Author Topic: 45-70 vrs .06 thru .375 H&H?? (Read 1131 times)

jaycocreek · « **on:** May 07, 2004, 03:46:54 AM »

Everyone thinks of the 45-70 as the slow old cartridge that throws big ole bullets down range to knock over Elk-Moose and Bear and bullet construction should be of no concern.But the fact is the Modern 45-70 loaded to it's capabuility is as good as the other so called Elk Rifles if a quality bullet is used.Here is some comaprisons useing Hodgdon #27 and #26 maximum loads,not factory loads,max loads against the 45-70 with a 300 grain Nosler all with a 24 inch barrel except when noted.

30-06 200 gr-----2577fps@ 49,400CUP--45-70 300 Nosler--2500 fps-41,000 PSI
30-06 220 gr--2459fps@48,600CUP-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps
30-06 250 gr--2237fps@40,600CUP-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps
No comparison and the 06 is a heck of an all around rifle.
300H&H mag 250 gr-2616fps-- 45-70 300 gr-2500 fps

308 Norma Mag(26")250 gr-2501 fps@53,500CUP-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps

.338-06-275 gr-2348 fps-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps

338 Win Mag 300 gr-2447@51,500CUP-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps

35 Whelen 300 gr-2251 fps@49.500CUP-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps

375 H&H 300 gr-2645 fps@49.500-45-70 300 gr-2500 fps.

300 Weatherby(26") 250 gr-2571 fps@54,000 CUP-45-70(24 in) 300 gr-2500 fps

As you can see the 45-70 with the 300 Nosler is right in the ball park and better than some with a 24 inch barrel.Now if we went to the 26 inch CB you could add anothe 50+ FPS to the 45-70 and there all under the 43,500 PSI.Would you use inexpensive bullets in these other calibers for Elk Moose and Bear?I sure wouldn't.There at there best with premium bullets and the 45-70 should be the same.

Just my opinon.Jayco.

James B · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2004, 04:51:45 PM »

This just further demonstrates the versitility of the old 45-70. It will do the job with a lighter premium bullet fired pretty fast or a good LBT style lead bullet. That is with the wide flat point at velocity of 1400- 1800 fps will shoot through two cape buffalo. Or just about any other creature that roams this planet. The wide Flat point creates a wound channel thats about next to nothing else. Long live the trusty old girl.

jackfish · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2004, 06:07:55 PM »

There is no published load for the Marlin 1895 45-70 that achieves 2500 fps in a 24" barrel with the 300 grain Nosler. Your premise is flawed from the get go.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2004, 08:18:08 PM »

Jackfish.
well i think you are right about the 2500 fps, But i do get 2200 fps with two
of my 45-70s one is the cow boy the other is my ruger # 1.. Now the 1895
guide gun will only do just over 2000, but thats by loading max. But jaycocreek has a point when he says what he does about the killing power of the old 45-70 theres nothing on the north american cont. that can stand up to the knock down power of it. What i like most about them is you don't waste any meat and thats what i'm going for. My old 1886 does a good job on deer if its not far away,,,,, like under 100 yds, Not a long range gun,, you catchum you pokeum. You all have a good day.
And keep your powder dry.........Joe................

jackfish · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2004, 03:44:51 AM »

It is also obvious that the 45-70 does not have to be loaded to 4164 fpe to take any North American game animal. Proper load with an adequate bullet, proper shot placement and within effective range equals a quick, clean kill with the 45-70.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2004, 07:34:33 AM »

Jackfish:

Have you loaded up the 300 grain Nosler in a 45-70 Ruger #1 or #3 to it's potential? Gowd...I bet that one would definatly rattle your teeth a-while.especially if you just used the Sierra bullet data.....I certainly wouldn't try loading it to the max in anything else...my load for my Marlin was on the warm side and I haven't taken it up anymore...accuracy is where I wanted and the results on the deer was fantastic...I'm going to get a Buff Classic barrel in 45-70 for my NEF and see just how much can be gained from the longer barrel with it...of course I'll be adding a-lot of lead to the stock to make it more managable and a triple Magnum Decelaorator pad is going to be added too...and if I don't gain a-lot I'll have the barrel cut back and recrowned...hopefully before hunting season.....

Mac

jaycocreek · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:59:05 AM »

In a 24 inch test barrel Rick Jaimeson loaded the Nosler up to 2488 FPS and only 40,600 PSI in the 450 Marlin.Now we all know the 45-70 can be loaded as hot as the 450 Marlin and as for the 12 fps from 2488 to 2500 fps,there is almost 3,000 PSI to reach it.Now if we put that load in a 26 inch CB,well, it would be more still.
Not many people see or think of the 45-70/450 Marlin in a 24 or 26 inch barrel and the velocity it can achieve.Rick showed that with the Nosler and over 4100 Ft. lbs of energy. Not bad for the old war horse and it's new off spring, the 450 Marlin.

Jayco.

jackfish · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2004, 01:48:46 PM »

Where is the published Marlin 1895 45-70 load that supports 2500 fps with a 300 grain Nosler?

jaycocreek · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2004, 03:05:04 AM »

While I was just trying to point out the velocity the 450/45-70 can achieve in a 24-26 inch barrel for comparison to some tried and proven Elk cartridges,I guess I should have said the 450 Marlin not the 45-70 even tho anything you can load in the 450 you can load in the 45-70.So for some,lets call it the 450 Marlin and the Load data is published in Shooting Times July 2000. with a test barrel.

300 Nosler Partition
2488 FPS
Hornady Brass
24 inch barrel
40,600 PSI.

Well under the SAAMI of 43,500 PSI. I just thought there would be some that found the velocity of the 300 Nosler in the longer barrels interesting.I did.And compared to other proven Elk calibers, it 's right up there in the longer barrels.

Best of luck.Jayco.

jackfish · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2004, 08:58:21 AM »

While, the 450 Marlin and potentially the 45-70 are "right up there" with 4100+ muzzle fpe using a 300 grain Nosler, down range performance really suffers once your shots reach past 150 yards. Velocity and energy for the 450/45-70 are down at 200 yards to 1720 fps and 1971 fpe respectively. Just compare that to a 30-06 with a 200 grain bullet of 2249 fps and 2245 fpe. Or the 300 Win Mag with a 200 grain bullet of 2509 fps and 2796 fpe. Or the .338 Win Mag with a 250 grain bullet of 2318 fps and 2982 fpe. Or the .375 H&H with a 270 grain bullet of 2353 fps and 3318. So, especially considering the higher sectional densities of the other rounds, the 450/45-70 doesn't do so well once one sends it downrange very far.