Rats

[SoCal hunter]

I need a airgun that will take out rats at 20yards. I'm thinking of a crosman pump because there cheap and should get the job done. I don't care if half thegun is plastic,as long as it will get rid of these pest. What should I get?

[Lawdog]

SoCal hunter,

Just make sure the Crosman you get has rifling in the barrel.  Example is their famous M760 doesn't have a rifled barrel.  Remember that you are going to get what you pay for.  Those Crosman pumps don’t really hold up well.  They are designed to be used by kids.  I believe you would be much happier with a low cost adult air rifle.  They can be had from say $75.00 up.  You can get a TechForce 97 for under $80.00 that will shoot a .177 caliber pellet at 900 Fps. or a .22 caliber pellet at 750 fps..  This will take out any rat you want at distances grater than 20 yards.  I have a TechForce 99M in .22 caliber and it is a very good.  Accurate and powerful.  Go to http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Tech%20Force%20Air%20Guns&secondgroup=Air%20Rifles and check them out for yourself.  Don’t count where they are made as these are quality air rifles and are worth the money.  Lawdog
 

[SoCal hunter]

I was thinking of maybe a pistol or c02 powered gun.

[Lawdog]

SoCal hunter,

The pistols I would choose would be a pump like the Crosman 1377 or the Sheridan.  I have killed many pack rats with my scoped Crosman 1377’s using Crow Magnum pellets.  I do use a Beeman P-1 in .20 caliber for hunting but it stays in the house between hunts.  I keep a 1377 in my barn and another in my work shop just for pests.  I don’t like CO2 rifles due to the fact that they are notorious for leaking air from the cartridges.  Just when you need the rifle to dispatch some pest the cartridge is empty or nearly so.  I hunt with PCP rifles but keep pumps or springers handy for pests around the place.  Small groups to you.  Lawdog
 

[SoCal hunter]

Thanks Lawdog,
I bought the Crosman 1377 .177 at Big 5 and I'm very pleased with it. I'm using crosman pointed pellets and it seems to be quite accurate within 15 yards. I haven't shot anything with it yet but soon I will test it out on some rats.  I need to get the mounts for it,so I can put a scope on it,the sights are good, but I need a scope. Thanks for the help!

[Lawdog]

SoCal hunter,

You are welcome.  For best accuracy you should try a pellet variety pack.  A good sampling of different makes and types of pellets will show some surprising results.  There are two different mounts you can get for the 1377 but the one you will want is the model 459 MT from Crosman.  These are the ones I use and have never had a problem.  Lawdog
 

[dave]

If you're going to scope the 1377, theres a couple options. One, use one of the two available from Crosman. The 459 is used by some, but it just clamps to the barrel, and can be easily bumped sideways. the 457 mount is the preferred choice for the 1377. It has extensions on the legs to sit on the lower tube for stability. Heres a side by side of the two

http://www.airgunstore.com/ACCESS/OPTICS/CRS-OPT.HTM

Second option: Get an after market breech. The 1377 comes with a cheap plastic breech (in case you haven't noticed alredy). There are I think four types now that are popular. Crookedbarn, CO2une, Cutters, and DAQ all have them. the first 2 are aluminum, the others are steel. All have rails, and the guy who makes the Cutters breech also has a number of steel replacement bits such as barrel bands, accessory rails, etc for the Crosman guns.

[Lawdog]

dave,

Have you ever tried the 457MT mount from Crosman?  I did and what a thin, flimsy mount it is.  Wouldn’t stay tight to the barrel or cylinder no matter what I tried( it actually bent trying to get it to stay put).  The 459MT stays tight on the barrel without slipping.

I had one of my 1377’s redone by Jim Giles but I didn’t think SoCalHunter wanted to spend quite that much.  Mine has a 14” barrel(14" barrel is $30.00), the Ultimate Breech(another $36.00) and the Ultimate Bolt($14.00).  Along with new seals and such it brings the price, not including the original cost of the 1377, to over $120.00.  But it does make for one sweet shooting pest remover.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[dave]

Yes, actually I have used them, with no problems. The 457 mounts I have are neither thin nor flimsy, no more so than the 459s, which are thinner than the 457s at their center I might add.




 I have a set on my Crosman 1300. They sit nice and tight on both the barrel and tube, no movement at all. I've also used them on a 2289 and a 2240.





The 459s however have no way of staying in position, since they only clamp to the barrel and don't make contact with the tube. Note the gap between the tube and the mount, making it fairly easy to bump it sideways. (I used a piece of white paper on the tube to make it easier to see where the problem lies.)



