Author Topic: 'Improving a Handi' (Read 1282 times)

safetysheriff · « **on:** April 29, 2004, 06:13:59 AM »

Here are some ballistics taken from Remington and some taken from the Lee "Shooter" program:

.280 Remington factory load: 140 gr PSP Core-Lokt, 1 1/2" scope height, 3000fps muzzle velocity. At 300 yds: 2309 fps velocity, with 1657 foot lbs. of energy. Zeroed at 200 yds this bullet was 1.5" above line of sight at 100 yds and 7" below line of sight at 300 yds.

Note the scope height, and the factory bullets ballistic coefficient given as 0.39

.280 Remington handload: 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, 2" scope height, 3000fps muzzle velocity. At 300 yds: 2419 fps velocity with 1820 foot lbs. of energy. Zeroed at 250 yds this bullet was 2.16" above line of sight at 100 yds and 3.25" below line of sight at 300 yds.

Note the scope height, and the Nosler's ballictic coefficient given as 0.485.

The difference of 1/2" scope height, 0.66" higher sight in at 100 yds (to get a 250 yd' zero), and the Nosler ballistic coefficient give us approx' 160 ft/lbs more energy and a 3.75" higher trajectory at 300 yds.

I for one can easily live with the 1/2" higher scope on a thick-breeched Handi, and with the extra .66" sight in at 100 yds. I can easily live with the 10 percent improvement in energy at 300 yds! Even more importantly, I greatly like having a center hold on a deer's lungs being good for a harvest to a distance of approximately 315 yds.....whereas the factory sight in/load was Maybe good for 270 yds.

How much further do you really want to shoot? How much more 'Improving' do you really need?

Take care.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2004, 06:37:58 AM »

Safety Sherrif ; You may be a little conservetive with the 3000 fps handloads with the 140 gr. B.T.s. I chronoed some Rem. corelocts and the 150's went 2934 3 shot avg. in the 26" barrel . Digger

safetysheriff · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2004, 07:17:03 AM »

Dd'

Yep', I believe you are right. :wink: But since I needed a fair comparison I used velocity as my constant and went with the Remington catalog's information.

As you say......handloads out of a 26" Handi' will probably do more. I know I would expect mine to......

I only want to illustrate that there is more to this hobby than readily meets the eye. And many of us do not think/know about the alternatives before considering 'Improving'. As simple as the Handi's are, a bolt-gun is a much better way to go for this kind of re-chambering. The problem is, the Handi's are such a bargain for all that you get out of them!!! (Some of these guys get so Hooked on 'em that they just can't see any other way! :eek: )

What kind of game do you pursue with that rifle of yours? (I like the .223 for varmints on up through short-range whitetails, and the .30-06 for most anything else above that. )

Take care,

SS'

Mac11700 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2004, 08:32:53 AM »

SS:

It's funny really......people always do the darndest things...everyone is different ..and as a result...everyone looks at things differently...some want the absolute max velocity...others want the most accurate groups......heck...some don't even care about anything as long as it goes bang and the critter falls down dead.

to each and everyone that is ok...just because it is the way of things...

Is all of this "improving really needed?"...probably not..to some atleast...but others have a different outlook on it.While some here can get outstanding groups with factory loads...and others get outstanding groups with hanloads...others don't always get what they are looking for.Some never will...some will always be searching for something... and trying to convince someone not to do something that you feel isn't needed..doesn't really work...especialy if that individual feels the need to be different...

That's the beauty of it..someone will always try something different somewhere...the crux of all of this "why climb that mountain...or" why jump out of a pefectly good airplane?" Because everyone is different and may not always think like you and me...

PS:...that 280 data looks mighty good the way it is to me...but I'm sure someone else might want to...as Emeral would say " Bamm...lets kick it up a notch"

Mac

safetysheriff · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2004, 09:07:22 AM »

Mac'

As always, good to hear from you.

