Author Topic: Silhouette Weapon Confusion (Read 1400 times)

bogey · « **on:** May 10, 2004, 05:20:03 AM »

Got out to shoot smallbore and air silhouette. Great fun;now the dilemma is what to buy. I was impressed with the Sako and CZ in .22. Is it worth the difference for Sako.

Air rifle was great fun and you can apparently practice in your house or yard. Where do you start? Top of the line or beginner gun. Would like to do both but funds are limited and this stuff ain't cheap.

Will appreciate your thoughts.

ajj · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2004, 07:11:33 AM »

I shot the Sako Finnfire, essentially umodified, for four seasons before going to Anschutz 1712. I've played with 2 CZ's and talked to several people who shoot them. If it were me, knowing what I (think) I know now, I'd start with the CZ if I couldn't justify springing for the Anschutz. The Shay Zed is one of the rare "good things" at a reasonable price. And when you're ready to move up there's no point going halfway.
On the airgun, I don't know anything about what is required/suitable for actually shooting airgun silhouette. I bought a 10 meter target air rifle several years ago strictly as a practice gun and followed the recommendations of those who warned against low level equipment. What I mean to say is that I spent about $1000. I don't regret it and the gun has probably held value well but perhaps a real silhouette gun will be a little less expensive and still serve for daily practice. Check out the pieces on "Practice with Airgun" at Zediker.com. He has the same warnings about what you must spend. These days, purely for practice, you'd probably want a nice single stroke pneumatic. They're only about $1700!!! I trust we'll both learn something from more knowledgeable people, but airgun practice is definitely the way to go.

davei · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2004, 07:48:19 AM »

okay... so perhaps i am being a bit sensitive but...

we might want to refrain from referring to our equipment as "weapons." we have enough trouble as it is without creating negative images with the public. i cringe everytime we have a match director say "bring your weapons to the line" when there are non-shooters watching the match. we really aren't attempting to kill anything and all of us hope that our little pigs are willing to stand up there and get shot at again.

i know... i'm a pain in the ass... just something i think we all need to be cognizant of in our daily affairs. after firearm safety, public perception is extremely important.
dave

and yes... the cz is a nice rifle but the sako is more than worth the extra dollars. add a lilja barrel (still less than an anschutz) and it is a top piece of equipment.

bogey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2004, 08:29:38 AM »

Thanks for the input;however, speaking for myself the terms firearm, rifle, pistol and gun are all basically the moral/cultural/legal equivalent of weapon and I never felt a need to be bashful about it. If it is not illegal, so be it. I do have a problem with the illegal use of anything described by all of the aforementioned terms.

To quote Ted Nugent, if guns cause violence, mine are all defective. Since the original question involves a decision of pellet gun or .22 smallbore for shooting steel ( it's legal ) and proper selection, I can't see reason for offense by anyone other than PETA or the anti gun wing, neither of which I worry about. The same would apply to a .308 for silhouette shooting (gonna stick with that term also).

To make another point, we're not talking about prostitution, theft, lying under oath while holding the oval office... This is in reference to reduced scale silhouettes with reduced scale instruments (sounds a bit silly). An additional point, good thing we have the term silhouette to keep PETA at bay. We really wouldn't want to use terms like ram, pig, turkey or chicken.

ajj · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2004, 08:43:32 AM »

I can see both sides of this one but Dave does make a good point that I was taught as a child (in the Boy Scouts.) A "weapon" is an instrument of combat. A firearm used as a piece of sporting equipment, including for hunting, is not, in fact, a weapon. A golf club can be used as a weapon and, come to think of it, is probably much more likely to be so used than the average silhouette rifle. But to refer to either as a weapon when it is being used for sport is simply wrong. I vote for accuracy.

eroyd · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2004, 09:01:01 AM »

I upgraded from the CZ to the Sako just recently. I have realized a very slight improvement in score but not much. Doesn't this go for pretty much anything, that you get to a point where you pay a lot more for a little better. The CZ's are at that "point". When you start losing upper level matches by one hit, it may be time to go beyond this point.

I believe the Sako's have a match or semi-match chamber which apparently makes a diff. I wonder what could be done to a CZ chamber? My experience is that the CZ triggers can be made to be almost or as nice as the new Sako's. What like about the Sako is the way the stock fits me in particular and the flush magazine and realease is more comfortable for shootin off the knuckles. I think the combination of rifle fit and the right scope set up for you is more important to hitting silhouettes than cutting hair accuracy.

Sendero44 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2004, 09:14:21 AM »

Well in Boy Scouts today they teach you not to run in camp cause their is a chance that you might slip and fall(and get a boobo wawawawaw). So I think I will take a chance and call it a weapon

lucho · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2004, 09:23:08 AM »

I have to agree with davei.

As defined by www.dictionary.com

weapÂ·on Â Â

1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.

Since we are not using our rifles in such a manner they should be be called weapons. I perfer the term firearm.

And sure I think in a way this is being "politically correct" but we need to make firmarms more socially acceptable.

Lucho

ajj · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2004, 09:50:12 AM »

I just prefer being right to being wrong whenever possible. I'm not interested in PC. The antis think we're ALL semi-literate jerks. Nothing I can do about that.

bogey · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2004, 10:18:32 AM »

GBO is a rather broad forum which includes weapons. I did not expect such sensitivity; however, will certainly make a point to avoid such controversial issues in the future. Gee, a simple request for guidance??? And now I'm worried about political correctness for pellet "firearms."