This is why a lot of guys don't like the 459s. They can be very unstable. The 459s do however work well on the older guns like the 105/6, 111/2, and 115/6 pistols that don't have a spacer between the barrel and tube. The barrel sits right on the tube. This difference in height allows the 459 mounts to make contact with the tube, making for a solid mount.

459 mount on Crosman 106 pistol


As for building a 1377 up, it's not neccessary to spend that much money. Just installing a new breech and seal will improve things quite a bit. The 14" barrel(part# 2289-001) is only about $8 from Crosman, and the barrel support from the 2289 (part# 788B011) needed to use it on the 1377 is only about a dollar. The bolt is a cosmetic piece only, doesn't offer any real performance increase when used on the Crosman pneumatic guns.

[Lawdog]

dave,

Tell Jim Giles that his barrels, which are much heavier and of better steel with button cut rifling, are more than what Crosman charges for their greatly inferior barrels.  The Ultimate Breech(with it’s built in scope mounts) and Bolt were required due to the 1377 I had him do is one of the Classic’s I got in 1991(from Wally World) that had a sliding breech cover(just like on your 1300 and that I didn't care for anyway) not the bolt you get now.  The new seals, valves, check valves, etc., are hand made from Teflon, brass and are not available from Crosman.  If you are going to have a custom job done on any rifle or pistol, be it air or gun powder propelled, you might as well do it right the first time.  My custom 1377 will exceed 680 fps. using Crow Magnum pellets with maximum charge of ten pumps.

As far as the 457MT mount that I had(I threw it in the recycle bin when it bent) it bent right where it makes the turn outward for the cylinder under the barrel.  I have never had a problem with the 459MT mount and neither has anyone one else that has one on their 1377’s(1322’s).  I am glad yours worked for you, mine didn’t.  I can’t recommend anything that didn’t work for me.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[Gabe]

If you don't want to pay a whole lot of money, then I suppose tech force would be okay.  Personally I think that they are garbage.  The cheap pump Crosman guns are just that...cheap, but again, they would do the job, but as other people said, make sure it is NOT smooth bore.  As for the pistol, well, they are all neat and nastalgic, but for all intents and purposes, forget a pistol when you actually are trying to hit something for a reason.  Unless the rat says, "okay, go ahead and sit down or get in a prone position so your hands will be steady enough to hit me at twenty yards", don't bother with the pistol.  I have fourteen airguns, ranging from junk, to rather expensive.  My favorite by far though is my BSA supersport.  Extremely accurate with the given sights and it isn't too expensive.  About $200 depending on where you get it, but well worth it...

[dave]

Thats unheard of. Did you actually test the gun, are are those numbers a guesstimate? Every 14" 1377 from Crookedbarn (and many heavily modified ones that didn't)  that I have seen tested came in around 580- 590 fps with 7.9gr pellets. The heavier 8.8gr CM pellets would be a bit slower.
I never said that the Crosman barrels were better, just that they are a cheaper alternative that lots of airgun home builders use. They aren't that bad really. Usually a recrown job is all thats needed to get some real decent accuracy from one.
Crosman does make teflon seals, and has for a couple years now. They are in most of the newer 1377 and 2289 guns, and come in replacement 1377 valve assemblies.
Is it possible that the 457 mount you had was defective? I've never heard of one bending like that, theres no reason for it to bend unless theres something wrong with it. It just sits on the tube, no down or side pressure involved. As to the 459 mounts, I think if you ask around and talk to some of the more well-known Crosman builders and tuners, you'll see who uses what and why they don't use the 459s.

[panman]

Pass the popcorn please![This is getting GOOD!].pan.

[Deaf Smith]

Right now Crooked barn is selling Crosman 1" SSP pistol scopes for $25 plus 3 shipping. Not a bad deal for a 1" pistol scope and shoule work great on a 2250 or a 1377. If you really want an accurate 1377 pick up a 1399 shoulder stock it goes right on the gun just remove the grips this makes you a sweet carbine and gives you more stability for better accuracy.
Also if you buy a 2250 airrifle you can put pistol grips(2240 and 1377 grips work just fine and make a nice powerful 22 caliber pistol which will handle rats easily.

[Lawdog]

dave,

Is it possible that the 457 mount you had was defective?

No.  If the 457 mount is so much better than the 459 MT then please tell me why Crosmen dropped the 457 from their line?  Go to the Crosman Online Store at http://www.crosman.com/portal/crosmanhome.nsf/storecontent?openframeset and see if Crosman is still selling the 457.

Did you actually test the gun, are are those numbers a guesstimate?

Yes I did and the figure I quoted was an average of ten strings of ten shots over my chronograph.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog