Author Topic: 150gr spitzer in 30-30 not so good (Read 1586 times)

jeff223 · « **on:** April 15, 2004, 07:22:00 AM »

after shooting the 125gr spitzers out of my 30-30 i was sure the 150s would shoot.they were all over the paper.the only thing i did different with the 150s compaired to the 125s was to seat to the lands with the 150s.well just back from the lands.maybe this gun likes a long jump to the lands.it allmost makes me think the scope is no longer holding zero.it went from just under 1 inch to about a 6 inch group.one would be high then one would be low.then i would put one in the bull.then high again then low.it allmost acts like something is loose somewhere but everything is all tight

do you think me seating the bullets long just off the lands could cause this?all the other rifles i have delt with like the bullets seated close to the lands.

back to the drawing board with the 150s

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:38:33 AM »

Jeff:

You should always start out at the recomended lenght and starting loads and work out from there.If you are loading up towards the max..you might find that by backing off to the start loads and reduce the overall lenght you might find you sweet spot....I had the same problem with my 30-30 and thought I could take a short cut...only to find out the same thing. You have a longer bearing surface on the 150 grainers and might not need to set it out as far...or you could find that your handi ..just plain doesn't like that paticular brand of bullet...I went thru several months of playing around varying the lenght,,powders,primers,bullets,crimp till I found a couple that gave ok accuracy.I never did find one that gave me those 1 holers we all look for...I hope yours is different.Sometimes it's just the luck-of-the-draw...

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:03:50 AM »

Jeff, you did not give your load data. That might tell us something. I generally take results like those you are reporting to be inconsistant burn. A starting load with a slow-for-cartridge powder and the increased capacity and lower bullet pull of forward seating could give those results.

Several posters have reported better accuracy seated well back from the lands, but that's one of the last things I fool with.

jeff223 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2004, 11:33:33 AM »

the load that i used with the 125 gr bullets was 37gr then i went to 38gr of blc2.both these loads shot a 5 shot group under 1 inch at 100yds.the 38gr is max and that shot the best out of the two.im very happy with this load for a 125 gr bullet

the load i used for the 150gr bullet was 35 gr of blc2.some of the data that i have says that this is a max load and the other data says different with 37gr being max.

i get no signs of pressure with any load used so far.like i said i did in fact seat the bullet just off the lands.the 125gr bullet was seated well below that so the bullet had a long jump to get there.the bore looks good so i think im getting a compleat burn

lendar · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2004, 12:30:35 PM »

This may scare you, but I have been getting great groups in the 30/30 handi-rifle with 33.5 grains of WC-846 and a 147 grain military FMJ. I seat them to 2.80 mol. It is the best group of anything I have ever tried in this rifle. Its also rather cheep to shoot. I don't think I would want to try them in a tube feed gun.

Big Blue · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2004, 04:15:03 PM »

Jeff,
This sounds like the same deal as with the .308 and .223 Handi jump. They have that loonng jump to make to the rifling, and seem to really like doing it. I'll give some loads a try on Sat. in my Win. 94, both max. COL, and published 30/30 COL, and see which does better. I'll try this with the 168 gr. charged to published 170 gr. 30/30 loads.
Don

safetysheriff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:01:32 PM »

Jeff,

As big of a fan as I am of BL-C(2), using it or the bulk form(wc-846) in my .223 and .308, I have a gut reaction that you want a faster powder with the .30-30. My reasoning tells me that with spitzer bullets having shorter bearing surfaces than typical .30-30 flat noses you are not building pressures the same way in your rifle as conventional ammo would. Sure, the use of BL-C(2) getting such good accuracy with the 125 grainers would make you think I'm headed in the wrong direction, but I still think you should go to a faster powder like H322. One of the older Hodgdon booklets I have says this powder being a short-grained, extruded-type meters well and produces "amazing accuracy" in small and medium capacity cases.

Just a gut reaction, but the reasoning I've stated above makes me hope you'll try it and let us know.

Take care.

handirifle · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:38:56 PM »

Jeff
I tend to agree with safetysheriff.

jeff223 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2004, 08:27:08 AM »

thanks guys,i think i will give a different powder a try like you said.in my data it lists the blc2 for the 30-30 but it sure doesnt shoot good with the 150gr spitzer.this load is the worst load i have ever seen.i guess i have always been lucky with my reloading up to this point with no bad loads.i will let everyone know what i come up with.

thanks everyone for the replies

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2004, 03:02:04 PM »

The other thing to remember is that these little rifles can be finicky on what they want. My .30-06 was classic. I started low with the powder, loaded 5 rounds, then upped the charge 1/2 grain and loaded 5 more, on up to book maximum charge. At the bench the first group was over 6" at 100 yards, then as the loads got hotter it sucked down to 1.8". From that point the groups opened up again, just like what the books say will happen. That was using a peep rear and blade front sight, incidentally. I think it would have been tighter if I had put a scope on, but then the rifle wouldn't be as handy to carry.

Your 125 grain load might have been just right for the rifle, and you may need to experiment with different powder weights with the 150 gr. bullet.

Good luck!

