Another one is just the opposite!
My 1938 model will not really group well with anything
I have yet fired through it.
While my old SIG manufactured mosin will "GRAZE" on anything
with equal accuracy!
The rifling twists appear to be about the same in all of them,
but I am not sure of bore/Groove diameter on any of them.
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"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Longcruise

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2004, 09:05:49 AM »
Had similar experience with the Czech "silvertip" ammo.  It put 5 rounds into 3/4 inch at 50 yards from a m38.  The same m38 didn't do very well with some 204 grain soft ponts and a 91/30 shot poorly with 174 fmj even though it has a beautiful bore!

I love those m38s' and may use one for my next elk hunt if I can piece together the right ammo.  It's hard to leave the swiss at home, but the m38 it so much easier to carry.

Offline Robert357

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2004, 09:59:23 AM »
I too have an MN1891/30, manufactured in 1939 at the Tula Arsenal and "rearsenaled" prior to importing by Century Arms.

>>I am fascinated by this gun! I was able to buy one that was in
>>pretty good shape and the barrel was "re-arsenalized" and in
>>pristine condition. (I think I am the first one to shoot this rifle
>>since 1933.....the rifling was in excellent condition - looked
>>brand new).

That rifle of yours probably has been assigned to more people than you would believe.  While Russia produced a huge number of MN rifles during WW-II, they were all needed to fight the wars.  I wonder if mine (that was originally manufactured in 1939) was used in the invasion of Finland, if it was shipped to troops that eventually were deployed against the Germans or what its history was.

>>So this rifle is at least 71 years old and I am determined to shoot
>>it with some accuracy.

I share your feelings.  That is why I have taken to handloading mine.  

The most accurate Factory ammo I have found for mine is both the Wolf 180 grain ammo and the Winchester Metric 180 grain ammo.  I have bough a fair amount of the Winchester Metric at about $9.50 to $10 per box at gunshows, so I can use it for reloading.  For large groups (ie 10 round groups-not excluding flyers) and using factory ammo, I get about 3 inch by 3.5 inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights.  Others claim much smaller groups, but rarely state their group sizes.  They could also be much better shots than I am.  Most factory 180 grain ammo seems to shoot high.  I curred this by raising the front sight on my MN1891/30 with a roll pin from the hardware store that slips over the front sight pin and raises it by about 1/10th of an inch.

I have also purchased 100 pieces of brass from Graff and sons for reloading and have reloaded all my Winchester Metric brass.  My reloads include cast bullets and jacketed bullets.  My handloads are more accurate than the factory ammo.  

If you want to see a discussion group on target loads for the MN where people ocassionally indicate that they are getting incredible accuracy (I have to take some of it with a grain of salt) check out the following website.
 
http://pub125.ezboard.com/fcollectorguns35625frm2.showMessage?topicID=343.topic

Many of what they are talking about are very very accurate Finnish M39's, which may indeed be capable of sub-minute of angle accuracy.  I would suspect that an standard issue and used MN 1891/30 with 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards is still respectable compared to many hunting rifles.

Personally, I am really enjoying shooting cast bullet loads at reduced powder levels using 155grain and 175 to 180 grain bullets.   Once you get the barrel really cleaned out, they shoot quite accurately, don't kill your shoulder, and cause a lot of people at the range to come over to see what the heck is going on with that funny old iron-sighted rifle that shoots as good as their $800 hunting rifle with super scope.

Offline Kentone

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2004, 04:15:43 PM »
Hi Guys,

This is great stuff!
I stopped by the local Dunhams to look at the 91/30 mn, and brougt
home a 91/30 and m38 laminate stock! Both look very nice in & out.
Had to get both because price was so good.
They came from Century Arms, both have been refurbished.
Got to go! Got some cleaning to do.

Take Care
give me calm,hot days

Offline Geno

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I know what you mean
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2004, 04:25:53 PM »
saw the ad for Fleet Farm last week. So I stopped in to take a look, ended up leaving with a 91/30 and a model 44. Couldnt decide, so I had to take both. cant wait to clean them up and try em out.

Offline His lordship.

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They are really selling.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2004, 08:30:10 AM »
Geno...I know what you mean.  I saw the same add for the Mills Fleet Farm store in Brooklyn Park, MN, at $89.00 went there on the 13th and they were totally sold out.  The sales rep said they had 30 Model 44s two days before, now gone, have to do a rain check if you want one.  

My complaint with that store is they get unpleasant about looking in another box for a handpicked rifle, I bought a Model 91/30 from them in December, cheaper than the gun shows at $99.00, but the display rifle had poorly imprinted markings, the next rifle in the box was better, which I bought.  I saw one guy who bought a hex shaped receiver version of the model 91/30 on the 13th, which cleaned out that store of any MN's At least at the gun shows you can hand pick em'.  So I might wait at this point and see the show guns, even though they go for around $130.00.

But still, they are selling like crazy, and that is good for us as the ammo will become more readily available due to demand.

Offline Longcruise

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2004, 02:10:14 PM »
Aztec Arms has Mosins as nice as you will find anywhere.  44's at $49.95 and 91/30 and m38 at 54.95.

Just got two m38's and an 91/30.  One 38 shoots great the other don;t know yet.  The 91/30 has the sharpest bore of the three.

Each one comes with two ammo pouches, a sling and an oil bottle.

Offline 1911crazy

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2004, 11:32:15 PM »
All I can say is get them while there hot!!!!!!!!!  And cheap too!!!!! This has to be one of the best times to buy these great guns.   BigBill

Offline Big Blue

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2004, 02:49:46 PM »
My M38 just loves the Czech silvertip. I get great accuracy using it, even with these iron sights. Big Bill, your 100% correct, get them while they're hot, we may see these for a lot more money in the not so distant future.
Don

Offline 1911crazy

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2004, 03:13:57 PM »
Quote from: Big Blue
My M38 just loves the Czech silvertip. I get great accuracy using it, even with these iron sights. Big Bill, your 100% correct, get them while they're hot, we may see these for a lot more money in the not so distant future.
Don


Thats great to hear I have some cases of Czech ammo but I haven't shot any of it yet.  I'm still on my first case of Chinese 7.62x54.   BigBill

Offline Kentone

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MN 91/30 is a challenge.......
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2004, 04:12:01 PM »
Hi Guys,

As a side note, Midway is selling the Lee Loader for the 7.62x54R
for about fourteen bucks.
This is a cheap and easy way to load this cartridge.

Take Care
give me calm,hot days

Offline Robert357

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More on the Lee Loader
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2004, 06:57:55 PM »
Actually, purchasing a Lee Loader so that you can just "neck size" cartridges for your MN is a pretty good idea.  Neck resizing is usually thought to result in more accurate reloads.  

There is an interesting post by a 303 British enthusiast that discusses a way to use both a Lee Loader and a press to neck resize the British 303.  I just purchased both a Lee Classic Loader and a universal depriming die so that I could utilize this "out of the box" method of reloading.  (Yes, I have a Lee regular 7.62x54R reloading die set that I have used quite a bit, even though I had to put in a larger depriming pin and expander pin from my SKS 7.62x39 Lee die set.)

My reasons are that I want my brass to last longer, and that I have a feeling that with the MN headspacing on the rim, that neck sizing is likely to really help fire form the shoulder and other aspects of the round so that it will shoot better.

P.S.  the website that discusses how to use the Lee and your press for neck sizing is at the following URL (look for the Lee Loader link at the bottom of the page and read all the pages)

http://www.303british.com/

Or just try this

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/Lee1.htm