Makes me realize how much I really don't want to utter the words abortion or civil union, especially at silhouette forum.

I give up, no more from me. Will buy a book or something.

chunter · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2004, 10:24:35 AM »

The politicians and lawyers must have taken over... time for a forum change. :excuseme:

davei · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2004, 12:45:12 PM »

ya know what guys... we aren't alone in the world. and... we are in the minority. no point in alienating or pissing people off just on principle. i can think of atleast one gun club that was all but closed strictly based upon their insensitivity to their community. they survived but it cost them of hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it. getting shooters interested and participating in our activities is like preaching to the choir. kind of like passing beans back and forth from one pile to the next. we need new beans. currently non-shooting beans. we need these non-shooting beans to see our activities as viable, non-threatening, and within the realm of consideration. most non-shooting beans that I have introduced to our game have been willing to try shooting a rifle... and just as unlikely to pick up a weapon. all in the presentation my friends.

regarding definition...
i haven't shot anyone with my equipment lately so i'm afraid they fall out of the weapons category. if you, however, have been regularly shooting people with yours then i stand corrected. you indeed have weapons. my apologies.

lastly... damn are you guys sensitive!

dave i.

Sendero44 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2004, 03:28:32 PM »

I restate my previous statment "wawawawawawaawawawaw" go cry me a river dave

bogey · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2004, 03:32:53 PM »

On my honor, I will do my duty to check the dictionary before posting on GBO even though other GBO forums specifically address weapons i.e. "Glock." I don't own a Glock. I do own several firearms which could be weapons and I hunt. I don't really care what the anti's think about my posts on a firearms website. I don't really care what PETA thinks about my hunting. I am not willing to bury my head in the sand and act like I don't shoot (check that word in Webster's) and they can have my silhouette instrument when they pry my cold dead fingers from it.

Happy SHOOTING!

bogey · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2004, 05:24:39 PM »

AJJ,

Hope you can elaborate on Zediker.com since I was unable to locate.

Thanks

davei · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2004, 05:49:37 PM »

http://www.zediker.com/

15turkeys · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2004, 07:22:32 PM »

If you want to get started with air rifle silhouette, the most pfffft for the buck is almost unquestionably a Sporter class rifle. These are off-the-shelf spring powered rifles in sporter stocks. The leading contenders are:

Air Arms TX200
Air Arms ProSport
Beeman HW97

Roughly speaking, these will set you back about US $500. You have to add a scope and mounts. But, importantly, you don't have to add a SCUBA tank setup, which you have to have for Open class and modern Target class rifles. Sporters are not easy to shoot because they are merciless on follow-through. You release the trigger and a heavy piston and spring start moving forward. The rifle starts moving aft. Eventually, the pellet leaves the barrel and you can relax. They are also "hold sensitive" meaning that the point of impact can shift from shot to shot if you hold the rifle differently from shot to shot. But when you learn their ways, you'll find that Sporters are very accurate and their comparatively high velocity gives them an advantage when the wind is blowing.
They are also reasonably quiet, so you can practice at home.

The alternative starter rifle for the cost-conscious shooter is a Target class rifle that doesn't need SCUBA. There are two main choices:

1. Older spring powered rifles such as the FWB 300s and Diana T75.
2. Newer single stroke pneumatics such as the Anschutz 2002 and FWB 601-603.

Used, the former cost roughly US $500 and the latter cost roughly US $800 or $1000. New SSPs cost as much as SCUBA guns. The springers are harder to shoot (hold-sensitive and they recoil), the SSPs are as easy to shoot as SCUBA guns. If there's any breeze, both are harder to score well with than a good Sporter rifle because their ~560fps pellets get pushed around longer than a Sporter's ~900fps pellets. On the other hand, Target rifle stocks can usually be made to fit better than Sporter rifle stocks.

Bill

Bird Dog · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2004, 09:13:40 AM »

I started shooting hunter silhouette about 2.5 years ago and my first rifle was an NS522 (because some one else told me to) After shooting my NS I purchased a Kimber, and a Sako Finnfire, sold the kimber the first mont I had it and stock with the Sako..... I got me a 24" Lilja barrel and last year in 3 straight matches I got bumped to "AAA". The sako/Lilja combination topped with the excellent and adjustable finnfire trigger in my opinion is the best you can get. (I have also shot Anschutz) I recommend getting the finnfire and shoot it as it comes from the factory, then, try to get a Lilja barrel later on.... you will be delighted with this li'l rifle.
:shock:

eroyd · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2004, 09:30:36 AM »

Which Lilja barrel are you Finnfire folks recommending for hunter class? The in stock drop in Sundberg taper is only 21".

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/sako_finnfire_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm

davei · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2004, 09:42:34 AM »

they used to have a 24" Sundberg taper listed on their site. you can still order it. i believe they just carry the 21" taper out to 24"

Bird Dog · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2004, 10:45:34 AM »

If you are not in a big hurry, you can check the Bench rest website and find used 24" Lilja barrels from time to time. That is how i got my two barrels and they both shoot extremely well. (.25 and .3 groups ).
Good luck