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Author Topic: 45/70 "Trapdoor"  (Read 873 times)

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Offline TopperT

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« on: April 16, 2004, 01:27:32 AM »
I just purchased an H&R 45/70 "Trapdoor" calvary model and it should arrive next week.  :lol:  Before it gets here I'm going to load up some rounds so that I can get right to the fun.  
My question is, I have read that the original load for the "Trapdoor" calvary rifle was 55 grains of Black Powder.
Is this correct? and have any of you shoot this load?  I would appreciate any other suggestions you may have for the "Trapdoor".
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Offline Will Bison

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2004, 04:50:32 AM »
You are correct. The original Cav load was .45-55-405. I loaded some up to see how accurate my Buffington rear sight graduations were. Pretty darn close.

Very comfortable to shoot obviously and of course it is a bit more economical.
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Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: 45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2004, 07:19:46 AM »
TopperT

I have two of the H&Rs; an Officers Model and an LBH carbine.  I have put original M1879 rear sights on both and have taken the tang sight offf the LBH (what was H&R thinking about with a tang sight on a LBH carbine?).  I also have replaced both breech blocks with originals (requires fitting) as both of my H&Rs had trouble with the set screw not holding the cam shaft.  Make sure you keep your set screw tight, some H&Rs have the problem and some don't.

Anyways if you shoot straight BP 55 gr of Goex cartridge will work fine.  I prefer a duplex load with the H&R .458 barrels as I can shoot all day without having to clean fouling out.  The Lee 459-405-HB or Lymans 457124 are very good bullets to duplicate the M1873 bullet with in these loads.  If you don't have it you might want to get Spence Wolfe's book on reloading for the TDs.  The H&Rs are a little different because of the .458 barrels but Wolfe's loads shoot very well in them.

Larry Gibson
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Offline Ray Newman

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2004, 08:07:42 AM »
Will Bison: what type of wad material (or filler) did you utilize to fill up the space between the base of the bullet & the powder column?

IIRC, the US Govt. armouries utilized "paste board” wads.
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Offline Will Bison

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2004, 10:15:12 AM »
Forgot to mention I use a little bit of Cream of Wheat to take up the extra space.

You have me curious now, I wonder what the original rounds used? I'll have to grab one from my cartridge collection and pull the bullet.

There are other things that will work but the Cream of Wheat is cheap and easy to come by.
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Offline Ray Newman

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2004, 01:52:49 PM »
Will Bison:I did some quick research in my limited library.

Fracsa & Hill, "The .45-70 Springfield" (1980), claim that Frankford Arsenal carbine rounds  had "paste board" wads to take up the excess space  (p. 235).

They further state that in 1886, the use of wads was dropped & the bullet was seated deeper to take up the space formerly occupied by the wads (p.236)

Waite & Ernst, "Trapdoor Springfield" (1980) state the same information & give the same dates (pp 159 & 168).

Your guess is as good as mine as the composition, dia., & thickness of these "pasteboard" wads....
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Offline Will Bison

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2004, 05:33:43 PM »
The paste board makes sense as I have seen it in other BP carts.

I suppose with the proper size punch one could do the same today and possibly impregnate them with some lubricant.

I use the standard military 405 grain bullet out of an old Lyman mould and it seems to carry enough lube to do the job. I generally load those on top of about 65-66 grs of 3f.

I also tried putting a fairly heavy paper wad (about .022) over the powder then a beeswax cookie about .040 thick. That cut my powder back to around 60 grs + -. They shot about the same as my regular loads so I assume that the bullet alone carries enough lube to get the job done.

By the way I use plain old beeswax and pan lube them right out of the mould at about .459 dia.
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Offline Florida Jim

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2004, 11:20:06 AM »
I also have an H&R Trapdoor carbine. I load 55gr's of Goex CTG. with a lyman 457124 cast at 458. Lubed with SPG, a Federal 215 primer. I ues a .060 fibre wad, powder compressed enough to seat the bullet at the first groove. I crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. This is a fairly mild load and shoots just under 2" at 100yds.
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Offline TopperT

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45/70 "Trapdoor"
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2004, 12:41:12 PM »
Thanks to all of you.  This modern age with "internet" sure beats the hell out of the 'trial & error' of old.  Again thanks.
For what its worth I've also got the 38-55 Target and 45-70 Buff Classic 8) .
H&R may not be the most desirable firearms :shock:  BUT for the $$$ invested its/they, are the best return on investment I've made.
Again thank you for the information. :grin:
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