-WH-

Big Blue · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2004, 01:15:15 PM »

I gave the 168 grains a try today. Loaded some to 30/30 published COL, and others almost to the rifling. Like Jeff's loads, the longer ones were terrible, looked like I used buck shot. The 30/30 length was better, but still not real groups. I was using IMR 4064, and loaded on the light side. I'll try a heavier load, and if that don't work, I'll switch to Varget and see how that does.
The good news is I was able to get my best group ever out of my .223 Ultra. It shot a .43" five shot group at 100 yards, unfortunately I was using the Winchester USA 45 gr. JHP ammo and not my handloads. It seems like the different things I've done to that rifle, have combined to make it shoot better. Switching to the Bushnel 6-18x50, weighting the stock, trigger honed and action polished, and of course the old o-ring.
Don

Tom W. · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2004, 03:43:47 PM »

I've loaded some 150 gr. Sierra GameKings with a charge of 38 gr. of IMR 4831 and a COL of 2.843. They shoot great in my Handi rifle, but I think I have one of those that like almost anything I feed it!

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2004, 09:28:47 PM »

big blue
What did you do to the action to polish it? Don't think I've heard that one yet.

Big Blue · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:47:19 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

big blue
What did you do to the action to polish it? Don't think I've heard that one yet.

Handi,
The first time I ever really messed with an action, was on my Marlin 1894. I had followed instructions from the Marauder web site, by a guy named Lionel Roach, aka Jonah, in an article called Tuning Marlin Lever Actions. I took that way past honing, and into the range of polishing. Using 600 grit wet and dry sandpaper, with honing oil, and many, many hours of lightly rubbing, I was able to get a mirror(polished) finish on it. When I tried the honing intructions from Perlo's site, I used the same method, of polishing the parts with the 600 grit, honing oil, and lots of time. My first attempt at honing the trigger, did have a few set backs. Firstly, when reinstalling the parts to test the pull, the hook on the hammer snapped off. I ordered a new SB-1 hammer, and trigger from Numrich, and had plenty of time to play with them, so I sat watching the tube, and polished away. Since then, I did two more of my rifles with no problems. The Ultra, only needs a strong thought to trip the trigger, perfect for varmint/target work.
Don

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2004, 05:16:36 PM »

thanks.

snowbound · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2004, 03:22:55 AM »

I have ran extensive testing on the NEF 30-30 using spire tips, Flat points and Round nose bullets...I have found it is normally not the bullet but the powder that makes the difference. I will get my notes together and post tomorrow on the various loads....125 gr, 150 gr, 165 gr, 170 gr, 180 gr. Normally the book COL is around 64MM. I loaded anywhere from 64mm out to 70mm..I will give one load now that shot lights out at 100 yards. Bullet was the Hornady SST at 180 grain(RED Tip) 31 grains W748
with F210 primer and Win brass. I use millimeters for the COL because it is easier..IMHO..Of course, work up. This load was safe in my NEF.

Big Blue · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:57:21 AM »

snowbound,
That sure would be appreciated. Save a lot of time, bullets, and powder. As long as you don't take all of the fun out of it.

Don

snowbound · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2004, 02:00:16 AM »

The NEF 30-30 can be one of the most fun to shoot and accurate rifles in your inventory. The most accurate load I have found (FACTORY) is the Winchester brand in 150 or 170. The 170 Silvertip was the most accurate of all factory ammo tested..It is capable of one hole groups. Remington factory loads did not shoot good in my rifle. For handloads using standard 30-30 bullets, Hornady, Speer, Winchester in 150 or 170 the accuracy was very good. All standard 30-30 bullets were set COL at 64 mm and very accurate. But, the data below is for different bullets using Spire tip or non-standard bullets not normally loaded in the 30-30, unless of course you are shooting a single shot . All the following loads were worked up using W748 powder, CCI 200 primers and WW brass. All 150 grain bullets were loaded with 32 grains. The 165 with 31 grains and the 180s with 30 grains.....These loads were safe in my rifle. Work them up in yours. All shooting done at 100 yards.

150 RP BRONZE TIP COL 68MM 1.5 inch group
150 RP COR-LOK 69MM 2.0
150 HORNADY BTSP 68MM 1.0
150 CT-BST 70MM 1.5
165 HORNADY BTSP 68MM 1.0
180 HORNADY SST 70MM 1.0
180 NOSLER BT 68MM 1.5

I am old and shaky now, and I am sure that most of you can work these loads up and do a lot better than I..they shot good in my rifle

snowbound · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2004, 03:24:38 AM »

By the way----all 30-30 loads were crimped using the Lee FCD, including the bullets with no cannalure.........

mag41vance · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2004, 08:32:32 AM »

This comes from IMR Data on 14" TC Contender.
Rem Case
Fed 210 BR PR
150 gr Sierra Spitzer
IMR 3031 33gr
IMR 4064 34.4 gr

Both loads are hot according to Sierra data.

I tested the 34.4 with a 150 gr FMJ and it perform quite well.
5 shots, .71 inches @ 50 yards. It did show slight pressure on the primer, and it made my dad, who was in the basement soil his favorite pair of overalls. :wink:
RV