Yeah' I understand the need to modify and massage the iron; and I understand that some of it is very good. And I darn sure wouldn't want everybody to be just like me! (My wife couldn't take it...) I'm just thinking out loud about some of the options, and actually toned it down some before posting.....because I know there was a time when I liked getting more out "something". (It was 600 horsepower out of a 327 Chevy, or much more out of a 427 Ford!)

I found the early-on suggestion in the other posting -- regarding the use of a false shoulder -- to be a very valid idea. It's one that I would consider if Improving a Handi'. Then I got the more esoteric idea to re-do the rifle by means of a little geometry, which someone else found prohibitive by nature of its cost. (I agree, but some of us don't seem to care what the cost -- at least as I understand them. They have money and will put it into a single-shot sooner than they would anything else!)

Like you said, "everyone is different." I just don't think the put-downs are necessary; and I know that I can further 'think outside the box' than most would imagine. That's why supposedly bumblebees can't fly, but He makes them to laugh at our misunderstanding. God Himself thinks outside the box, as it were!

Take care, Mac.

SS'

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2004, 10:55:09 AM »

Safety Sherriff; I mostly hunt hogs and whitetails with the larger rifles, coyotes crows and any kind varmit with my 223 and my 220 Swift. I carry the Handis when I out goofing of, but when I get serious I grab the Ruger varmit rifle, or the Vangaurd's . I also have a 444 Marlin that shoot less than a 1" group that I use in heavy brush. The same with my handguns, the ruger superblackhawk goes when I playing, but the contender in 357 Herret does the serious stuff. My Ultra now has 3 barrels to reside behind the seat of the hunting truck, 223 for little things,280 for longer bigger animals, and the 45 70 for the bigger stuff in the brush. Digger

safetysheriff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2004, 11:14:47 AM »

Dd'

I see Wal Mart selling the blued model of Vanguard for under $400. I'm debating that one......because with all those frivolous lawsuits you just gotta' know that the mfr's need some help! (do you think momma' will fall for that one?).

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2004, 11:16:16 AM »

SS:

I know what you mean in reference to the" little lady"...and agree with you on anyone putting anyone down here...your idea is a valid one that has been discussed in a bunch of places and forums,and there's no need for anyone to get riled up over a friendly debate...as the old saying goes.."there's more than one way to skin a cat".

Cost is one of those relavent things...but it too is different for most.Some may think is is penny wise and dollar foolish to make any changes to these inexpensive rifles of ours...while just around the block....someone may deceide it is only natural to drop a few extra hundred on a project with them... ..

I'm sort of guilty in that regaurds...figuring what I spent on my Survivor only to swap out the stock to a factory laminated one...add the steel forearm spacer and trigger gaurd to it...I could of easily had a Weatherby,Winchester,Ruger,or Savage for the cost...would I've been happy in doing that?

The answer is quite simple....NO... I wouldn't have...everything for a reason...my lovely wife says...and had I choosen to go that route...I wouldn't have been searching for the NEF site and wouldn't have joined and subsuquently moved here when that forum closed..and wouldn't have been talking all this good stuff with everyone here on the Handi's. :-D

Anyway...I'm well pleased with mine..and I do love the debating all that goes with it...and hopfully I didn't ruffle anyones feathers along the way.I always enjoy our conversations on these great little rifles...I always seem to learn more and more about them everyday.

Mac

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2004, 01:42:51 PM »

Safety Sherriff; The Vangaurd's have a test target that comes with the gun. Have them bring the target from the box, check the no's. and make sure its the right target. Thery're garranteed to shoot 1 1/2" . I have 2, one in 30 06 and 300 Wby. The 06 shoots .310 with 150 gr. B.T.s and 58 grs. of IMR 4350, and the 300 shoots 180 gr. B.T.'s at .670" and 3170 fps. I saw 1 270 target that was about 1/4 " and it took every thing I had to walk away from it.