Author Topic: Randy,Give Me your Opinion ? (Read 764 times)

Trail Bum · « **on:** April 21, 2004, 04:50:11 PM »

I met a interesting character tonight, at my local Gander Mountain. After conversing with him for several minutes, he tells me, that he is BIG TIME into Muzzle Loading.

He told me , Quote, "I took my Buck , last year, with CUSTOM Gonic .50, at a Laser Verified 327 YARDS

Now im close to a city, but im of the mind, that this guy Guy is piss$#, on my Leg, and trying to tell me that it is raining!

I questioned him further on the subject,and he told me that he uses a Winchester Bullet,ahead of 115 Grains of Triple 7. He did not state what the Grain Weight was !

Now Being somewhat new to ML,i can believe that a Shot can be Lobed That Far, But can it be done, on a First shot Basis.

He claim's, to have a Unerterl 18 adorning the top,and a Drop Chart Taped to his Stock.

He did invite me, to come to his Range some Weekend,which, i would be more than Happy to do,just to see his Prowess,or so he claims. Is this Luck, or can a ML , be Dialed in, to shoot this Yardage?? Many Thank's on your opinion!

On a side note, What is the farthest you have reliable references, as to confirmed Kills with a ML, is this Guy the Bomb or WHAT? (If Exlax is Optional) ?

contendernut · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2004, 06:25:55 PM »

I'd say its possible. Stupid but possible. If it is accurate enough, which it certainly could be, it should have enough energy to kill a deer. That said, considering the time of flight, it isn't a smart shot too me. He could have easily missed or gut/ass end shot the deer.

The "long range gun" deal has kind of hit a sore spot with me though, so take it for what its worth.

The last time I was in the gun shop, somebody was buying a heavy barrel rifle in one of the mag cartridges. Had him a big scope on it and wanted two boxes of ammo. Said it was enough to sight in and hunt next season. Said he had a 750 yd gun there for the delta.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2004, 07:18:21 PM »

Quote

I met a interesting character tonight, at my local Gander Mountain.

Apparently, you did. :wink:

It really matters very, very little to most hunters I know-- as center-fire, ML, etc., the vast majority of deer are taken inside 100 yards, inside 50 in many areas. When I was growing up, you really couldn't see much past 50 - 60 yards in the areas I was hunting, perhaps 80 - 90 yards with snow on the ground.

Sure, it is possible. There are plenty of recent "confirmed kills" past 350 yards or so on deer and hogs with muzzleloaders. Ian McMurchy, Greg Ritz, etc. Ethical is always left up to the individual's best judgement and experience. 350 yards with a muzzleloader is well past my confidence zone, and there is no glory in the possibility of sending a gut-shot animal off to die an excruciating, elongated death that I can see.

Personally, I think closer is always better-- and, I've never pulled the trigger on any big game animal past 300 yards. I was actually a bit pleased with myself with an instant "one-shot one kill" at 42 laser verified yards tonight with a 20 mph direct crosswind. It was a rabbit, off-hand, using a Beeman R-9 with a Crosman Premier pellet.

Brags are where you find them-- I suppose Gander Mountain is as good a place as any for them, as there is no cover charge. :|

TCAS · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:03:55 AM »

Check out the link below, You will find numerous muzzle loaders capable of a 350 yard kill on deer as they practice at 800, 900 and 1000 yards....target size 24 inches and by the way this was about 140+ years ago.

Tom

http://www.lrml.org/intro.htm

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:13:40 AM »

Think there was just a tiny bit of holdover involved? :roll:

Wolfhound · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:27:43 AM »

Hey! Them trad guns have too much advantage. They don't belong in the Ml season! My modern inline won't shoot that far! :evil:

Lol, just kidding.

AndyHass · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:43:36 AM »

He could be very practiced or he could be just lucky. A ML can certainly be tuned to take game that far. My pet load (195gr Duplex DC, 100gr FFg 777) is only about 20-22 inches below my 200 yd zero at that range. If I saw a good deer that was completely oblivious to my presence and I had a nice prone, supported position, AND I had worked my gun out well past that range in practice, I'd probably take it knowing my bullet can do the job at that range.
Your first indication might be where he got that drop chart. If he crafted it himself from hours on the range testing his gun, he's for real. If he printed it off a ballistics program on the internet or from manufacturer's info, he's bogus.
Time of flight isn't really an issue as I see it, unless the deer is very nervous and could spook at the smoke/flash. Bowhunters have it worse with every shot they take. Deer, being reactive targets, can spook at any moment and for no apparent reason. I had one turn 90 degrees on me last season at only 70 yards, fortunately it worked out. There was no reason for her to spook, and even a 300 Lapua Magnum wouldn't have gotten there in time.

sabotloader · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2004, 09:03:13 AM »

AndyHass, I think you just brought up a very important point, that no-one, or at least a very few people seem to think about. "TIME IN FLIGHT" - I guess, I maybe put more important on this factor than I may need to. For those longer range shots that people are talking about at a game animal, I would think that "time in flight" would be a major concern. Target Shooting, who cares and who cares about velocity. I haven't seen a lot of animals remain perfectly still and posing for the shooter. Under 75 yards it might not be that big of a deal and you can lob those big heavy slugs in there, but my personal preference I want to be abe to take anything from 150 yards on down by getting on the target and getting the shot off, when the shot opportunity presents itself. One step can make the difference. So I guess I will continue to use those 250 to 300 grain bullets vs the 400 to 500 grain bullets.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2004, 01:38:20 PM »

:bye: :bye: :bye:

It is wind drift that is largely ignored. Assume a 260 gr. projectile, G1 BC of .200 (far higher than an XTP), MV of 2000 fps - - you have 32.77 " of drift, assuming just a 10 mph cross at 325 yards. That's also right at 700 fpe @ 325 yards, not particularly generous.

Bob_K · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2004, 02:16:01 PM »

I remember my first time shooting Service Rifle at 600 yards (open sights only). After a (very) little bit of instruction I was amazed how well I was able to connect with the ten ring from that distance. (The secret, of course, is that you only have to see as far as the front sight.) Granted, I was shooting modern cartridges (.308), with smokeless powder, out of a fairly modern rifle (Garand), but it really underscored "sight alignment and trigger control." Of course there is a difference of what I would try against a paper target vs. a big game animal, but it sure impressed me nevertheless. I would not under estimate the capability of a modern muzzleloader. The wisdom of taking the shot is another matter. Your interesting acquaintance may well have connected as he said.